When did you decide to be heterosexual?

[Marlo Manson]

I had my 1st girlfriend in elementry school, she lived around the block and I loved being with her!! :bowdown:

and I have been addicted to girls as long as I can remember things, I also had a neighbor that was sexy for a young girl my age, we used make out listening to KISS records!!

 

[Portillo]

I have to agree that it's not something you choose to be but just what you are. So I should say I realized I was hetero when I really wanted to look up girls' skirts, I was 10.

 

[ChefChiTown]

That's not entirely true. Reproduction is a basic instinct. Even plants are aware of the basics. They may not understand it, but that is another matter. Animals don't need to be told who to have sex with or how to do it, they seem to be fairly good at figuring it out on their own.

Right, they figure it out as time goes by, which means that they didn't know what it was when they were born. Otherwise, there wouldn't be anything to figure out.

Are humans born with certain involuntary responses? Absolutely; breathing, blinking, muscle movement, etc. Nobody can deny that. But, when you're born, you don't know how to walk, you don't know how to talk, you don't know how to feed yourself, etc. You learn all of that as you grow.

That's a straw man. Bikes and Spagehetti are man made.

Who cares if it's man made or not? When you're born, you still don't know what either of those things are.

The grass isn't man made, but when you're born, you don't know what it is. Rain isn't man made, but when you're born, you don't know what it is. So...:dunno:

That's not true at all. Babies know to follow you with their eyes. To grab your fingers. To suckle. Nature and Nuture.

I stated before that people are born with certain involuntary responses and those are examples of that.

I didn't have to be taught to get aroused. I didn't have to be taught to be hungry or thirsty.

But, you had to learn how to satisfy those cravings. You had to learn how to eat, how to drink and how to "pleasure yourself".

Environment plays a large role in development, but some things are up to nature.

In your opinion, what makes homosexuality a part of nature?

I mean, if nature is telling you to live your life a certain way, then is my ability to cook a gift from nature? Is my ability to type 100 words per minute a gift from nature? Is my set of morals a gift from nature? Are my religious beliefs/disbeliefs a gift from nature?

:dunno:

I think pedophiles are probably born that way. Possibly stemming from an evolutionary advantage of getting girls younger and younger. Maybe not. Ultimately, it's up to them to control themselves, and if they cannot then it's our duty as a society to dispose of them.

So, you think that pedophiles are probably born that way, but you also say that it's up to them to control themselves. Why don't you say that about gay people?

That contradicts your argument by saying so.

Do you think homosexuality is morally wrong? Not that you've say anything to indicate where as, just wondering.

I don't think homosexuality is morally wrong, no. Do I agree with the lifestyle? No, I don't. But, I don't think that it's wrong, in any way, shape or form.

Just so there is no confusion: Somebody in a different thread asked me to explain myself once when I said "I don't agree with it", so I will repeat myself here...

Personally, I don't enjoy the idea of being gay. I don't like anything about it, but I don't look down on people who have that life. Just like I don't enjoy getting beaten with chains and whips while I have sex, but I don't look down on people who do. Hence, I don't agree with it.

 

[jamrak]

when I first saw a beautifull sexy chick with great legs and a wonderfull ass - kind of a treasure, with round sexy tits, sexy coloured lips and long nice hairs, I decided: this is the gender to fuck with!

and hell yes, I was right

 

[Imagine]

Right, they figure it out as time goes by, which means that they didn't know what it was when they were born. Otherwise, there wouldn't be anything to figure out.

Are humans born with certain involuntary responses? Absolutely; breathing, blinking, muscle movement, etc. Nobody can deny that. But, when you're born, you don't know how to walk, you don't know how to talk, you don't know how to feed yourself, etc. You learn all of that as you grow.

You took that far too literally. The point is, they don't discover sex by accident, and they are not taught how it works. If there was no instinct there to begin with, there would be no incentive to discover the gory details. Even insects know about sex, and they are generally not considered to have the level of abstraction required for social influence to affect them.

So, you think that pedophiles are probably born that way, but you also say that it's up to them to control themselves. Why don't you say that about gay people?

That contradicts your argument by saying so.

Not really. Whether someone is born with a certain behavior pattern or not has nothing to do with whether this behavior is desirable. Control in this case would refer to restraining yourself from doing something that is considered bad/immoral/harmful in a given community, i.e. choosing not to act on the impulses you have. That is vastly different from choosing not to have these impulses.

