Ukraine

Jagger69

Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Kennedy removed our ballistic missiles from Turkey.

True. However, in the final analysis, the Soviets backed down. Getting US missiles out of Turkey was not the aim of sending nuclear missiles to Cuba. It was, however, a convenient means for Khrushchev to save face and, ultimately, no small victory from a revisionist standpoint. Those missiles were parked right on Russia's doorstep....across from Crimea in fact!

I have been to Belarus, some of my Belarusian friends have told me Belarus was the most Soviet republic that made up the USSR. Alexander Lukashenko is just like Putin, and he's loves Russia. Lukashenko usually gets whatever he wants from the Kremlin. Russia has a close relationship with Kazakhstan. Belarus and Kazakhstan are Collective Security Treaty Organization members. Russia basically controls their airspace. Kazakhstan has a very balanced foreign policy of being cooperative with all the world's major powers.

I don't doubt any of this for a minute. More dominoes are bound to fall before this is over.
 
This was broadcast on Russian state-controlled TV by Rossiya 1 news channel anchor Dmitry Kiselyov during which he states (in front of a mushroom cloud backdrop) that Russia is the only nation on earth that can turn the USA into "radioactive dust".

Dmitri Kiselov is not a news achor. He is the head of this channel, appinted by Putin himself 3 months ago...
 

Jagger69

Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Dmitri Kiselov is not a news achor. He is the head of this channel, appinted by Putin himself 3 months ago...

OK....technically a matter of semantics since he was acting as a commentator in the video but even more telling and frightening to know that what you stated is true.
 
Here old little Finnish sketch which is fitting pretty well to this current situation with Russian vs. The World. (click subtitles on, they are tranlated properly enough for this video).

 
OK....technically a matter of semantics since he was acting as a commentator in the video but even more telling and frightening to know that what you stated is true.
Yeah, even liberals can be true, sometimes ;)
I don't think it's only a matter of semantic. The guy was hired by Putin himself, he refers only to the Russian governement, then when we can consider that he speaks for Putin, the words he uses have ben choosen by Putin. Putin's the brain, this guy's the mouth.
 

Jagger69

Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Yeah, even liberals can be true, sometimes ;)
I don't think it's only a matter of semantic. The guy was hired by Putin himself, he refers only to the Russian governement, then when we can consider that he speaks for Putin, the words he uses have ben choosen by Putin. Putin's the brain, this guy's the mouth.

Not to split hairs, but I was speaking of the article's use of the term "anchor man". Call him what you will. My reference in that context was unquestionably a matter of semantics. The real meaning of the point you are making gets clouded if we argue what moniker he should have. It's superfluous in the grander scheme of things. I'm sure the words he speaks have been sanctioned by Putin himself as you state and that is the true importance of his commentary.
 

Ace Boobtoucher

Founder and Captain of the Douchepatrol
Back to the Cold War mentality. I remember the duck and cover drills in grade school. I developed ulcers in the fifth grade because I worried Des Moines was going to become a nuclear wasteland. Then "The Day After" aired and I nearly had to be strapped down. The way things are going now kind of give me the same feels. Looking back, and after hearing about the Soviets actual capabilities, we learned Mutual Assured Destruction was never going to happen. Hindsight is awesome.

But that was thirty-some-odd years back and now we have a gaping lack of leadership in the U.S. especially when it comes to foreign relations. Any response from Dear Leader and Lurch is just going to be met with derision. Vlad is laughing his balls off at the sanctions imposed. The Moscow Stock Market actually spiked after Obama's weak-ass address.


how to take screenshots
 
The Soviets were behind in missile technology during most of the Cold War, but spend enormous amounts of money on fixing that liability. By the early 1980s, the Soviets developed the SS-20, R-36, and UR-100N missiles. The U. S. did not have any equivalent weapons. If the Soviet Union hadn't dissolved, the Yakovlev Yak-141 would've been the first operational supersonic VTOL fighter in service. Lockheed Martin should give thanks to Yakovlev for winning the Joint Strike Fighter contract which became the F-35.
 
