They will start the cycle that the smaller market teams all use to stay competitive. They trade away the higher price players for prospects that arent quite ready for the big leagues but will most likely be sucessful. The Marlins do this, as do the A's. They save money by getting rid of the big price tags in favor of smaller ones, the trade off is often imediate talent. These teams have to do it because they dont put butts in the seats like the big city teams, its the only way they can stay close to the black.
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2008 MLB Thread
- Thread starter senob44
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They will start the cycle that the smaller market teams all use to stay competitive. They trade away the higher price players for prospects that arent quite ready for the big leagues but will most likely be sucessful. The Marlins do this, as do the A's. They save money by getting rid of the big price tags in favor of smaller ones, the trade off is often imediate talent. These teams have to do it because they dont put butts in the seats like the big city teams, its the only way they can stay close to the black.
Exactly.
The Marlins are pretty darn good at this too.
I think they will definetly be competitive next year.
ChefChiTown
The secret ingredient? MY BALLS
I'm not saying that he's an over-achiever. I'm just saying that he's a rookie and rookies are hard to figure out. A lot of the times, rookies get a decent amount of success from being unknown to the league. Nobody really knows how to pitch to them (if they're a fielder) and nobody knows how to hit them (if they're a pitcher). And no, not every single rookie that has success will suck ass the following year, but I'm willing to bet that it happens more often than not.
The thing that I see in Longoria that makes me believe that me might not to be able to follow up on his success next year...he's a rookie. You can't look at rookies, who have never played before and have no proven track record, and get an honest read on how good they really are. I'm a die hard White Sox fan and I've had the pleasure of seeing Alexei Ramirez play this year. He did really well, but I'm not confident that he's going to be all that great next year. Why? Because he's a rookie and anything can happen.
Just to give you an example of what I'm trying to say, I'll list some players from recent history, that had pretty good rookie seasons (by rookie standards), were noted to be an up-and-coming star by analysts, fans and experts, but, couldn't follow up on it...
(just off the top of my head)
Troy Tulowitzki
Reggie Willits
Carlos Ruiz
Melky Cabrera
Billy Butler
Philip Hughes
Homer Bailey
Ronny Paulino
Joel Zumaya
Matt Cain
Josh Barfield
Chuck James
Scott Olsen
Where are those "stars" now? :dunno:
Once again, Longoria could end up being a career long phenom, but I wouldn't jump on his bandwagon just quite yet. Once he puts 3 or 4 good seasons under his belt, then I'll say that he's a rock-solid success.
Many of those guys have had to deal with injury though.
Carlos Ruiz is a catcher and by all means he is a star at catcher. He cant hit worth a damn but then again catchers arent suppose to be hitters. When being devoloped, they preach defense first.
Many of those guys are also pitchers. Now it is very rare for a pitcher to have such early success. Scott Olsen is still very young and learning how to pitch through a big league season aswell as learning how to pitch in the big leagues.
All I am saying is players like Longoria dont come around all that often, offensively, you know 30 homeruns (had 27 but if he didnt get injured, I am going to assume), 30 doubles, so on and so fourth...this guys are USUALLY legit.
Of course if he cant stay healthy thats a different story, but I am just assuming he can stay healthy.
Carlos Ruiz is a catcher and by all means he is a star at catcher. He cant hit worth a damn but then again catchers arent suppose to be hitters. When being devoloped, they preach defense first.
Many of those guys are also pitchers. Now it is very rare for a pitcher to have such early success. Scott Olsen is still very young and learning how to pitch through a big league season aswell as learning how to pitch in the big leagues.
All I am saying is players like Longoria dont come around all that often, offensively, you know 30 homeruns (had 27 but if he didnt get injured, I am going to assume), 30 doubles, so on and so fourth...this guys are USUALLY legit.
Of course if he cant stay healthy thats a different story, but I am just assuming he can stay healthy.
This is probably off-topic, even for this thread, but does anyone think Cole Hamels looks and sounds a little bit like Jimmie Johnson?
ChefChiTown
The secret ingredient? MY BALLS
Ruiz is pretty good. I think the one thing that sells him as being a decent catcher is his CS% (Caught Stealing %). It's always been a "rule of thumb" that decent catchers will throw out around 30% of all runners who try and steal a base on them. Ruiz had a great rookie year, throwing out around 50% (I believe) and had a pretty decent season this year as well (around 30%).
Personally, I think the reason that a lot of younger pitchers have a hard time finding success during their first year or two is because they aren't given the opportunity to develop. They get thrown into 10 or 12 games (assuming they're a starter) and get judged solely on those limited performances. I believe that if they would get more opportunities when they first come out of AAA, they would improve a lot faster.
True, it is a rare thing to see a rookie put up those kind of numbers. But, how many of them can follow up with continuous seasons of that caliber? :dunno:
The NASCAR driver? :dunno:
Ruiz is a decent catcher, apparently his staff loves to throw to him, hes had a rough year at the plate. He has some guys who have some slow deliveries and that has caused some problems throwing out hitters. He has admitted many of his problems especially at the plate are due to the fact that is mother is very ill, Im sure that could be a bit distracting. He comes up with some clutch hits at times and has been hitting pretty good during the playoffs.
I think it is you :1orglaugh
I dont think he looks anything like Jimmie Johnson.
I agree with the pitchers. A lot of times these pitchers who have big names coming up are only projected to be bottom of the rotation guys anyways.
But I do agree with you on the developement of pitchers. I mean look at the Reds with Home Bailey. Kershaw could have probably used some more development aswell, but I guess it depends on the person. If a guy can put aside the rough outings, then he can be developed in the big leagues, but if a guy has a fragial pshycy and he gets rouged up he may never rebound.
I agree with the fragile egos and with todays money making major league ball players ego is a big thing. But teams have to do whats best for their organization. The Phillies sent Myers down to AA and AAA for about a month to get is stuff back and Ive never seen a player with more head problems than Myers. He came back up with something to prove and pitched lights out for the rest of the season.
I think that the Rays pitchers may have a problem with the fans in Philadelphia because they can be brutal and that can get into a younger pitchers head. I know this was awhile ago, but Royals starting pitcher Rich Gale who started game 6 of the 1980 World Series said that when he got into a funk early in that game the fans really got into his head and he began to second guess pitches.
The Marlins are a mediocre organization. Two postseason apperances in their entire history, and yes, they managed to win two championships. To an uninformed fan that might seem like a successful franchise, but it's not. The Yankees of the '90s and early 21st century were a successful franchise because they made the playoffs every year and won several championships and had asses in the seats the whole time. The Red Sox of the 21st century are a successful franchise for the same reasons. The Braves of the '90s were a successful franchise, even though they only won one championship. A team should strive to be like those teams.
A team should never strive to be like the Marlins. Win a World Series, then dump off all your talent and wait five years for all of your high draft picks to accumulate, making you a good team once again. Then start the same cycle all over again. Hanley Ramirez won't be a Marlin for life. And Kazmir, Shields, Longoria, Pena, Upton, etc. won't be Rays for life. And, again, they won't have high draft picks anymore and they'll never have asses in the seats.
Yes, and thats very rare to begin with.
Organizations dont like to send players down when they are making millions. They would rather have them figure it out at the big league level.
Yes and they also have a lot higher payroll which means they can go out and buy players. Which they obviously did. Or they can sign their young talent, who have become stars.
Not all teams have the luxury of doing this.
You try and make it sound so easy, when things obviously dont work that way.
ChefChiTown
The secret ingredient? MY BALLS
Here's a question...
I will compare the Rays to the New England Patriots for this scenario. Last year, the Patriots went undefeated and had, arguably, one of the best regular seasons and one of the most remarkable stories in the history of football. When they made it to the championship game (Super Bowl), they were defeated. After they lost the Super Bowl, even though they had one of the most unbelievable regular seasons in history, it seemed as if people forgot what the Patriots had accomplished. They lost the championship and all focus shifted to the New York Giants, causing people to completely dismiss what the Patriots had done during the regular season.
If the Rays lose the World Series, do you think the same will happen to them?
They have had one of the more fan-friendly stories in recent history and everybody has fallen in love with the Rays. Personally, I think that if they lose the World Series, it will completely erase everything that they've done up until now. People will instantly revert to their original feelings about the Rays and their franchise...they suck.
If the Rays lose, it won't be "aww, poor Tampa Bay", it will be "we told you so". IMO, the only thing that will prevent people from instantly forgetting about the Rays will be either a World Series victory, or a hard fought, 7 game series that they lose at the last moment. Other than that, they have to win this series in order to even be remembered.
I will compare the Rays to the New England Patriots for this scenario. Last year, the Patriots went undefeated and had, arguably, one of the best regular seasons and one of the most remarkable stories in the history of football. When they made it to the championship game (Super Bowl), they were defeated. After they lost the Super Bowl, even though they had one of the most unbelievable regular seasons in history, it seemed as if people forgot what the Patriots had accomplished. They lost the championship and all focus shifted to the New York Giants, causing people to completely dismiss what the Patriots had done during the regular season.
If the Rays lose the World Series, do you think the same will happen to them?
They have had one of the more fan-friendly stories in recent history and everybody has fallen in love with the Rays. Personally, I think that if they lose the World Series, it will completely erase everything that they've done up until now. People will instantly revert to their original feelings about the Rays and their franchise...they suck.
If the Rays lose, it won't be "aww, poor Tampa Bay", it will be "we told you so". IMO, the only thing that will prevent people from instantly forgetting about the Rays will be either a World Series victory, or a hard fought, 7 game series that they lose at the last moment. Other than that, they have to win this series in order to even be remembered.
I never said it was easy, what I said was the the Rays don't have what it takes to sustain prolonged success. I have yet to stand corrected.
Nice throw by Upton to double up Victorino.
ChefChiTown
The secret ingredient? MY BALLS
That was a good throw, but if Victorino knew how to slide, he would've scored. Am I the only one who notices how terrible the sliding skill is in the majors? Seriously, most players are terrible sliders and fuck themselves by not getting better at it. Case in point...Victorino.
Some guys do a pretty nice job though.
I especially like the one from CoCo Crisp. If he slides into the bag he is safe by a mile, but he went for the take out and was out.
ChefChiTown
The secret ingredient? MY BALLS
Yeah, that was kind of a dumb play that he made. I mean, good intentions were there, but...just tag the base!!!
Is anyone else getting tired of BJ Upton being talked about like he's some sort of POWER HITTER? He had 9 HRs all year long and he's only been on a decent hitting streak for the past few games. It's so annoying how all of the announcers talk as if he's Mark McGwire and that a HR is a big possibility with each of his at bats. No, he's BJ Upton and he hit 9 HRs all year long.
