Right-Wing Says You'll Die If Health Care Passes

[Friday on my mind]

The Post office works?

The post office loses money where the UPS and FEDEX make money. The post office is the worst example of a "good" run govt agency.

Medicare doesnt work, its fuggin broke as in doesnt have any money and cost taxpayers BILLIONS upon BILLIONS...


Like someone said earlier in this thread, all you liberals that were against the Patriot act and warrentless wire taps( I was against this also) have no problem with the feds having 100% access to your private medical records and chosing what proceedure you get and don't get.

Why the faith in govt now all of a sudden???

And everyone please stop making this republican vs democrat. Its not, its about your right to freely choose a Dr and keep your info with him out of govt hands. Its also about care not being rationed. And anyone who has read this bill there is all kinds of talk about care being rationed. Even Obama himself has talked about just giving pain pills instead of giving hip replacements to old people. This is called rationing care.

You can't compare the post office to Fed-ex or UPS,the post office will deliver anywhere to any address,those private guys won't .

Part of Medicares problems are we have done nothing about the escalating costs of health care driven by the greed of the drug and insurance companies.We need to do get those under control to stabilize medicare.

As to rationing care ,do you really beleive that doesn't happen now by the HMO's and insurance companies?

Don't we have to make some choices no matter what system we have or do we have an endless pot of money to pay for anything and everything?

I hear whatever you want to call them republicans,conservatives saying what they don't like about the bill.But untill they come up with a reasonable alternative that does something about the costs which have risen double the inflation rate for decades and finds a way to provide everyone with some basic level of insurance we can as Titsrock says just disregard them as having nothing constructive to offer on the subject.

 

[Member2019]

Actually, you can ...

You can't compare the post office to Fed-ex or UPS,the post office will deliver anywhere to any address,those private guys won't.

Actually, you can!

The USPS is actually not as much of an agency as you realize. They are more of a government sanctioned monopoly. Heck, they used to turn a profit! They were run quite well. They leveraged stamps and other "marketing" to great effect.

Unfortunately they started being stupid. Read up on what the USPS has been doing. My personal favorite is still them buying houses, houses for employees that were way bigger than anything on my block for people that make far, far less than what we do.

It's when government employees abuse expenses that we have problems. This has been my biggest complaint with US government and government monopolies -- the abuse by employee expenses as "standard operating procedure."

When I do work for the government on contract where my expenses are paid, you'll see me staying at Motel 6, Red Roof Inn and Super 8. I'll watch government employees (let alone other contractors) at InterContinental and Hyatt Regency hotels.

 

[ninetysixcavy]

The Post office works?

The post office loses money where the UPS and FEDEX make money. The post office is the worst example of a "good" run govt agency.

Medicare doesnt work, its fuggin broke as in doesnt have any money and cost taxpayers BILLIONS upon BILLIONS...


Like someone said earlier in this thread, all you liberals that were against the Patriot act and warrentless wire taps( I was against this also) have no problem with the feds having 100% access to your private medical records and chosing what proceedure you get and don't get.

Why the faith in govt now all of a sudden???

And everyone please stop making this republican vs democrat. Its not, its about your right to freely choose a Dr and keep your info with him out of govt hands. Its also about care not being rationed. And anyone who has read this bill there is all kinds of talk about care being rationed. Even Obama himself has talked about just giving pain pills instead of giving hip replacements to old people. This is called rationing care.

+1

Actually, you can!

The USPS is actually not as much of an agency as you realize. They are more of a government sanctioned monopoly. Heck, they used to turn a profit! They were run quite well. They leveraged stamps and other "marketing" to great effect.

Unfortunately they started being stupid. Read up on what the USPS has been doing. My personal favorite is still them buying houses, houses for employees that were way bigger than anything on my block for people that make far, far less than what we do.

It's when government employees abuse expenses that we have problems. This has been my biggest complaint with US government and government monopolies -- the abuse by employee expenses as "standard operating procedure."

When I do work for the government on contract where my expenses are paid, you'll see me staying at Motel 6, Red Roof Inn and Super 8. I'll watch government employees (let alone other contractors) at InterContinental and Hyatt Regency hotels.

http://www.i2i.org/articles/4-2001.PDF

The USPS has an unfair monopoly on the industry. It is NOT fair, the tactics the USPS uses to maintain their infrastructure.

 

[Facetious]

Why stop with health care ? :dunno:

Nationalized dentistry, anybody ? :thefinger


The hopeful implementation of nationalized health care is nothing more than a medium for the unambitious lazy ass poohr to get over on those who actually have to get up and go to work in the morning. I'm so sick of these optionally lazy and poohr people trying to encourage misery for the working people.

Get 'toff yer ass ! Stop whining and be a man for once in your lifes !

I don't give a shit so much about what my contemporaries earn !
Why should that impede my motivation ?

 

[D-rock]

So...out of all you people complaining that the US postal service is broken and doesn't work how many of you actually want to completely do away with it and just have private corporations handle mail from now on? How about the same with the public school system or fire departments? I'm sure that would work out lovely. Yet, when it comes to medicine. Something that most of the civilized industrial Western world considers a human right, you people have no problem at all with it being a function of the market.

I find it funny all those other nations don't seem that upset with their public health care systems like we portray them to be, and would never even contemplate getting rid of it or significantly changing it. I don't think people even think rationally anymore or they are too easily influenced by scare tactics, insurance companies, drug companies, or health care corporations propaganda, or the threat of the "socialist bogyman". Then again maybe when people are just too stupid to do what's in not only their best interest, but in the interest of all of society, them maybe they don't deserve anything. Of course I just wish they wouldn't screw over people like me in the process.

Besides, we all know that no executive of a private corporation has every fleeced his shareholders to get a hold of extravagant homes or other perks or took bonuses that jacked up the price of something. It's also not like profit and only profit is the most important and only thing to them. They do everything they do out of the kindness of their hearts. I trust them sooooooo much more than the government. I’ve never known a corporation in my entire life that was even moderately large that didn’t screw up what it made, eventually corrupt anything it touched, cut corners, or couldn’t resist the urge for the race to the bottom.

The fact that we are probably not going to have a single payers system means we are already screwed. The insurance companies must be starting to go orgasmic with the possibilities that either the government is going to fund them and/or the government will force people to have insurance with them. For that reason a government run plan is critical. We must have a government run option. It will never happen but we also need to just totally socialize medicine. Health care just can't be considered a normal business. I'm not the biggest trusting person of government by any means, but you know the one thing I might trust even less than it,...businesses. Businesses should never be trusted to handle something that involves what is essentially a human right.

 

[bendover]

I think the solutions to our problems are going to require many changes:

1. Tort reform/limits on judgements in lawsuits.
2. Not pay for unnecessary tests.
3. Allow physician assistants to perform more tasks and prescribe certain drugs.
4. If a person is uninsured, and the facility gets government payments, like Medicare, they can charge an uninsured person no more than what a Medicare recipiant would pay.
5. Have public sector options - clinics that would compete. There are people that will $200 to get their hair done, but don't want to pay $200 to visit the doctor. If doctors charged the real market price to consumers, and there was not health insurance industry, the cost to see the doctor would drop, because they would only be able to charge what people could afford, or there would be no business.

Personally, the debate right now should be on jobs, not healthcare.

http://struggling.blogsubstation.com/focus-on-jobs-and-building-wealth-not-healthcare/

 

[Facetious]

Re: Health Care -

I think that the ultimate "deciders" of America's health care destiny should be in the hands of regular hard working TAXPAYING people.
You know, some are more equal than others.
What's the wrong with that ? :dunno:Nobody is griping about the politicians and their immediate families helping themselves to a lifetime of top quality pro choice medicine.

Why should ted kennedy be getting preferred treatment at this time in his life ? How about chris dud ? he's 65, didn't he recently help himself to premium private physician quality cancer treatment ?

Govt. mandatory / imposed health care is the only thing that the voluntary non working (lazy) stay at home and gripe people have in their arsenal to attack the people in the private sector, you know, the ones who work non govt. "outlaw" jobs. :crash::shocked:

The president is lying to us about what "health kare" covers and what it doesn't because he is using his race to be able to get away with the lies. Don't you dare question the good word of our savior almighty !
In other words :we're simply not going to go there and question the veracity of his socialist medicine campaign ! What is more important is that critics would actually have the temerity to question this great man .......... RACISTs !!! :rofl:


Back to the USPS for a sec. -

My 62 y/o uncle does "very good" working at the post office. He gets something like 5 - 6 weeks of vacation time every year, he drives a Porsche Cayman, he rents a cottage with detached garage AND he eats dinner over at his mother's house about 4 nights a week and expects her @ 83 years of age to cook his meals and do his dishes while he watches the ball games !
With every fiber of my being that is the truth. How could you possibly make that up ? Oh yeah, he works and lives in lib central Santa Cruz County.

I've never asked him what he does with that car of his. Does he actually park it in the P.O. parking lot ? :eek::dunno:

 

[ninetysixcavy]

Back to the USPS for a sec. -

My 62 y/o uncle does "very good" working at the post office. He gets something like 5 - 6 weeks of vacation time every year, he drives a Porsche Cayman, he rents a cottage with detached garage AND he eats dinner over at his mother's house about 4 nights a week and expects her @ 83 years of age to cook his meals and do his dishes while he watches the ball games !
With every fiber of my being that is the truth. How could you possibly make that up ? Oh yeah, he works and lives in lib central Santa Cruz County.

I've never asked him what he does with that car of his. Does he actually park it in the P.O. parking lot ? :eek::dunno:

The USPS is the most fraudulent organization in America. I've worked with them for the last, about seven years, through my dealings on eBay, and they have jerked the public around so much. They raise their fees every damn year; stamps have went up to some 100% in only a few years, all because the USPS claims that the internet has caused them to lose a fortune because of email. Still, without eBay, I wouldn't be at the USPS every week shipping out a box @ about 20 dollars every time. Liars, the USPS. Read that article. I had another that went into good detail about their dealings and how they are so corrupt.

Of course, I went downtown and took the test for one of their positions, and even though I scored high, probably because I was Caucasion I never heard back from them. Don't forget, the US Federal government is the largest employer in the country.

 

[blakey]

glenn beck
"america already has the best healtcare in the world"

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-13-2009/glenn-beck-s-operation

or does it -

have a look at the hypocrisy of this guy

 

[bodie54]

glenn beck
"america already has the best healtcare in the world"

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-13-2009/glenn-beck-s-operation

or does it -

have a look at the hypocrisy of this guy

:1orglaugh

That's so typical.
But....Glen understands his target (revenue generating) audience, knows how to appeal to them, and knows that even if they watched this clip it wouldn't give them a moments pause. That audience is on automatic pilot. Cognitive inconsistencies are dismissed out of hand.

 

[CunningStunts]

glenn beck
"america already has the best healtcare in the world"

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-13-2009/glenn-beck-s-operation

or does it -

have a look at the hypocrisy of this guy

If he's wrong, how come people from all over the world come to the US for treatments and surgery? I think they guy is a douche, but he's right.

 

[Friday on my mind]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090816/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_sebelius_health_care

Sebelius: Obama OK with insurance co-ops

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's health secretary is suggesting the White House is ready to accept nonprofit insurance cooperatives instead of a government-run public option in a health overhaul plan.

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius says Obama still believes there should be choice and competition" in the health insurance market — but that a public option is "not the essential element."

Obama has been pressing for the government to run a health insurance organization to help cover the nation's nearly 50 million uninsured. But he had not seen a not-for-profit co-op as sufficient to offer consumers choice and competition that would bring down the costs of private insurance.

Sebelius spoke on CNN's "State of the Union."




I don't see how anyone besides the insurance companies could object to this.But then again I didn't see how anyone could object to govt run option and would have competed with the for profit insurance companies.

The last paragraph worries me though.If this is not sufficient to bring down costs all this would have been for nothing.



Have you seen what the heads of these insurance companies get paid.Al Capone would be proud lol.
http://board.freeones.com/showpost.php?p=3506548&postcount=220

 

[Member2019]

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's health secretary is suggesting the White House is ready to accept nonprofit insurance cooperatives instead of a government-run public option in a health overhaul plan.

As long as there are several, it will work. He also needs to outlaw insurance from your employer, where there can still be a monopoly. People must have choice.

The lack of choice by individuals has been the continuing issue. For those of us that have insurance from a non-profit, it works extremely well.

 

[Boothbabe]

how come people from all over the world come to the US for treatments and surgery?

For the same reason they go to Germany, France, Belgium, Denmark or any other country for treatment or surgery. Because for whatever reason a certain procedure is not yet available in their own country or they can be helped faster because another country has a shorter waiting list for a certain procedure.

 

[CunningStunts]

For the same reason they go to Germany, France, Belgium, Denmark or any other country for treatment or surgery. Because for whatever reason a certain procedure is not yet available in their own country or they can be helped faster because another country has a shorter waiting list for a certain procedure.