 

[DC1989]

when i was born......probably like everybody else

 

[drew84]

I didn't decide cause in my opinion sexual orientation is not a choice but it's how you feel and who you are attracted to both sexually and romantically. I knew for years I was straight and have always been attracted to women. I have no problem at all with people who are gay or bi, even though I loads loads of friends who are straight I also have loads of gay friends and bisexual friends. I never treat any of my friends different no matter what their sexual orientation is. We are all human no matter what our sexual orientation is.

 

[ChefChiTown]

You took that far too literally. The point is, they don't discover sex by accident, and they are not taught how it works. If there was no instinct there to begin with, there would be no incentive to discover the gory details. Even insects know about sex, and they are generally not considered to have the level of abstraction required for social influence to affect them.

So, if I grew up in the middle of a forest and I had no contact with other human beings for years and years and years, do you honestly think that I would know how to have sex? Do you think that I would know who to have sex with? Do you think that I would know that I'm supposed to put my penis inside of a vagina?

No, I wouldn't. Why? Because you need to be taught how to do those things.

You learn from your surroundings and you develop your personality, likes, dislikes, sense of humor, morals, beliefs (etc) by soaking up what you have learned and coming to your own conclusion on who you want to be.

Not really. Whether someone is born with a certain behavior pattern or not has nothing to do with whether this behavior is desirable. Control in this case would refer to restraining yourself from doing something that is considered bad/immoral/harmful in a given community, i.e. choosing not to act on the impulses you have. That is vastly different from choosing not to have these impulses.

Societally, being gay is often viewed as being bad, immoral and wrong in a lot of communities. So...:dunno:

 

[Imagine]

So, if I grew up in the middle of a forest and I had no contact with other human beings for years and years and years, do you honestly think that I would know how to have sex? Do you think that I would know who to have sex with? Do you think that I would know that I'm supposed to put my penis inside of a vagina?

No, I wouldn't. Why? Because you need to be taught how to do those things.

No, you wouldn't. The exact mechanics are something that you discover. The basic urge however, is not. You may not know what it is that you're missing, but you will know that there is something.

You learn from your surroundings and you develop your personality, likes, dislikes, sense of humor, morals, beliefs (etc) by soaking up what you have learned and coming to your own conclusion on who you want to be.

Yes, but that still doesn't rule out biological factors in all of these things. Learning is based on perception, and perception is based on how your brain reacts to stimuli.

Societally, being gay is often viewed as being bad, immoral and wrong in a lot of communities. So...

So... what? Is a man gay if he choose sex with another man despite being repulsed by it? Is he not if he choose not to have sex with another man despite having an overwhelming urge to? If you define sexuality based on your actions as opposed to your desires, then yes, I suppose being gay is a choice. That's a very superficial way of looking at it though.

You still haven't given me a satisfying answer to the following though. If we were to assume that biology had nothing to do with it (something which most psychologists and biologists disagree with from what I have seen) and that being gay is the result of your environment; is it an actual choice? When exactly is sexuality determined during the upbringing?

 

[TwatDetective]

Who cares if it's man made or not? When you're born, you still don't know what either of those things are.

If you don't get the difference between instincts, and learning how to use made made products then there's really no point.

The grass isn't man made, but when you're born, you don't know what it is. Rain isn't man made, but when you're born, you don't know what it is. So...:dunno:

Yes but we are biologically programmed to feel terror if we see a wolf's face.

But, you had to learn how to satisfy those cravings. You had to learn how to eat, how to drink and how to "pleasure yourself".

Yep, but I didn't have to learn to have to those cravings.

In your opinion, what makes homosexuality a part of nature?

But probably only accidently. From DNA or probably, more likely, during fetal development.

I mean, if nature is telling you to live your life a certain way, then is my ability to cook a gift from nature? Is my ability to type 100 words per minute a gift from nature? Is my set of morals a gift from nature? Are my religious beliefs/disbeliefs a gift from nature?

I believe all there is is the brain Everything we believe first came from a human though brain. Whether good hand eye coordination. Or humans likely to believe what other tell you.

So, you think that pedophiles are probably born that way, but you also say that it's up to them to control themselves. Why don't you say that about gay people?

That contradicts your argument by saying so.

Because homosexuality is between two consenting adults.

 

[ChefChiTown]

So... what? Is a man gay if he choose sex with another man despite being repulsed by it? Is he not if he choose not to have sex with another man despite having an overwhelming urge to? If you define sexuality based on your actions as opposed to your desires, then yes, I suppose being gay is a choice. That's a very superficial way of looking at it though.

You were saying that pedophiles could control their actions, so why aren't you saying the same for homosexuals? They both have their own unique sexual desires and attractions, so why defend one, but not the other?

You still haven't given me a satisfying answer to the following though. If we were to assume that biology had nothing to do with it (something which most psychologists and biologists disagree with from what I have seen) and that being gay is the result of your environment; is it an actual choice? When exactly is sexuality determined during the upbringing?

That's an impossible question to answer because everybody is different.

But, yes, you would still be left with a choice. Your environment, as limiting as it may seem, provides you with options. You, as an individual, are the one who chooses which option(s) you are going to take.

 

[ChefChiTown]

If you don't get the difference between instincts, and learning how to use made made products then there's really no point.

I'm glad you keep bringing up "man made" things, because it made me think of something that I would like to ask all of the people who claim that homosexuality has nothing to do with choice, but everything to do with nature and genetics...

If people are born as homosexuals and it is 100% not their decision (as it is how nature made them) then explain people who have a sexual attraction to transexuals.

Transexuals are man-made; nature has nothing to do with it. Hormone injections, breast implants and other plastic surgeries are purely man-made and completely unnatural. So, explain to me how nature can make somebody sexually attracted to something that nature doesn't even know exists.

:2 cents:

 

[Imagine]

You were saying that pedophiles could control their actions, so why aren't you saying the same for homosexuals? They both have their own unique sexual desires and attractions, so why defend one, but not the other?

I didn't think I had to, but alright. Homosexuals can control their actions. It is not relevant though. For everyone, whether you're sexually attracted to people of the same sex, kids, animals or iron ore, the choice lies in whether you act on an urge that you have, not if you have these urges or not. I'm fairly certain that everyone have urges that they don't act on, which is evident by some of the things people do when drunk or high, when self-restraint is lower.

That's an impossible question to answer because everybody is different.

But, yes, you would still be left with a choice. Your environment, as limiting as it may seem, provides you with options. You, as an individual, are the one who chooses which option(s) you are going to take.

So you don't know when sexuality is determined, yet you conclude that it must be sufficiently late for the individual to have developed enough to make an active choice. How exactly did you do that? How does this explain homosexual behavior in animals who supposedly are not sapient, such as the evolutionary biologist's best friend; the fruit fly? Speaking of which, what about the ability to trigger homosexuality in fruit flies by manipulating the GB gene?

 

[ChefChiTown]

So you don't know when sexuality is determined, yet you conclude that it must be sufficiently late for the individual to have developed enough to make an active choice. How exactly did you do that? How does this explain homosexual behavior in animals who supposedly are not sapient, such as the evolutionary biologist's best friend; the fruit fly? Speaking of which, what about the ability to trigger homosexuality in fruit flies by manipulating the GB gene?

:whispers:

People aren't insects.

 

[Imagine]

No, but we are animals. Or are you part of the crowd that believe that in a few thousand years, we've magically transcended millions of years of biology somehow? If a simple organism can be manipulated by simple methods, why exactly is it so hard to believe that a more complex organism could not be manipulated by more complex methods?

 

[ChefChiTown]

No, but we are animals. Or are you part of the crowd that believe that in a few thousand years, we've magically transcended millions of years of biology somehow? If a simple organism can be manipulated by simple methods, why exactly is it so hard to believe that a more complex organism could not be manipulated by more complex methods?

Technically, yes...we are animals. But, to compare human beings to a fruit fly is ridiculous.

 

[Spleen]

It was the same day I decided to give up rollerblading.

 

[BlueBalls]

Technically, yes...we are animals. But, to compare human beings to a fruit fly is ridiculous.

That example is only at the research phase and yes we as humans are much more complex beings, but what this research does show is that a change in the genetic makeup can produce a reaction. Now in the future will scientists be able to find the "gay" gene in humans who knows, but there are a number of theories out there some of which have been proven theoretically that state that homosexuality is probably an X linked inhereted trait (this only accounts for male homosexuality though). But this is always how discoveries are made you start small and work your way up.

http://general-medicine.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/1993/806/1

 

[Imagine]

Technically, yes...we are animals. But, to compare human beings to a fruit fly is ridiculous.

Not more ridiculous than ignoring the fact that the sexuality of an animal can be modified that easily simply by altering a gene. It's even possible to drug them to turn it on and off as you please. We may be more advanced versions, but we share the same basic architecture. The human DNA is for the most part unexplored, and that doesn't even take the myriad of other potential biological factors into account, yet you seem to discount this as a significant factor, or even a factor at all. I want to know exactly what you base this conclusion on.

 

[stampede2873]

Is it me... or is this thread getting HEEEEEEE - TED!!!

I already gave my :2 cents: