Betrayal: Should we hate Judas Iscariot?
- Thread starter gunslingingbird
- Start date
To quote Namreg,
Basically, Judas had no choice in the matter; it was his fate to betray Jesus.
So go easy on the poor sod!
Which goes into one of my biggest arguments with Christians.How does a person have free will if every decision that is made is already known?This is one of the biggest contradictions in Christianity,imo,and one that I've yet to hear a valid response to.
It's pretty simple. God knows everything and does nothing. Doesn't just about everyone know that?
It's kind of interesting that during medieval times they would put on Passion plays dramatizing the death of Jesus to stir up antisemitism by villainizing the Jews and most especially Judas. It was taken back into popularity in Germany in the 1930's and again by Mel Gibson, swell guy.
Off-topic & still On-topic
Concerning god there are 6 options if we take the bible as a source.
1. God knows everything, does everything & is thus evil (our world isn't really the nicest place to live). This means that free will is a lie.
2. God knows everything but does nothing except punishing us when we make the wrong choice. This means we have limited free will, but I can't say it's truely free willl...
Example: You give a small child the choice, eat shit or eat candy. If he eats shit he can play on his/her WII for the rest of the day, if he eats the candy he/she's whipped until there's nothing left of his/her back.
Not really much of a choice & thus not really much free will if you ask me. This would make god a tyrant and thus IMHO evil. Also, since he already knows what will happen, the entire choice is not needed.
3. God is omnipotent & omniscient, but has chosen to limit his omniscience, so that he does not know everything anymore & does not know what will happen next. The same example as in option 2 applies, except for the last sentence. Also, why would anyone willingly dispose his knowledge just so he can do a test?
4. God has never been omniscient (& since his knowledge is limited, so is his power, even if it's only because he doesn't know how to use the full extent of his power). Just like we can control the lives of mice & ants, god can control our lives. I certainly don't hope the mice and ants worship us like gods.
5. We got it all wrong & there are actually multiple gods fighting amongst eachother. If this is the case, then they cannot be omnipotent or omniscient. If they were, they would already know how the fight would end & thus not fight at all or simply destroy eachother with their willpower (or something like that).
6. There is no god.
It's important to determine which of these options is true before we can answer questions concerning Genesis, the last supper, Jesus' death, etc.
Concerning god there are 6 options if we take the bible as a source.
1. God knows everything, does everything & is thus evil (our world isn't really the nicest place to live). This means that free will is a lie.
2. God knows everything but does nothing except punishing us when we make the wrong choice. This means we have limited free will, but I can't say it's truely free willl...
Example: You give a small child the choice, eat shit or eat candy. If he eats shit he can play on his/her WII for the rest of the day, if he eats the candy he/she's whipped until there's nothing left of his/her back.
Not really much of a choice & thus not really much free will if you ask me. This would make god a tyrant and thus IMHO evil. Also, since he already knows what will happen, the entire choice is not needed.
3. God is omnipotent & omniscient, but has chosen to limit his omniscience, so that he does not know everything anymore & does not know what will happen next. The same example as in option 2 applies, except for the last sentence. Also, why would anyone willingly dispose his knowledge just so he can do a test?
4. God has never been omniscient (& since his knowledge is limited, so is his power, even if it's only because he doesn't know how to use the full extent of his power). Just like we can control the lives of mice & ants, god can control our lives. I certainly don't hope the mice and ants worship us like gods.
5. We got it all wrong & there are actually multiple gods fighting amongst eachother. If this is the case, then they cannot be omnipotent or omniscient. If they were, they would already know how the fight would end & thus not fight at all or simply destroy eachother with their willpower (or something like that).
6. There is no god.
It's important to determine which of these options is true before we can answer questions concerning Genesis, the last supper, Jesus' death, etc.
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