I think that all other sports teams that have taken a name referencing native Americans are not particularly offensive Braves Chiefs and so on. But I can see the point of those that say they should change it. Cowboys fans should recuse themselves from this debate.
Should the Washington Redskins change their name?
- Thread starter Jack Davenport
- Start date
If the Redskins need to change their name, the Cleveland Indians need to change their logo, nevermind the Fighting Irish.
When the Washington Bullets changed their name to the Wizards gun crime went down in D.C. Just kidding.
How about the Washington Winners? Or would that be offensive to losers?
When the Washington Bullets changed their name to the Wizards gun crime went down in D.C. Just kidding.
How about the Washington Winners? Or would that be offensive to losers?
Indian isn't offensive and Chief Wahoo is a cool logo. If they were the Blackskins or the Yellowskins the name would have been changed a long time ago. My suggestion: The Washington Do Nothings
I'm not for changing any of the names but if anything, Chief Wahoo is a ridiculous caricature (his skin is actually red) compared to the Redskins' logo which is actually noble.
Fighting Irish is apropos. The Irish love to fight. I went to Dublin in 1997 and was thoroughly entertained at the shit that broke out in the bars. Especially at the slang they use when angry.
Fighting Irish is appropriate, I can tell you from a first hand perspective. The University of Notre Dame isn't suggesting all Irish are fighters, they are merely acknowledging their Irish roots, and saying their teams will fight, fight for Old Notre Dame. Yeah, it's part of the fight song of the school. Fighting Irish isn't relevant to this discussion.
Now, the Redskins - an interesting point you make, BC. If they were called the Blackskins or the Yellowskins, that wouldn't have been tolerated. It would already be changed. Can we all agree on that point? I think that's hard to argue. Now, if that's true, why do we accept redskins? It's no more true than black or yellow, why is it "more okay" for that name to persist?
Having said that, I'm not interested in the least in politically correct speech. This reminds me of my very good friend who lives in Vienna. On their opera house it reads, "In this house we celebrate the great German composers" (or similar). That was put up during Hitler's occupation, when they were doing things like convincing the world that Beethoven was German, not Austrian. He got red in the face, spitting mad, despising the actions of the Nazis, and hating the fact that his beloved Opera House was marked in this way. At the end of his description of this, he then said, "but...this is our history. The words on the Opera House are hurtful, but you do not throw away your history. This reminds us what the Nazis did, what they tried to take from us, and it makes us strong."
Can something similar be said here? How did we treat natives? How do we treat them now? Does the name "Redskins" remind us of our history, or simply continue to bring up hateful stereotypes?
If I have to come down on one side of the issue, I'd say it's probably time to change the name, but if it doesn't change, I'm not mailing poop to anyone because I'm pissed. Tradition counts for a lot with sport franchises. And changing the name/logo would cost millions.
How's that for a very wordy "whatever."?
Now, the Redskins - an interesting point you make, BC. If they were called the Blackskins or the Yellowskins, that wouldn't have been tolerated. It would already be changed. Can we all agree on that point? I think that's hard to argue. Now, if that's true, why do we accept redskins? It's no more true than black or yellow, why is it "more okay" for that name to persist?
Having said that, I'm not interested in the least in politically correct speech. This reminds me of my very good friend who lives in Vienna. On their opera house it reads, "In this house we celebrate the great German composers" (or similar). That was put up during Hitler's occupation, when they were doing things like convincing the world that Beethoven was German, not Austrian. He got red in the face, spitting mad, despising the actions of the Nazis, and hating the fact that his beloved Opera House was marked in this way. At the end of his description of this, he then said, "but...this is our history. The words on the Opera House are hurtful, but you do not throw away your history. This reminds us what the Nazis did, what they tried to take from us, and it makes us strong."
Can something similar be said here? How did we treat natives? How do we treat them now? Does the name "Redskins" remind us of our history, or simply continue to bring up hateful stereotypes?
If I have to come down on one side of the issue, I'd say it's probably time to change the name, but if it doesn't change, I'm not mailing poop to anyone because I'm pissed. Tradition counts for a lot with sport franchises. And changing the name/logo would cost millions.
How's that for a very wordy "whatever."?
If you were starting a sports team and were going to invest $$ into it why would you choose a name that you wouldn't take pride or inspiration in? Yeah, "Redskins" wouldn't be a politically correct name these days but I equate this more to german soldiers in WWI referring to U.S. Marines as "Devil Dogs" than to just bigots using a racial epithet to name their sports franchise. There's at the very least a grudging respect there.
Would any of you walk up to a Native American and call them a Redskin?
I wouldn't call them a Brave or a Warrior either.
Tradition be damned. The team and their name was formed in a time that Blacks weren't even allowed to use the same restroom as whites. Think about that for a moment. You are a black person and you see asian or hispanic people using the whites only restroom ( I assume they could) but because you are black you couldn't use uhe same bathroom or water fountain as whites? They even got over the No Irish Allowed by the 1940's. I don't think changing the name is political correctness. I think it is common sense. When the name was created they didn't give a damn who would be offended at that time.
Ive been reading up on this. Apparently the term "red skins" was a literal translation of how native americans referred to themselves to distinguish themselves from the european settlers who they referred to as "white skins". The term wasn't meant nor was it used as a pejorative. It was simply neutral. Like calling someone black or white. It wasn't until recent times that this became offensive.
The team originated as the Boston Braves but the team owner changed the name to Redskins in honor of the head coach who was native american.
Just an anecdote, I have an immediate family member who is native American who is not offended by the redskins name in the slightest. They also happen to be a huge Redskins fan so they may be biased. I believe there's a high school football team in the Navajo Nation that call themselves the Redskins.
Interesting article where a linguist sheds some light on the matter:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/02/AR2005100201139_2.html
The team originated as the Boston Braves but the team owner changed the name to Redskins in honor of the head coach who was native american.
Just an anecdote, I have an immediate family member who is native American who is not offended by the redskins name in the slightest. They also happen to be a huge Redskins fan so they may be biased. I believe there's a high school football team in the Navajo Nation that call themselves the Redskins.
Interesting article where a linguist sheds some light on the matter:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/02/AR2005100201139_2.html
Hmm Well fuck! animus kinda threw in a bunker buster. I have never understood why Japs was all that offensive. It is just a root term for Japanese . We say Brits or Aussie and Scots. So are Indians supportive of the Redskins name considered uncle tom toms?
Actually, try this link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/02/AR2005100201139.html
Sorry, I'm doing this from my phone.
Sorry, I'm doing this from my phone.
bahodeme
Closed Account
Should it be changed yes. Will it no. Daniel Synder has no monetary reason to change. Will the fans stop going to the games? Even if some did, there is a waiting list for tickets. Will the fans that are ticket holders stop singing "Hail to the Redskins"? No. The problem is if you look at the organization's history, starting from George Prentiss, you will see that ethnic insensitivity was/is common.
All good points and I know a few black people that are huge Redskins fans. Maybe announcers should just start calling them the Washington R-Words during the game.
This is well and good, but not an air tight argument. Many (most?) blacks in America have reclaimed the word n****r. Shall we name them the Washington n****rs? If the blacks aren't offended, why not?
I say lets stick to words that will offend no one. Throw out your suggestions for a new name for Washington. Here are some of mine:
the Hebrews
the Wasps
Or we could go a whole different direction:
the Diesel dykes
(Anyone who takes me seriously deserves a boot to the head.)
The Seemsupsets