Very true, but I keep hearing how the US system is "falling apart." Perhaps the biggest logical fallacy I hear from the White House is that the US health care system is in "crisis" and if we don't do something now, it will implode. Now I'm not naive enough to think that it's perfect or even close, and certainly there may be things we can do to help make it better. But the Obama Administration keeps using Medicare/Medicaid as the model for a good program, and then they say we can extend that to uninsured people to "keep costs down." There are a few problems with this argument, and these are the two that just don't make sense to me:

(1) Medicare/Medicaid are both projected to start going bankrupt earlier than the Government currently admits to, some say as early as within 5 years. Given this, why shouldn't we fix the current programs first? And if they are not as good as advertised, why should they serve as the "model" for a new program?

(2) The President says over and over that keeping costs down is the impetus. But by every projection out there, this new uber-plan will increase costs by at least $1 trillion over the next decade. And as we all know, everything the government does ALWAYS costs more than originally projected. So we are nearly $12 trillion in debt now, and we plan to "save" money by going further into debt?

 

[busenbust]

Looks like it's making an impact (News) across the pond also....UK NHS gets a mention (derogatory).

 

[Friday on my mind]

Very true, but I keep hearing how the US system is "falling apart." Perhaps the biggest logical fallacy I hear from the White House is that the US health care system is in "crisis" and if we don't do something now, it will implode. Now I'm not naive enough to think that it's perfect or even close, and certainly there may be things we can do to help make it better. But the Obama Administration keeps using Medicare/Medicaid as the model for a good program, and then they say we can extend that to uninsured people to "keep costs down." There are a few problems with this argument, and these are the two that just don't make sense to me:

(1) Medicare/Medicaid are both projected to start going bankrupt earlier than the Government currently admits to, some say as early as within 5 years. Given this, why shouldn't we fix the current programs first? And if they are not as good as advertised, why should they serve as the "model" for a new program?

(2) The President says over and over that keeping costs down is the impetus. But by every projection out there, this new uber-plan will increase costs by at least $1 trillion over the next decade. And as we all know, everything the government does ALWAYS costs more than originally projected. So we are nearly $12 trillion in debt now, and we plan to "save" money by going further into debt?

I have never heard the administration talk about extending the medicare/medicade programs to the uninsured.I would like that idea but they have not gone there.

You can't fix medicare/medicade in a vacuum.You have to approach it as comprehensive reform or it wll not accomplish anything.Medicare/medicade operate in the current cost structure driven by the private sector.

But I have to admit as this goes on it seems real refrom is slipping away and the health care lobbys have once again killed it like they did in the 90s.

Longer we wait ,the more of our economy will be sucked up by health care.

As I mentioned in another thread if you just look at demographics of the country (it's aging population) a crisis is not far off.Not just with this but with all the other related issues,social security etc.

When boomers are retired the pressure on all those systems will be immense.Younger people will be the ones who pay for us and they won't like it but they will have to do it.

One benefit of doing nothing is that well see other parts of the budget cut to provide those retires their needed benefits.Cut defense budget is what I mean primarily.Between the power of the retired boomers as a lobby and the rest of countrys population who for the most part will agree they must be taken care of their will be no alternative to slashing other areas of govt spending to accomodate the increased costs.

So go ahead support basically doing nothing.Hope your happy paying 40% or more in taxes with most of that going to retires health care and social security.

Looks like it's making an impact (News) across the pond also....UK NHS gets a mention (derogatory).

All the other countrys systems have been taking a pounding from conservatives and republicans for some time now.Thats where the title of my thread here came from.Republican house members saying more will die if we get systems similar to theirs.

 

[mrtrebus]

The colonials are coming to save our 'ass' (as they would no doubt put it!)
http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2009/08/...ary-action’-to-liberate-britain-from-the-nhs/

 

[Baill Inneraora]

Sometimes Silence is Golden

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x357193

 

[CunningStunts]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090819/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_health_care_consultants

Hmmm....

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensm...ers_in_matters_of_life_and_death.html?showall

Hmmmm....

Replace "Obama" in these articles with "Bush." Now, what do you think the media coverage would be like if it was Bush.

What if the Bush Administration did this to an industry because they wouldn't play ball?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/200...obe-house-dems-reprisal-opposing-obamas-plan/

And finally, for your consideration... Canada's "model" system... lol
http://freep.com/article/20090820/BUSINESS06/908200420/1319/