The Liberals Are The Worst Thread

[bodie54]

Credit Roosevelt for getting the country on a war footing while the American public was overwhelmingly against involvement in another european war, but fuck him for what he did to the American defenders of the Philippines. He repeatedly told them that help was coming when he knew damn well that they weren't. Instead of falling back, retreating, evacuating to Australia - à la Dunkirk, they held out based on a lie until it was too late and suffered the brutality, humiliation and mass death under japanese captivity.

And fuck Roosevelt for the japanese american internment camps. That racist liberal fuck.

The Philippines discussion is an interesting one, for sure, with MacArthur going even above and beyond Roosevelt, Stimson and Marshall in terms of maintaining the deception. As far as I know there was no option to evacuate our forces due to both not having the means and the hammerlock of the Japanese blockade. And they'd already retreated as far as they could.

The latter being a bipartisan fuck up of epic proportions - that many are concerned might yet be repeated with another segment of American citizens.

Sure but Ike and most of the hardcore general of the US Army, Navy, USMC and USAF were hardcore republicans.

So, no apology to the thousands of dead liberals who helped liberate France?

And I sure wouldn't characterize Ike as a "hardcore" republican. Matter of fact, for the most part he governed as a very moderate republican, so much so that the hardcore members of his party were at times quite at odds with him.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

Yes, cultural upbringing has nothing to do with it. It's all based on arbitrary lines on a map. Tribes in Papua New Guinea who sometimes resolve their conflicts by eating their enemies are no different than you or I. It's just an ocean that separates us.

You are correct Achmed: cultural upbringings has nothing to do with it. That cannibalism would be because of religion, not culture.

 

[sean miguel]

cultural upbringings has nothing to do with it. That cannibalism would be because of religion, not culture.

The two are intertwined. As for the the difference - ask German schoolgirls and their parents.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

In that example among others it would be one and the same.

Ask German schoolgirls and their parents.

What they're having for lunch? Probably a Syrian.

 

[xfire]

Do you guys know you can rep and neg-rep mods, too? I do it all the time. Of course, for this beauty, georgie-boy got a neg-rep. That is just the usual prejudice and a compkete stupid post.

Thank you for this post, it's both informative and instructive, and fucking hilarious, bow to the AHOTY Emeritus!

 

[Supafly]

Thank you for this post, it's both informative and instructive, and fucking hilarious, bow to the AHOTY Emeritus!

And just - in passing - make the OPs point.

We ARE the worst, huh :1orglaugh:

 

[sean miguel]

The Philippines discussion is an interesting one, for sure, with MacArthur going even above and beyond Roosevelt, Stimson and Marshall in terms of maintaining the deception. As far as I know there was no option to evacuate our forces due to both not having the means and the hammerlock of the Japanese blockade. And they'd already retreated as far as they could.

Even by the beginning of the Siege of Bataan, sending ships from Australia or islands not yet captured by the Japanese to evacuate American troops would've been doable. The Japanese were focusing their naval and air forces to cover their operations in Malay and the Dutch East Indies. The Allied American, British, Dutch, Australian naval forces were still intact and could've provided cover. This was the case until February of '42.

But the American and Filipino troops' fate was already decided. Like Stimson said, "There are times when men must die."

 

[xfire]

And just - in passing - make the OPs point.

We ARE the worst, huh :1orglaugh:

Definitely not virtuous, but fuck, who would want to be? The Seven Deadly seem like great goals to me.

 

[georges]

So, no apology to the thousands of dead liberals who helped liberate France?

And I sure wouldn't characterize Ike as a "hardcore" republican. Matter of fact, for the most part he governed as a very moderate republican, so much so that the hardcore members of his party were at times quite at odds with him.

I think I am one of the few on that board who thanked more than enough America for D Day. Sure there were some liberal soldiers that participated to d day but they were far to represent the overwhelming majority found in the US Armed Forces.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

[...] Sure there were some liberal soldiers that participated to d day but they were far to represent the overwhelming majority found in the US Armed Forces.

Just some? Despite the draft (selection for service by a national lottery) somehow you claim US soldiers were an overwhelmig majority of republicans? Was the lottery rigged? BC is right, the politics of service members is not widely and openly discussed and it's not on their headstone. There is no way of knowing. The presidential elections of 1936, 1940 and 1944 is probably the closest thing of something that might give a clue of democratic or republican support amongst soldiers. So unless you have any numbers please post them here, otherwise you're talking right out of your ass. Again.

 

[bodie54]

:::You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GodsEmbryo again:::

 

[bodie54]

Even by the beginning of the Siege of Bataan, sending ships from Australia or islands not yet captured by the Japanese to evacuate American troops would've been doable. The Japanese were focusing their naval and air forces to cover their operations in Malay and the Dutch East Indies. The Allied American, British, Dutch, Australian naval forces were still intact and could've provided cover. This was the case until February of '42.

Hmm. If you have a moment link me to something that discusses this, ok? I'd be interested to read about it and perhaps learn something new. My understanding has always been that the Japanese gained complete air superiority over the Philippines on the very first day of the conflict (Dec 8 local time) which mandated that the US Asiatic Fleet at Cavite evacuate immediately. That situation never changed, and what with elements of the Japanese navy present as well I don't see how a feasible rescue attempt could have been made. The US Pacific Fleet had of course been damaged badly at Pearl and had no chance of participating. And Australia was woefully unprepared for war - so much so that the length of time the heroic defenders of the Philippines held out may well have saved Australia from a devastating invasion.

 

[sean miguel]

Hmm. If you have a moment link me to something that discusses this, ok? I'd be interested to read about it and perhaps learn something new. My understanding has always been that the Japanese gained complete air superiority over the Philippines on the very first day of the conflict (Dec 8 local time) which mandated that the US Asiatic Fleet at Cavite evacuate immediately. That situation never changed, and what with elements of the Japanese navy present as well I don't see how a feasible rescue attempt could have been made. The US Pacific Fleet had of course been damaged badly at Pearl and had no chance of participating. And Australia was woefully unprepared for war - so much so that the length of time the heroic defenders of the Philippines held out may well have saved Australia from a devastating invasion.

I'll find it. I read it not too long ago. It was about resupplying the Americans under siege in the Philippines via ships from Australia or chartered cargo ships from other ports. Could that have been used as an evacuation means? And the American/British/Dutch/Australian naval task force was still operating in that area. Yeah they got decimated trying to stave off the Japanese landings on Java but they were still a force the Japanese had to reckon with. Even if a mass evacuation was impossible, those heroic men (and women) deserved to be told the truth from the get go - that they were on their own. Instead of surrendering en masse at Bataan then at Corregidor if they had known that the plan to hunker down and wait for relief wasn't going to be, more would have made it for the hills and jungles in the thousands of islands that make up the Philippines. Many of them formed guerilla groups that were effective at resisting the Japanese. There were over 200,000 American and Filipino guerilla fighters and the Japanese never controlled more than 40% of the territory. One American led guerilla group on Mindanao formed it's own government that operated out in the open. That life would've been preferable to what awaited the captives at the hands of the Japanese or what they suffered leading up to that.

 

[sean miguel]

Hmm. If you have a moment link me to something that discusses this, ok?

http://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_mariner/vol18/tnm_18_3-4_163-172.pdf

As viewed in retrospect, the odds of successfully sending supply ships from Australia, or from the United States, would have been reasonably good at the beginning of the siege of Bataan. At that time, Japanese naval strength and air power was occupied in covering their operations against the Malay Peninsula as well as those being conducted against the southern islands of the East Indies. The allied American, British, Dutch and Australian (ABDA) naval forces were still very much a threat to Japanese successes.

This situation would last until the end of February when the ABDA fleet was virtually destroyed during the Battle of the Java Sea and the naval actions that followed. After
that, Japanese naval deployments shifted to Philippine waters with the result that successful infiltration of the Japanese blockade became difficult if not impossible.

It is about resupply rather than mass evacuation but the window was there if ever the blockade was going to be broken through.

 

[DP_LOVER]

Yes, cultural upbringing has nothing to do with it. It's all based on arbitrary lines on a map. Tribes in Papua New Guinea who sometimes resolve their conflicts by eating their enemies are no different than you or I. It's just an ocean that separates us.

Correct.