Roger Clemens Trial

[meesterperfect]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/roger-clemens-trial-set-begin/story?id=14001237

I just gotta say this is bullshit.
Bullshit on so many levels.

#1 why was congress involved in this anyway?
#2 why are steroids even illegal?
Who cares if an adult wants to use them anyway?
Its their body.
In the country I lived in for years you can just go to any pharmacy and buy them no questions asked. Why? because THE GOV isnt in your business every time your do anything.
All these people in the USA killing themselves with food getting so fat they cant even walk then collecting disabilty and medicaid meanwhile millions of people lose everything they own because they got sick from no fault of their own and the GOV says fuck off and die already.
Why not make a law against fatty food instead of trying to put someone in jail for trying to get stronger?

I not ashamed to say that I have done many cycles testosterone legally where I lived.
Why? Because I wanted to, its my body. And its not dangerous unless youre pumping huge amounts into yourself.
No side effects besides more strength if youre working out heavy and faster recovery and no health hazzards at all.
The beliefs people have today about steroids are no different from the middle ages when people thought that the plague was caused by Satan, or God.

Back to Clemens, I can't believe THE GOV is putting this guy through this.
The financial cost, the stress, and facing jail.
Not right.

 

[STDiva]

The government shouldn't be involved, that's for sure. I don't think steroids should be in sports though. It creates an unfair playing field and players shouldn't have to take something they are morally against just to try and keep up.

 

[monicasilver]

The government shouldn't be involved, that's for sure. I don't think steroids should be in sports though. It creates an unfair playing field and players shouldn't have to take something they are morally against just to try and keep up.

I agree, but it I think Karma hit Roger in the face.

I have no sympathy for him.

 

[YumiYumi_1988]

I think you have to regulate steroids, not necessarily because of the whole level playing field thing, but because it creates an atmosphere that kids see, and pretty soon more and more kids are gonna try steroids in order to make it big, and it's gonna create an epidemic. And MLB will have all fingers pointed at them. So they need to get rid of it, or at least make it seem as though it's gotten rid of, to save face.

And the government should not be involved.

 

[Jagger69]

Geez....didn't we just go through all this ad nauseum when Bonds was on trial?. How many times does this have to be explained??? Absolutely the government should be involved. He is charged with perjury....lying and obstructing a Congressional investigation. This has nothing to do with sports and nothing to do with steroids. Clemens' hubris is going to end up getting the best of him and deservedly so. If he would have just told the truth, none of this would be happening. I don't feel one bit of sympathy for him.

 

[meesterperfect]

Geez....didn't we just go through all this ad nauseum when Bonds was on trial?. How many times does this have to be explained??? Absolutely the government should be involved. He is charged with perjury....lying and obstructing a Congressional investigation. This has nothing to do with sports and nothing to do with steroids. Clemens' hubris is going to end up getting the best of him and deservedly so. If he would have just told the truth, none of this would be happening. I don't feel one bit of sympathy for him.

c'mon jag.
Yes at this point its about perjury.

But how did it get to this point where a man lied about his use of a substance that should not be illegal anyway and now is facing prison and heavy fines?

Baseball is a business right? A private business.
So since when do we need the United States Congress to investigate any form of drug use or any crime actually live on TV ?
Isnt that the job of the police?

My point is he should have never been put in this situation in the first place.
Doncha think?

 

[Deepcover]

There is no short cuts in life. It's as simple as that and if so only temporarily.

 

[meesterperfect]

I agree, but it I think Karma hit Roger in the face.

I have no sympathy for him.

Ok, so a guy who's job it is is to abuse his body for years takes something which in his case was probably only to help his body/muscles recover faster considering he was about 40 and had been throwing 100mph pitches routinely for 20 odd years and was forced to be in hearing over it.
Now he could do time.

You should have sympathy for the guy.
If he was in this situation for using protien shakes, power bars, creatine, amino acids , centrum silver or some other big business snake oil you'd probably have sympathy.
Oh but you heard the word steroid, I get it.

All moderate use of roids such as testosterones do is help the body increase testosterone levels which then increases protein synthesis so if youre working out or abusing your body like clemens was the muscle will recover faster and maintain its strength if you are eating right, especially high protein foods.
In his case it was more of a medical use than to try to become the next Ferrigno.
Its no big deal.

There is no short cuts in life. It's as simple as that and if so only temporarily.

yeah true, temporary, like until he retires.
would you be against an athlete or any person getting a massage, acupunture, heat treatments, ect
or taking medicine for shoulder pain? I mean steriods are prescribed and invented for that reason in the first place, to help people recover from injuries and sicknesses.
It was his body, if he wanted to take something that helped him who is anybody to judge it wrong?