We don't want a wall built between Ukraine and Russia, this provocation needs to be stopped, leave Russia and Ukraine alone
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
What's happening in Ukraine is unfortunate. But as I said before, unless and until Putin actually threatens a U.S. interest, (IMO) we need to stop thinking of ourselves as the world's policeman. There are bad things and bad people all around the world. There is poverty, famine and war all around the world. There is now. There was before. There will be in the near and distant future. There are countries that have flaunted international law and the UN for decades (Israel is a prime example). There are countries that have invaded other sovereign nations on false pretenses (U.S. in Iraq). I don't think any of that means that we should do (absolutely) nothing. But it does mean that the U.S. and the American people have no unique or particular moral high ground to stand on here.

Once again, I FULLY agree with Ron Paul. Preach it, brother... preach it!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Ron Paul: Crimea secedes. So what?

Residents of Crimea voted over the weekend on whether they would remain an autonomous region of Ukraine or join the Russian Federation. In so doing, they joined a number of countries and regions — including recently Scotland, Catalonia and Venice — that are seeking to secede from what they view as unresponsive or oppressive governments.

These latter three are proceeding without much notice, while the overwhelming Crimea vote to secede from Ukraine has incensed U.S. and European Union officials, and has led NATO closer to conflict with Russia than since the height of the Cold War.

Why does the U.S. care which flag will be hoisted on a small piece of land thousands of miles away?

Critics point to the Russian "occupation" of Crimea as evidence that no fair vote could have taken place. Where were these people when an election held in an Iraq occupied by U.S. troops was called a "triumph of democracy"?
 
^^^^ True

IMO, we came up with a bunch of chump up claims on Iraq about WMD, and after trashing the place we never found them. Now that country is worst off despite all of Hussien's treachery on his people.
 

Philbert

Banned
^^^^ True

IMO, we came up with a bunch of chump up claims on Iraq about WMD, and after trashing the place we never found them. Now that country is worst off despite all of Hussien's treachery on his people.

At least you got ONE thing right. A new record for you...

CHUMP
 
Russian stocks down as banks suffer amid sanctions
Associated Press By NATALIYA VASILYEVA

MOSCOW (AP) — Russia conceded Friday that it may scrap plans to tap international markets for money this year as it counts the cost of the sanctions imposed in the wake of the annexation of Crimea.

Fears over Russia's economic outlook have ratcheted up this week as the country absorbed Crimea following Sunday's hastily called referendum which overwhelmingly supported the move. The West considers the vote illegitimate and has slapped on sanctions in response.

The sanctions are already being felt on the streets of Russia as Visa and MasterCard stopped serving two Russian banks, a day after the U.S. ordered sanctions against two dozen people from President Vladimir Putin's entourage.

Russian shares continued to falter Friday, and the benchmark MICEX index was down 2 percent in late afternoon trading. The Russian stock market has lost than more 10 percent this month amid growing tensions between Russia and the West.

In comments carried by Russian news agencies, Russia's Finance Minister Anton Siluanov became the first Russian official to admit to an economic fallout from the sanctions.

Siluanov said the country may scrap plans to raise $7 billion worth of bonds this year if oil and gas revenues remain steady. Moscow "may decide to give up external borrowing," he said.

The economic sanctions ordered on Thursday by President Barack Obama targeted 20 people, including Putin's chief of staff and four influential businessmen who are believed to be his lifelong friends, and also a major Russian bank that provides them support.

Two Russian banks, including Bank Rossiya, the Russian lender which was put on the Treasury's sanctions list, said Visa and MasterCard have stopped providing services to them. U.S. officials described Russia's 15th largest bank with $12 billion in assets as a "personal bank for senior officials of the Russian Federation."

And clients of another Russian lender, SMP, woke up Friday to discover that their bank cards are not as useful as they were. In a statement, it said Visa and MasterCard stopped providing their services "without prior notification." SMP's co-owners, Arkady and Boris Rotenberg — billionaire brothers and childhood friends of Putin — were hit by the U.S. sanctions.

The bank, which is in Russia's top 40 with $5 billion in assets, said it had no assets in the United States and described Visa and MasterCard's actions as "illegitimate" because the bank, unlike its owners, was not covered by the sanctions.

As a result, customers in the two banks won't be able to use cards backed by Visa and MasterCard to buy products in shops online or withdraw cash from ATMs beyond their own bank's. They can also get cash directly inside their banks' branches.

Putin has ordered the country's central bank to help clients of Rossiya. As well as denying he had an account there, he ordered the Central Bank to "take the bank's clients under protection and provide all possible assistance to them."

Describing Rossiya, which was rumored to serve nearly everyone in Putin's close entourage, as "just an average bank," Putin said he had never had an account there, but promised to open one "first thing on Monday" and asked for his salary to be transferred there.

Russia's central bank earlier said that the blacklisting of Rossiya and its transactions by the U.S. "does not have a serious bearing on the lender's financial stability."

Fitch warned that the sanctions could weigh on Russia's economy as it followed Standard & Poor's in warning Russia that it may have its credit rating downgraded. In a statement, Fitch said it has revised down its outlook for Russia's debt to reflect the potential impact of sanctions on Russia's economy.


"Since U.S. and EU banks and investors may well be reluctant to lend to Russia under the current circumstances, the economy may slow further and the private sector may require official support," Fitch said.

Lower ratings are important because it can make a country's borrowing costs more expensive. Fitch operates a 23-notch rating system and Russia's BBB rating ranks ninth on that scale, two above what is considered to be junk status.
 
Russia's economy is not in dire straits like the Western news media proclaims. Russians will pay higher prices for goods and services because of inflation. The Western Europe his hooked on Russian oil for foreseeable future. The Western leadership is playing with fire with their economic sanctions on Russia. If Russia stops its natural gas to most of Eastern and Western Europe, their economies would collapse. Russians have been through an economic collapse, and most Russians would blame the West and not Putin for another collapse.
 
We need to stop believing that the world revolves around us(the U.S). We need to stop thinking that if bad things are happening around the world, it's one that we caused and one that we can fix. The U.S is irrelevant in the Ukraine. We have no good cards to play in Ukraine. Obama's policies are irrelevant just as Bush's were in 2008 when Russia invaded Georgia.
 
Russia's economy is not in dire straits like the Western news media proclaims. Russians will pay higher prices for goods and services because of inflation. The Western Europe his hooked on Russian oil for foreseeable future. The Western leadership is playing with fire with their economic sanctions on Russia. If Russia stops its natural gas to most of Eastern and Western Europe, their economies would collapse. Russians have been through an economic collapse, and most Russians would blame the West and not Putin for another collapse.

The United States could ship natural gas to Western Europe, as we have historically low prices with the production from North Dakota in recent years.
 
The United States could ship natural gas to Western Europe, as we have historically low prices with the production from North Dakota in recent years.

Not feasible. One, it would take years to build the necessary facilities on both sides of the Atlantic for shipping and receiving the liquefied natural gas. The Ukraine doesn't have terminals to receive LNG, they have pipelines. Two, the Dept of Energy has approved six applications for natural gas export terminals, but most of that gas is for Asia, where prices are higher and companies can make more money than selling in Europe
 
Not feasible. One, it would take years to build the necessary facilities on both sides of the Atlantic for shipping and receiving the liquefied natural gas. The Ukraine doesn't have terminals to receive LNG, they have pipelines. Two, the Dept of Energy has approved six applications for natural gas export terminals, but most of that gas is for Asia, where prices are higher and companies can make more money than selling in Europe

Most likely China will get most of the LNG, as they burn more coal than in the United States.

Thanks for that update on infrastructure problems.
 
Pro-Russian forces storm Ukrainian base in Crimea
AP - By ADAM PEMBLE and YURAS KARMANAU

BELBEK AIR BASE, Crimea (AP) — Pro-Russian forces stormed a Ukrainian air force base in Crimea, firing shots and smashing through concrete walls with armored personnel carriers. At least one person was wounded, the base commander said.

An APC also smashed open the front gate of the Belbek base near the port city of Sevastopol, according to footage provided by the Ukrainian Defense ministry. Two ambulances arrived and then departed shortly after, and at least one of them was carrying what appeared to be a wounded person, an Associated Press journalist said.

The Ukrainian commander of the base, Yuliy Mamchur, said there was at least one injury. He called his men together, they sang the Ukrainian national anthem and then stood at ease. He said they are going to turn over their weapons.

Russian forces have been seizing Ukrainian military facilities for several days in the Black Sea peninsula, which voted a week ago to secede and join Russia.

Elsewhere, more than 5,000 pro-Russia residents of a major city in Ukraine's east demonstrated in favor of holding a referendum on whether to seek to split off and become part of Russia.

The rally in Donetsk came less than a week after the Ukrainian region of Crimea approved secession in a referendum regarded as illegitimate by Western countries. After the referendum, Russia formally annexed Crimea.

With Crimea now effectively under the control of Russian forces, which ring Ukrainian military bases on the strategic Black Sea peninsula, concern is rising that Ukraine's eastern regions will agitate for a similar move.

Russia has brought large military contingents to areas near the border with eastern Ukraine. Russian President Vladimir Putin has said there is no intention to move into eastern Ukraine, but the prospect of violence between pro- and anti-secession groups in the east could be used as a pretext for sending in troops.

Eastern Ukraine is the heartland of Ukraine's economically vital heavy industry and mining. It's also the support base for Viktor Yanukovych, the Ukrainian president who fled to Russia last month after three months of protests in the capital, Kiev, triggered by his decision not to sign an agreement with the European Union.

Russia and Yanukovych supporters contend Yanukovych's ouster was a coup and allege that the authorities who then came to power are nationalists who would oppress the east's large ethnic Russian population.

"They're trying to tear us away from Russia," said demonstrator Igor Shapoval, a 59-year-old businessman. "But Donbass is ready to fight against this band which already lost Crimea and is losing in the east."

Donbass is the name for the region of factories and mines that includes Donetsk.

About an hour after the Donetsk rally began, the crowd marched through the city center and assembled before the regional administration building chanting: "Crimea! Donbass! Russia!"

Demonstrators waving Russian flags were faced off by lines of shield-wielding riot police. Inside, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier was meeting with local officials.

The demonstrators erected several tents, an ironic echo of the massive tent camp that was established on Kiev's central square after the protests against Yanukovych broke out in late November.

"I'm ready to live in a tent, but I'm not ready to submit to the West, to dance to their tune," said Viktor Rudko, a 43-year-old miner.

The local parliament on Friday formed a working group to develop a referendum analogous to the one in Crimea. Activists on Saturday passed out mock ballots, although no referendum has been formally called.

A number of leading pro-Russian activists have already been detained by police on suspicion of fomenting secessionist activities. The country's security services said Saturday that they have arrested Mikhail Chumachenko, leader of the self-styled Donbass People's Militia, on suspicion of seeking to seize authority.

As tensions roil in the east, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe is deploying an observer team aimed at easing the crisis.

Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said in a statement on Friday that Moscow hopes that the 200-strong team "will help to overcome the internal Ukrainian crisis" and ensure the respect for human rights there.

It is unclear whether the team will be allowed into Crimea. Russian forces last week stopped OSCE military observers from entering Crimea. The organization on Friday did not specify whether the observers will go to Crimea.

Lukashevich said on Saturday that the OSCE's mission "will reflect the new political and legal order and will not cover Crimea and Sevastopol which became part of Russia."

Sevastopol, a city in southwest Crimea, is the home of Russia's Black Sea Fleet.

Daniel Baer, the United States' chief envoy to OSCE, said the observers should have access to the territory because Crimea remains Ukrainian to the rest of the world.

The seizure of military facilities and navy ships by pro-Russian forces in Crimea has been proceeding apace since the peninsula was nominally absorbed by Russia.

On Saturday, a crowd stormed the Novofedorivka base, some 50 kilometers (30 miles) west of Simferopol, Ukraine's Defense Ministry said.

Ukrainian television station TSN said troops inside the base hoisted smoke grenades in an attempt to disperse groups of burly young men attempting to break through the front gates.

TSN reported that there were children among the crowd attempting to seize the base.

The Russian Defense Ministry says that as of late Friday less than 2,000 of 18,000 Ukrainian servicemen in Crimea had "expressed a desire to leave for Ukraine." The ministry, however, stopped short of saying the remainder of the troops would serve in the Russian army.
 
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