Teen Dies After Police Use Taser on Him (Bay City, MI)

[Will E Worm]

If the police are so awful, why not just get rid of them altogether? And if the tazer is so dangerous, why should the police bother to use them at all?

That's what needs to be done. No, more tasers in police use. They are relatively new and we were doing fine without them.
Now tasers are used for any reason. The police abuse their powers all the time, just ask Rodney King, for one example.

We need intelligent and rational officers.

It seems to me that the US needs firearm controls - a lot of people will quote the 2nd amendment back at this, but I must point out that what is nearly always missed when people quote the 2nd amendment is - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" - everybody having a firearm, surely does not constitute "A well regulated Militia".

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The Militias was a pre-existing force prior to the forming of this country.

Read the last part, "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

We need the Militias and every American, wether they are in a Milita or not, has the right to own any and as many weapons as they want.
That is the law that was set up and people will still fight to keep it that way.

No matter who likes it. :hatsoff:

 

[larss]

The police abuse their powers all the time, just ask Rodney King, for one example.

We need intelligent and rational officers.

That's just rubbish! A very small minority of police abuse their powers on occasion, and these officers need to be weeded out of the police. Not quite the same thing!

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The Militias was a pre-existing force prior to the forming of this country.

Read the last part, "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

We need the Militias and every American, wether they are in a Milita or not, has the right to own any and as many weapons as they want.
That is the law that was set up and people will still fight to keep it that way.

No matter who likes it. :hatsoff:

No one needs a firearm. This amendment has been hotly debated for years as to its intention. Also, note that it says weapon not firearm, and that the need for weapons in a frontier country was probably more necessary than in these times. A person with a gun is far more likely to use it if confronted by someone else with a gun. If guns were banned from being held by the general citizenry in the US, there would be far fewer deaths. The argument against this is usually - "but then only the criminals and police would have guns". This, though, is the whole point. Fewer deaths by suicide (almost 1/2 of all gun deaths in the US are by gun), fewer police and by-stander deaths. Why have a gun - to protect yourself? From who, someone else with a gun? As I stated previously, if both the attacker and attacked have guns, they are far more likely to be used. If only the attacker has the gun, then the attacked may be victimised, but at least the chances are that they will live.

Here's a thought, why not let people own tazers instead of guns - they get their protection, far fewer people die, and the 2nd amendment still stands - the tazer is a weapon, and people will have the right to bear it.

 

[Facial_King]

(almost 1/2 of all gun deaths in the US are by gun)

errr..... I'm not gonna dive into this totally :2offtopic discussion of gun rights - this thread is supposed to be about a kid getting tasered and dying - but I'm gonna guess that you'd like to correct that line, larss...

:1orglaugh

My question being, what accounts for that mysterious OTHER half of gun deaths??

 

[larss]

errr..... I'm not gonna dive into this totally :2offtopic discussion of gun rights - this thread is supposed to be about a kid getting tasered and dying - but I'm gonna guess that you'd like to correct that line, larss...

:1orglaugh

My question being, what accounts for that mysterious OTHER half of gun deaths??

Apologies for going off topic :uohs:- in my defence, it was (thinly) related to tazer use, and the reasons for banning the police for using them. As for the gun deaths, the following is the 2005 figures quoted from www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

FACT:In 2005 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 30,694 gun deaths in the U.S:
12,352 homicides (40% of all U.S gun deaths),
17,002 suicides (55% of all U.S gun deaths),
789 unintentional shootings, 330 from legal intervention and 221 from undetermined intent (5% of all U.S gun deaths combined).

 

[Will E Worm]

That's just rubbish! A very small minority of police abuse their powers on occasion, and these officers need to be weeded out of the police. Not quite the same thing!

Too many are corrupt and need to be fired.