 

[STDiva]

My point is he should have never been put in this situation in the first place.
Doncha think?

Bingo!

 

[Jagger69]

My point is he should have never been put in this situation in the first place.
Doncha think?

No, I don't agree. The fact is that steroids are illegal and I am not in favor of them being allowed for use in MLB or any other sport for that matter. They make of travesty of the game and belittle the accomplishments of great players who did things the right way (Roger Maris holds the single-season home run record and Hank Aaron holds the all-time record as far as I am concerned). The bogus players who defrauded the public need to be exposed for what they are. Primadonnas like Bonds and Clemens who refuse to come clean deserve whatever they get. We're a very forgiving society (Andy Pettite and A-Rod admitted what they did and that was the end of it) but we have no tolerance for those who think the rules don't apply to them. All Clemens had to do was admit it and we would have all forgotten about it. It's his own goddamned fault he's in the position he is now and I have no empathy for him.

 

[titsrock]

Meester, the point of athletic competition is to put two equal persons or teams against each other and have some sort of event play out with a win/lose outcome. It is not supposed to be a case of manufacturing athletic performance through UNNATURAL MEANS. The way to get better at a sport/competition is to work hard and train not pump your body full of chemical shit because there is a CLEAR ADVANTAGE for those who choose the chemical pump way versus those who do not.

If you allow steroids to exist in competition -- and since you have no problem with it I guess you have no problem with it in kiddie leagues/high school athletics and olympic competitions either-- then it must become a requirement for ALL ATHLETES to use because of the performance advantage/disparity!

Allowing steroids also opens to the door to what the Chinese and East Germans were trying to do in the Olympics --- turn women into men through chemical doping up...



Also, don't you think crime rates would increase if Steroids are legalized because of that whole ROID RAGE thing?

And, you say Roids aren't bad if their usage is limited...well, who's going to monitor usage? The Gov't? Nobody? It it a case like smoking where people should be allowed to ruin their bodies if they can afford to do so? :dunno:

 

[Will E Worm]

#1 why was congress involved in this anyway?

They are over-stepping their bounds once again.

#2 why are steroids even illegal?
Who cares if an adult wants to use them anyway?
Its their body.

Steroids and Cancer Treatment, Steroids to Treat Arthritis, Steroid Treatment for Kidney Disease, and many other treatments.

Anabolic steroid

In the country I lived in for years you can just go to any pharmacy and buy them no questions asked. Why? because THE GOV isnt in your business every time your do anything.

Too many apathetic people that will not fight back for their freedoms.

Back to Clemens, I can't believe THE GOV is putting this guy through this.
The financial cost, the stress, and facing jail.
Not right.

It's not. This is the job of Major League Baseball, not the federal governemnt.

 

[StanScratch]

Those with very short memories should be reminded: The trials were started with Republicans controlling the house. This was also done during a period of time when the House and Senate were earning quite the reputation for not even attempting to accomplish a thing - so at least they got something done. So, again, remember that, you small guvmint sorts - it was indeed your small guvmint heroes who got this whole ball rolling...BUT...
It actually needed to be done, because Selig was allowing the whole steroids thing to tear the game apart. He didn't give a fuck. He was raking in the cash from the results. And the game was becoming quite the laughing stock as a result.

 

[monicasilver]

Ok, so a guy who's job it is is to abuse his body for years takes something which in his case was probably only to help his body/muscles recover faster considering he was about 40 and had been throwing 100mph pitches routinely for 20 odd years and was forced to be in hearing over it.
Now he could do time.

You should have sympathy for the guy.
If he was in this situation for using protien shakes, power bars, creatine, amino acids , centrum silver or some other big business snake oil you'd probably have sympathy.
Oh but you heard the word steroid, I get it.

All moderate use of roids such as testosterones do is help the body increase testosterone levels which then increases protein synthesis so if youre working out or abusing your body like clemens was the muscle will recover faster and maintain its strength if you are eating right, especially high protein foods.
In his case it was more of a medical use than to try to become the next Ferrigno.
Its no big deal.



yeah true, temporary, like until he retires.
would you be against an athlete or any person getting a massage, acupunture, heat treatments, ect
or taking medicine for shoulder pain? I mean steriods are prescribed and invented for that reason in the first place, to help people recover from injuries and sicknesses.
It was his body, if he wanted to take something that helped him who is anybody to judge it wrong?

No, I don't care about steroids. He threw a ball at Mike Piazza's head. I think he is a bad guy. I don't like him. Period.

 

[meesterperfect]

No, I don't agree. The fact is that steroids are illegal and I am not in favor of them being allowed for use in MLB or any other sport for that matter. They make of travesty of the game and belittle the accomplishments of great players who did things the right way (Roger Maris holds the single-season home run record and Hank Aaron holds the all-time record as far as I am concerned). The bogus players who defrauded the public need to be exposed for what they are. Primadonnas like Bonds and Clemens who refuse to come clean deserve whatever they get. We're a very forgiving society (Andy Pettite and A-Rod admitted what they did and that was the end of it) but we have no tolerance for those who think the rules don't apply to them. All Clemens had to do was admit it and we would have all forgotten about it. It's his own goddamned fault he's in the position he is now and I have no empathy for him.

Meester, the point of athletic competition is to put two equal persons or teams against each other and have some sort of event play out with a win/lose outcome. It is not supposed to be a case of manufacturing athletic performance through UNNATURAL MEANS. The way to get better at a sport/competition is to work hard and train not pump your body full of chemical shit because there is a CLEAR ADVANTAGE for those who choose the chemical pump way versus those who do not.

If you allow steroids to exist in competition -- and since you have no problem with it I guess you have no problem with it in kiddie leagues/high school athletics and olympic competitions either-- then it must become a requirement for ALL ATHLETES to use because of the performance advantage/disparity!

Allowing steroids also opens to the door to what the Chinese and East Germans were trying to do in the Olympics --- turn women into men through chemical doping up...



Also, don't you think crime rates would increase if Steroids are legalized because of that whole ROID RAGE thing?

And, you say Roids aren't bad if their usage is limited...well, who's going to monitor usage? The Gov't? Nobody? It it a case like smoking where people should be allowed to ruin their bodies if they can afford to do so? :dunno:

I see the argument of not allowing it in professional competition, with the exception of bodybuilding.
I also acknowledge that athletes in the past did not have them.
So if they are against the rules then that sport should fine , suspend or ban players caught through testing all of them.

I don't agree that they should be illegal though.
Like I've said steroids such as testosterones, deca, dianobol , can be used responsibly for people who want to get stronger after an injury or sickness or who just want to get in better shape.
There is no proof that low, moderate levels of these are dangerous to your health and even if they are so what?
You are an adult who can make that decision just like the smoker , drinker , eater. Everythings bad if you take it too much.

People hear steroids and they think HUGE musclebound people.
Yeah those guys are taking HUGE amounts of several different ones and are eating like dinosaurs.
If you take a normal dose cycle and workout right and eat right while on it you'll get a little stronger, thats all.......just like all the snake oils on the market claim to do but don't that people spend billions of dollars on each year.
No big deal, no adverse effects, and I don't think THE GOV should tell someone they can't do it.

Feeling as I do I don't think Clemens should be in the situation he's in right now.

 

[D-rock]

No, I don't agree. The fact is that steroids are illegal and I am not in favor of them being allowed for use in MLB or any other sport for that matter. They make of travesty of the game and belittle the accomplishments of great players who did things the right way (Roger Maris holds the single-season home run record and Hank Aaron holds the all-time record as far as I am concerned). The bogus players who defrauded the public need to be exposed for what they are. Primadonnas like Bonds and Clemens who refuse to come clean deserve whatever they get. We're a very forgiving society (Andy Pettite and A-Rod admitted what they did and that was the end of it) but we have no tolerance for those who think the rules don't apply to them. All Clemens had to do was admit it and we would have all forgotten about it. It's his own goddamned fault he's in the position he is now and I have no empathy for him.

While I agree that perjury just can't be overlooked and has to be looked into I think what meesterperfect is getting at is that steroids in baseball should never been that important an issue in the first place that people had to go and testify before congress because of the inner workings of the on field competitive balance of a professional sport. I have to agree with him that just seems kind of silly, especially with all the other much more important issues that congress either seems incapable or unwilling to solve. That they spent all that time and effort to go though all of that doesn't make sense to me. That part I agree with meesterperfect about.




I also agree that I don't see much more of a reason steroids should be banned from mentally competent adults, although I don't have a problem with sports banning them from a fairness and competitive advantage standpoint. It shouldn't be the government's job to protect people from themselves.

 

[John_8581]

No, I don't agree. The fact is that steroids are illegal and I am not in favor of them being allowed for use in MLB or any other sport for that matter. They make of travesty of the game and belittle the accomplishments of great players who did things the right way (Roger Maris holds the single-season home run record and Hank Aaron holds the all-time record as far as I am concerned). The bogus players who defrauded the public need to be exposed for what they are. Primadonnas like Bonds and Clemens who refuse to come clean deserve whatever they get. We're a very forgiving society (Andy Pettite and A-Rod admitted what they did and that was the end of it) but we have no tolerance for those who think the rules don't apply to them. All Clemens had to do was admit it and we would have all forgotten about it. It's his own goddamned fault he's in the position he is now and I have no empathy for him.

If former Yankee trainer Brian McNamee is proven to be believable. And Andy Pettitte testifies and says all the stuff he said in the Mitchell Report, then...

Roger Clemens loses and he goes off to jail. And no Baseball Hall of Fame EVER for him!!

And I'll be so very very happy :elaugh:

** I'm a SF Giants fan, and I can't stand Barry Bonds either. **

 

[PJpenny]

The Government should regulate Steroids, but they should not and never should gotten involved in baseballs business regarding the steroids. I think congress shoulve worried about things that really affected everyday people instead of steroids in baseball.

As for Roger Clemons he is an example of something that ive hated for so long and thats the fact the media puts steroids allegations on every player they hate or doesnt kiss up to them, but players they just adore like Roger clemons they left him alone for the longest of time never questioning why his numbers stayed great for so many years. it wasnt until he embarresed himself in front of congress that it became impossible for them to continue backing him up.

 

[meesterperfect]

While I agree that perjury just can't be overlooked and has to be looked into I think what meesterperfect is getting at is that steroids in baseball should never been that important an issue in the first place that people had to go and testify before congress because of the inner workings of the on field competitive balance of a professional sport. I have to agree with him that just seems kind of silly, especially with all the other much more important issues that congress either seems incapable or unwilling to solve. That they spent all that time and effort to go though all of that doesn't make sense to me. That part I agree with meesterperfect about.




I also agree that I don't see much more of a reason steroids should be banned from mentally competent adults, although I don't have a problem with sports banning them from a fairness and competitive advantage standpoint. It shouldn't be the government's job to protect people from themselves.

you explained it better than me.
what D said.

 

[Jon S.]

I have no sympathy for Roger Clemens whatsoever. If people haven't learned by now....DON'T FUCKING LIE TO THE GOVERNMENT!!!!! It's not that hard....and they REALLY don't take too kindly to those who do. Clemens is a fake ass douchebag who, along with his cohorts essentially shit on an entire era of baseball (where the powers that be turned a blind eye to what was OBVIOUS to everyone who took off the blinders...just to make a quick buck....because, lets face it...all of the cheating DID put asses in the seats). When you are caught......fucking man up! As pathetic as our society can be....we usually forgive those who admit they did wrong IMMEDIATELY after they are caught. Clemens' excuses and explanations are laughable at best. I mean, does he REALLY think anyone really believes him?

Now steroids as a whole are not illegal....not even the kind that the baseball players were using. The fact is that they obtained them illegally and used them for an illegal purpose. I had a bad bout with vertigo last year....and I was on steroids for a week.....but I had an Rx....and they weren't the kind used by the players. Should they ease the restrictions? That's not the point. The point is that they are ILLEGAL for the purposes Clemens and others used them for. I liked the crowd that used to point out that they were not banned by baseball at the time. Who the fuck cares....they were ILLEGAL!!! That does not even go into the fact that Clemens and others like him were nothing more than cheats....who shit on the tradition, history, and intergrity of the game. I say fuck him and those like him. I'm not even going to touch the sex scandal surrounding him and a then underage girl who went on to become a country singer (who tried to kill herself) I'd say his chances of getting in the Hall of Fame are about as good as Marge Schott's....and I mean that.

Why did Congress get involved? Honestly, part of it was to be little kids oogling their sports idols. BUT, given that youth athletes emulate the conduct of the pros....that was where there was a genuine vested interest in Congress getting involved.

Finally, and in summation......the thing they are going after him is for LYING...not for all of the other illegal conduct. Anyone who is so cocky, arrogant, and fucking full of themselves that they are too stupid to learn from the past....that they would openly lie to the government.....well then....sorry....I don't feel fucking sorry for them in the slightest. At the end of the day....the government didn't do this to him....fuck nobody did this to him.....that is nobody but ROGER CLEMENS himself! :2 cents: