2014 FIFA World Cup Brazil
- Thread starter nightwanker
- Start date
tartanterrier
Is somewhere outhere.
Here's hoping they can pull off a shock result
Wouldn't be a shock to me. Jags and Cahill are already having sleepless nights over Suarez and Cavani.
Cavani is way over rated and Saurez won't be at the World Cup. I've heard he is beavering off to the woods to gnaw on logs.
Hows that? His record for Napoli was insane, he's better than 1 in 2 for PSG, he was 7 in 15 for Uruguay last year. Goals pay the rent, and Cavani's incredibly reliable.
He's not Adnan Januzaj and as such is over rated along with Messi.
I thought England was a good team
Landon Donovan has been left off the U.S World Cup roster. I'm shocked. I think Klinsmann made the wrong decision. But I get the sense that there's some tension between Donovan and Klinsmann
We were, but that was nearly 50 years ago.
To be fair England where pretty much a good team up until the mid 90's, In fact I personally think that the Italia 90' team was are best ever team (Well joint best team anyway). I think it's just we are unable to adapt and play players out of position that's why we struggle. The only difference between us and Brazil is that Brazil play quicker and faster especially in the final third, when you look at both teams they're both pretty much equal as far as world class players.
But that's why England are going to struggle because teams these days just sit back soak up the pressure and then hit you on the counter attack with pace.
...and because we have too many bin dippers in the squad.
I think that's bollocks. England have only ever had brief spurts of being any good since the late 60s. Between the major tournaments of '66 and '96 we hardly ever beat any of the better teams of the world. We were shit in the 70s and half the 80s, Bobby Robson stumbled into a good thing in Mexico in '86 with Lineker and Beardsley because Bryan Robson was injured, Ray Wilkins suspended and Mark Hateley couldn't hit a barn door. OK, we qualified for Germany '88, but when we got there, we were shit. OK, we made it to Italia '90...
Italia '90 was our best ever team? Piss on that! There was a good ten year period - during which we WON the World Cup - that it was debated whether England or Brazil were the best team in the world. "Joint best" isn't even close to the truth. You don't get to be "joint best" with a team that wins the sodding World Cup unless you win it too.
Best team since 1966 is up for debate. In terms of achievement, YES, coming 4th clearly marked it out as our best tournament for 24 years then and in the 24 years since. Again, Robson stumbled into success, making the very late call to take Paul Gascoigne, and Platty coming to the fore because the luckless Bryan Robson was again injured. In terms of what they actually did.... couldn't beat Ireland, admittedly played well against the Dutch, shaded it against fucking Egypt, shaded it against Belgium, and were VERY lucky indeed against Cameroon to win two penalties. With some irony the West Germany game was probably the best display we produced... but we lost on penalties.
Under Graham Taylor we were shit, and in the mid 90s under Venables we played no competitive football for three years before Euro 96, where we again flattered to deceive, as we played piss-poor against Switzerland and were lucky Gary Mac missed his penalty in the Scotland game. Yes, we played well against the Dutch team that was falling apart amidst turmoil in their ranks, but we should have been knocked out by Spain who had two perfectly good goals wrongly chalked off for offside. With some irony the Germany game was probably the best display we produced... but we lost on penalties.
That's utter, utter bollocks. You're on the wind up now.
England have ONE world class player, and you don't need me to tell you who that is. If it wasn't for Liverpool suddenly springing back into life, our squad would have hardly any players that command a starting place for teams that contested the top 4 spots in the Prem. None of the big clubs in Spain or Italy are queuing up for anyone English other than Rooney. Our best players don't even dominate our league, never mind any others! Willian, Oscar, Ramires and Fernandinho command starting positions in two of the best teams in the Premier League, and Diego Costa will too next season. They haven't even included David Luiz and Chelsea have just made a boatload of cash on selling him. The Brazil squad is full of players who play for the best teams in all the best leagues in Europe. Most of our players don't even play for the best teams at home.
Last edited:
I said we where good not the greatest thing since sliced bread. Also you don't have to win world cups to be considered the best team in the world (Sure it helps). Look at Germany frankly I think there the best team in the world right now and they haven't won anything for a while.
Oscar is world class but the others ain't, there good but not world class. Don't even get me started on Diego Costa so he scored 30 goals in La Liga, The top 2 teams scored 100 goals each, hell even my mum could score 30 goals in that league for fuck sake. They haven't included David Luiz and rightly so as a midfielder he's ok but he couldn't even defend against Barny the dinosaur. Yes Chelsea sold him, because they realize if someone is stupid enough to pay 50 million for him then there going to take the money and run. Just the same as Liverpool and Torres, who did that decision benefit more? Do you really think Barcelona would ever consider selling Messi or Real Madrid selling Ronaldo, No of course they wouldn't because there world class players who can not be replaced.
You may like to think that Brazil have world class players up and down there squad but the truth is they don't, they've got 1 or 2 just the same as England. The rest of there players sure they are good and probably are better then Englands players. But there is a massive difference between world class and good, a difference that clearly not everybody understands.
So going by Me Stiffy's posts, Bryan RObson was the best English Player during the 80s?
Does that include a period where you failed to qualify for two WC?
Yes it does, Because as I have always said we where a good team NOT the best team in the world.
tartanterrier
Is somewhere outhere.
I don't know if any of you lot are in facebook.I knocked it a while back on here, and then finally decided to give it a go after all these years :1orglaugh
Anyways I came across this page that had all things good about the World Cup and I thought I'd share it...
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brazil-2014-Nightlife/491725854195065
Have fun
Anyways I came across this page that had all things good about the World Cup and I thought I'd share it...
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brazil-2014-Nightlife/491725854195065
Have fun
I know. So I gave you plenty of examples of when we were not only not "good" but positively dreadful.
Of course you don't. The World Cup is only every four years, and the football landscape can dramatically change in 6 months, and within 2 years the reigning World Champions' squad and form can be markedly different from the team that won it. I don't see the relevance to "England were a good team until the mid 90s" or not.
"Truth"? There's no truth in any man's opinions, son. It's subjective. Dani Alves, Thiago Silva, Neymar and Hulk are all world class in my eyes and could command a place in any team in the world. That's what world class means.
And Oscar is in your eyes. That's 5, if I choose to agree with you on Oscar. England don't have "1 or 2", they have 1. On top of the players I've mentioned there, Marcelo, Dante, (Champions League winners both), Ramires and Fernandinho start for some of the best teams in the world. We can't say the same. We have old man Lampard who is basically finished for Chelsea, Gary Cahill, and Milner who sits on City's bench. And Wayne Rooney, who is world class. I'm still dying to hear who else in the England squad is world class. We have nobody else that could play for Bayern, Real or Barcelona. NOBODY. We are a squad of Everton, Southampton and Liverpool, whose resurgence may be a flash in the pan. Phillipe Coutinho would walk into any of the teams that the bulk of our squad is selected from, and Brazil have omitted him. We simply don't match up, man for man.
He was an inspirational leader and captain. In the late 80s you can argue that Lineker's goals made him England's most important player - you could blame the miserable performance in Germany '88 on Lineker's illness - but Robson was the quintessential old-fashioned midfielder ; not "attacking midfielder" or "defensive midfielder" but box to box, helping at both ends and driving the team forward. An England team without Captain Marvel always looked more frail.
Yeah, but what you said WAS :
Results and performances for the best part of 20 years disagree. I suppose performances are subjective ; results are NOT. And we failed miserably for huge periods between '66 and '96.
@MrStiffy - Well your definition of world class differs a lot from mine. My definition is a player that a team cannot win without, someone who can win you games and tournaments when without they wouldn't have a chance (Or people wouldn't expect them to win it). So like Messi, Ronaldo, Pirlo to name a few, I mean Portugal wouldn't have even been at this world cup if it wasn't for Ronaldo. Now to me that's what "World Class" is.