No one needs a firearm. This amendment has been hotly debated for years as to its intention. Also, note that it says weapon not firearm, and that the need for weapons in a frontier country was probably more necessary than in these times. A person with a gun is far more likely to use it if confronted by someone else with a gun. If guns were banned from being held by the general citizenry in the US, there would be far fewer deaths. The argument against this is usually - "but then only the criminals and police would have guns". This, though, is the whole point. Fewer deaths by suicide (almost 1/2 of all gun deaths in the US are by gun), fewer police and by-stander deaths. Why have a gun - to protect yourself? From who, someone else with a gun? As I stated previously, if both the attacker and attacked have guns, they are far more likely to be used. If only the attacker has the gun, then the attacked may be victimised, but at least the chances are that they will live.

Here's a thought, why not let people own tazers instead of guns - they get their protection, far fewer people die, and the 2nd amendment still stands - the tazer is a weapon, and people will have the right to bear it.

I don't know who told you all of this but you have been lied to.

Half the deaths are by guns?

We have the right to own weapons. The right had nothing to do with hunting. But if that's what someone uses them for that is their right. We were given the right to own weapons to defend ourselves against a despotic government and to defend our country from enemies foreign and domestic.

Yes, criminals will always find a way to get guns or anything else.

If more American's had guns the criminals would think twice about doing anything. Just look at which states have the highest armed citizens and you will see this is true. Criminals don't like armed victims.

Guns not tasers. That is our right. You could move to Canada. :hatsoff:

errr..... I'm not gonna dive into this totally :2offtopic discussion of gun rights - this thread is supposed to be about a kid getting tasered and dying - but I'm gonna guess that you'd like to correct that line, larss...

:1orglaugh

My question being, what accounts for that mysterious OTHER half of gun deaths??

Someone lied to him. I don't know why people believe guns are bad.

People that use guns irresponsible are the problem, not responsible gun owners.

Owning a gun or many guns is our right. Stop listening to the mainstream media and you will be better off and so will this country.

 

[larss]

Sorry, "almost 1/2 of all gun deaths in the US are by gun" should have read almost 1/2 of all gun deaths in the US are suicides.

In fact, further investigation shows that OVER 1/2 (55%) are suicides.

We were given the right to own weapons to defend ourselves against a despotic government and to defend our country from enemies foreign and domestic.

You are having a laugh! Despotic government - extremely unlikely. Enemies foreign? A gun really helps against terrorists does it? And the general populace will all get out their guns and shoot these easily identified people? That's what you have an army, national guard and police force for.

People that use guns irresponsible are the problem, not responsible gun owners.

Yes, but there are too many irresponsible gun owners.

Someone lied to him. I don't know why people believe guns are bad.

No one lied - I live in the UK where ownership of firearms is illegal - gun deaths per 100,000 in UK in (2002) was 0.37. In USA in 2001 there were 10.26 gun deaths per 100,000 - thats 30 times as many. I think these figures rather speak for themselves.

 

[ChefChiTown]

That's just rubbish! A very small minority of police abuse their powers on occasion, and these officers need to be weeded out of the police. Not quite the same thing!

This forum is full of people who are anti-police. One story about one bad police officer makes them believe that 99% of police officers are corrupt, egotistical scumbags that need to be fired.

A few people (statistically) get injured/killed by tasers and people act as if every single time a taser is deployed that somebody dies...which is far from reality.

 

[STDiva]

Someone lied to him. I don't know why people believe guns are bad.

Guns aren't bad?? They kill more people than tasers.


Lets assume tasers are banned. What are police going to do when a criminal gets out of hand? Take out their gun and shoot him. That criminals chances of dying just went way up.

I wish there was an article every time a taser was used and didn't kill the person. Now that would be new. amirite?

 

[ChefChiTown]

I wish there was an article every time a taser was used and didn't kill the person. Now that would be new. amirite?

I've looked for those, but since it's not "news worthy", nobody makes articles about it. It's just like how you never hear about stories that involve a picture perfect, textbook arrest in which nothing goes wrong and the police handle the matter with perfection.

And, since there are no articles that speak of the reality about police work, people just assume that all cops are dicks and that the police don't know what they're doing.

 

[STDiva]

I've looked for those, but since it's not "news worthy", nobody makes articles about it. It's just like how you never hear about stories that involve a picture perfect, textbook arrest in which nothing goes wrong and the police handle the matter with perfection.

And, since there are no articles that speak of the reality about police work, people just assume that all cops are dicks and that the police don't know what they're doing.

they're probably just being ironic or satirical.

 

[Will E Worm]

I know you live in a Socialist county. You don't have yo live here and I don't have to live in England. :hatsoff:

Sorry, "almost 1/2 of all gun deaths in the US are by gun" should have read almost 1/2 of all gun deaths in the US are suicides.

That's a lie.

Yes, but there are too many irresponsible gun owners.

Another lie by liberals.

No one lied - I live in the UK where ownership of firearms is illegal - gun deaths per 100,000 in UK in (2002) was 0.37. In USA in 2001 there were 10.26 gun deaths per 100,000 - thats 30 times as many. I think these figures rather speak for themselves.

I know a Socialist country.

The citizens of your country should have stood up and refused and fought for your rights.

You are having a laugh! Despotic government - extremely unlikely. Enemies foreign? A gun really helps against terrorists does it? And the general populace will all get out their guns and shoot these easily identified people? That's what you have an army, national guard and police force for.

Yes, our government is despotic and it's getting worse.

What if the military and police turn on the people?

That's why we have Militias and why we were given the right to own weapons.

 

[larss]

I know you live in a Socialist county. You don't have yo live here and I don't have to live in England. :hatsoff:



That's a lie.



Another lie by liberals.



I know a Socialist country.

The citizens of your country should have stood up and refused and fought for your rights.



Yes, our government is despotic and it's getting worse.

What if the military and police turn on the people?

That's why we have Militias and why we were given the right to own weapons.

I can't even begin to think how to respond to this. Why on earth would I want to fight for the right to have 30 times as many deaths by firearms than we have now? That seems just insane. I can't quite understand someone that wants taser's banned but not guns - it just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Marlo Manson]

I can't even begin to think how to respond to this. Why on earth would I want to fight for the right to have 30 times as many deaths by firearms than we have now? That seems just insane. I can't quite understand someone that wants taser's banned but not guns - it just doesn't make any sense.

I know if your a guy and you live in a country that bans guns. I think you are just jealous that men in the USA can own guns? :yesyes:

Cuz I know damn skippy. if I lived in your country that didn't allow guns, I would be relocating to the nearest country that did allow its citizens too own guns.

Be honest with yourself. your justifying your countries ban cuz you can't have guns. but if you were allowed you wouldn't be saying shit. :nono:

Of course this is just the perception I get when other people (mainly guys) from across the pond or other tightly restricted guns being banned and restricted in your country, it takes the man out of the soul of you guys who pray and wish you could own, shoot, and carry guns.

I don't know when it will sink in with you folks. its not the law abiding citizens that are committing all the crimes / shooting and murdering all the people in the USA all the time. its the criminals. now if the fuckin useless government / law enforcement could somehow control the trafficking of illegal weapons then those gun violence numbers would decrease RAPIDLY. but since guns can be sold on the black market, and the drug trade is lucrative and prevalent amongst gangs. who have all illegal guns. then this wouldn't be an issue.

Once again. law abiding citizens that own guns are not responsible for all that that goes in the streets and all the loonies going on killing spree's. and once in a while a retarded fuckin kid steals his fathers legal registered guns and does some dumb shit. the parent is guilty of being careless / reckless with taking car of his weapons. that doesn't happen very often. cuz most gun owners are critical if not overly protective of their cache of guns. just my :2 cents:

p.s. I know you appreciate the statistic's of your country vs. our country. but you know damn well if they lifted the ban in your country, you'd be in fuckin heaven. all guys love guns. just like guys love gals, sports, cars, its in our blood. and theirs NO way to deny that.

 

[smoknn]

since when does a pussy motherfuvcker got to have a taser for a 15 year old lmao...hes a powdered down pussy whoever the punk cop was..take that gun and badge off him i could make him suck my dick if i wanted to...pussy bastard

 

[ChefChiTown]

since when does a pussy motherfuvcker got to have a taser for a 15 year old lmao...hes a powdered down pussy whoever the punk cop was..take that gun and badge off him i could make him suck my dick if i wanted to...pussy bastard

So, 15 year olds are incapable of fighting? Carrying a concealed weapon? Wielding a knife? Firing a gun? We don't live in a made-for-TV-movie. We live in the real world and, in the real world, 15 year olds can kill you.

 

[Marlo Manson]

I know if your a guy and you live in a country that bans guns. I think you are just jealous that men in the USA can own guns? yesyes:

Cuz I know damn skippy. if I lived in your country that didn't allow guns, I would be relocating to the nearest country that did allow its citizens too own guns.

Be honest with yourself. your justifying your countries ban cuz you can't have guns. but if you were allowed you wouldn't be saying shit. :nono:

Of course this is just the perception I get when other people (mainly guys) from across the pond or other tightly restricted guns being banned and restricted in your country, it takes the man out of the soul of you guys who pray and wish you could own, shoot, and carry guns.

I don't know when it will sink in with you folks. its not the law abiding citizens that are committing all the crimes / shooting and murdering all the people in the USA all the time. its the criminals. now if the fuckin useless government / law enforcement could somehow control the trafficking of illegal weapons then those gun violence numbers would decrease RAPIDLY. but since guns can be sold on the black market, and the drug trade is lucrative and prevalent amongst gangs. who have all illegal guns. then this wouldn't be an issue.

Once again. law abiding citizens that own guns are not responsible for all that that goes in the streets and all the loonies going on killing spree's. and once in a while a retarded fuckin kid steals his fathers legal registered guns and does some dumb shit. the parent is guilty of being careless / reckless with taking car of his weapons. that doesn't happen very often. cuz most gun owners are critical if not overly protective of their cache of guns. just my 2 cents:

p.s. I know you appreciate the statistic's of your country vs. our country. but you know damn well if they lifted the ban in your country, you'd be in fuckin heaven. all guys love guns. just like guys love gals, sports, cars, its in our blood. and theirs NO way to deny that.

*CORRECTED VERSION 10 MINUTE EDIT BEAT ME*​

I know if your a guy and you live in a country that bans guns. I think you are just jealous that men in the USA can own guns? :yesyes:

and I am not rubbing this freedom in your face, nor making light of your being jealous in a humorous or mocking manner, its just common sense. amonst men. Cuz I know damn skippy. if I lived in your country that didn't allow guns, I would be relocating to the nearest country that did allow its citizens too own guns.

Be honest with yourself. your justifying your countries ban cuz you can't have guns. but if you were allowed you wouldn't be saying shit. :nono:

Of course this is just the perception I get when other people (mainly guys) from across the pond or other tightly restricted guns being banned and restricted in your residing country, it takes the man out of the soul of you guys who pray and wish you could own, shoot, and carry guns.

I don't know when it will sink in with you folks. its not the law abiding citizens that are committing all the crimes / shooting and murdering all the people in the USA all the time.

Its the criminals. now if the useless fuckin government / law enforcement could somehow control the trafficking of illegal weapons then those gun violence numbers would decrease RAPIDLY.

but since guns are sold so easily and frequently on the black market, and the drug trade is so lucrative and prevalent amongst gangs. who all have illegal guns. then this "gun violence" wouldn't be an issue.

Once again. law abiding citizens that own guns are not responsible for the that goes in the streets, and its the loonies that are going on these killing spree's.

albeit once in a while a retarded fuckin kid steals his fathers legal registered guns and does some dumb shit. the parent is guilty of being careless / reckless with taking care of his weapons. that doesn't happen very often. cuz most gun owners are critical if not overly protective of their cache of guns. just my :2 cents:

p.s. I know you appreciate the statistic's of your country vs. our country. but you know damn well if they lifted the ban in your country, you'd be in fuckin heaven. all guys love guns. just like guys love gals, sports, cars, its in our blood. and theirs NO way to deny that. and please keep in mind, I am not rubbing our gun policy freedoms in your faces. its just you guys endlessly try to blast us all of the time, cuz I think it makes you feel better about what your countries policies are concerning guns are. thats all. :2 cents::thumbsup:

 

[larss]

I know if your a guy and you live in a country that bans guns. I think you are just jealous that men in the USA can own guns? :yesyes:

I repeat - why would I want the situation in my country where 30 times more gun related deaths occur? That is just insane!

it takes the man out of the soul of you guys who pray and wish you could own, shoot, and carry guns

I can't quite see how having a weapon (of any sort) that can kill another person anonymously takes the man away a soul - just the opposite I would have said.

p.s. I know you appreciate the statistic's of your country vs. our country. but you know damn well if they lifted the ban in your country, you'd be in fuckin heaven. all guys love guns. just like guys love gals, sports, cars, its in our blood. and theirs NO way to deny that. and please keep in mind, I am not rubbing our gun policy freedoms in your faces. its just you guys endlessly try to blast us all of the time, cuz I think it makes you feel better about what your countries policies are concerning guns are. thats all.

No, I don't like guns, and I wouldn't want to own one even if I could. Freedom I condone, the freedom to be able to walk the streets without having to worry about some nut case pulling a gun and shooting a bunch of people.

 

[larss]

No, I don't like guns, and I wouldn't want to own one even if I could. Freedom I condone, the freedom to be able to walk the streets without having to worry about some nut case pulling a gun and shooting a bunch of people.

It just seems to happen all too often. From yesterday's news

 

[Marlo Manson]

I repeat - why would I want the situation in my country where 30 times more gun related deaths occur? That is just insane!

I can't quite see how having a weapon (of any sort) that can kill another person anonymously takes the man away a soul - just the opposite I would have said.

No, I don't like guns, and I wouldn't want to own one even if I could. Freedom I condone, the freedom to be able to walk the streets without having to worry about some nut case pulling a gun and shooting a bunch of people.

Ok thats your spin on the situation. and like I mentioned, all this violence and mayhem is from the illegally owned weapons sector of our population. where weapons were not tracked responsibly. cuz MOST of the law abiding citizens take care of their weapons come hell or high water, and when they happen to have their weapons stolen or lost. they report it ASAP. before I was even grown enough to know what kind of terror and damage guns can do. I was attracted too / and addicted too guns when I was a child. just like most children when they see guns on television and @ the movies. no matter where you live. its just a fact.

It just seems to happen all too often. From yesterday's news

Like I said its the whacko's! its not law abiding citizens. once our government lost control of the production and sales of illegal firearms & who was buying them and who's hands they were ending up in, they naturally lost the battle of being in control of the weapons trade. :dunno:

but the way I see it. if the problem is the guns the government can't or lost control of. why is it the law abiding citizens that are blamed for all the criminal activity and brainless use of guns in senseless violence by nuts. when they using illegal firearms to begin with, they for the most part were not legal firearms in the 1st place, and then the critics and the government ask us law abiding citizens who own weapons are asked too give up our weapons? it make no sense to me? :yinyang:

 

[larss]

before I was even grown enough to know what kind of terror and damage guns can do. I was attracted too / and addicted too guns when I was a child. just like most children when they see guns on television and @ the movies. no matter where you live. its just a fact.

I think that this is part of the problem. Another statistic is that 0.27 out of 100,000 gun related deaths in USA are accidental. (Remember that 0.37 is the TOTAL gun related deaths in UK). Of that, 10% are children 14 and under. No mater how conscientious the parents about keeping their guns safe, kids find ways of accessing them anyway - especially, as you say, when they are so attracted to them.

Having said all that, we are rather off topic here. The discussion was whether tasers should be banned. In my opinion, I see the need for them more in the US, than the UK - because guns are so prevalent in the US, and being able to use a taser instead of a gun must, therefore, be preferable. The need in the UK is less for precisely the same reason - in fact, only trained firearms officers currently carry tasers here.