I know we've had bad results which again is why I said we had a good team not the best team. But every team goes through that period that's just the way it is and will continue to be in future. Look at Spain they've always been a good team they've missed out on world cups, Hell they even lost to Switzerland last time, Doesn't mean there a bad team just they had a bad day at the office.
The point I was trying to make by saying we had a good team up until the 90's, was that we've always had a team that's been good enough and capable enough of winning it. But being England we always find a way to balls it up (Namely penalties).
I know we've had bad results which again is why I said we had a good team not the best team. But every team goes through that period that's just the way it is and will continue to be in future. Look at Spain they've always been a good team they've missed out on world cups, Hell they even lost to Switzerland last time, Doesn't mean there a bad team just they had a bad day at the office.
The point I was trying to make by saying we had a good team up until the 90's, was that we've always had a team that's been good enough and capable enough of winning it. But being England we always find a way to balls it up (Namely penalties).
Don't @ me kid, we aren't on Twatter.
I don't even agree that there can be different definitions of "world class." World class means that their level (or "class") is "world" level, i.e. among the best in the world.
That's fundamentally flawed. That implies that if a team has their best player injured or suspended for the World Cup final but still wins it, he can't be considered world class because they were able to win without him. That's bullshit - it just means that the squad was strong enough to win without him, and very few teams that are that dependent on a single player ever win tournaments.
What about Sweden? They won't win a game in the World Cup, they haven't even made it. Does that mean Zlatan Ibrahimovic isn't world class because he hasn't been able to win them enough of the big games (that without him they REALLY they wouldn't have a chance) ? Or is it because he IS a world class player, but surrounded by substandard ones? Or Wales? They have Gareth Bale, but still struggle to win any qualifying games. Are you going to tell me Bale isn't world class?
I see now why you must think England have multiple world class players... because the squad is so piss weak that games they would have won with the best 11 suddenly become disappointing draws with mediocre teams when they have to rely on some of the dross on the bench. By your definition, that makes the slightly-above-average players we're forced to pick, "world class."
In that case, I have no idea what England team you have been watching. Shit for the best part of 15 years after 1970, four painfully average years with one horrific tournament in the middle, three good weeks in Italy then shit for another three years, three years of no competitive internationals (so who cares, right?) and a decent three weeks in Euro '96.
The team that went to Mexico in '70 was good enough to have won it, arguably even better than the squad of '66. And if I'm feeling generous, I'll concede that having been LUCKY to have made the semis of Italia '90, the team had grown into one good enough to win it, and played well enough against West Germany to suggest they may have been favourites in a final against Argentina, if they'd been able to take a better penalty. It's a far cry from "good until the mid 90s" or "always had a team that's been capable enough of winning it."
We won't agree. But I'll agree that I'd have had more faith in any of the squads from 1970, 1982, 1986 or 1990 than I do in the one of 2014.
Last edited:
I am not taking 1 single game into consideration I'm taking the whole tournament. Yes of course if Messi was injured for the final Argentina could still win it, it's just one game. But if you take Messi out for the whole tournament pretty much nobody would expect Argentina to win it. Why do you think everybody is worrying about Ronaldo in Portugal? Because everybody knows without him they haven't got a cat in hells chance.
Point out to me where I said England have multiple world class players? I said they where pretty much equal. As far as I'm concerned England have Gerrard and Brazil have Neymar and Oscar.
Take Ibrahimovic out of Sweden would people still expect Sweden to qualify and do really well, probably not. But with him, yeah they could. Take Dani Alves out of Brazil would people think they could still win, yeah.
Point out to me where I said England have multiple world class players? I said they where pretty much equal. As far as I'm concerned England have Gerrard and Brazil have Neymar and Oscar.
Take Ibrahimovic out of Sweden would people still expect Sweden to qualify and do really well, probably not. But with him, yeah they could. Take Dani Alves out of Brazil would people think they could still win, yeah.
