Republicans block extra taxes on oil companies

In this respect we are in between a rock and a hard place, but for the record I find the only thing that I actually trust less than a government is a corporation. As flawed as the system is at least we can still elect government officials or at least the lesser of two evils and have some minute measure of control over them. Every corporation in the world larger than a mom and pop shop has pretty much become nothing more than an institution of maximizing greed above all else to the detriment of their community, country, and the rest of the world. Most of the time the only alternative is to go buy a product from an equally bad corporation that knows you have no choice because nobody is better than they are. The system makes sure of that. Unless you engage to the race to the bottom, buy off government officials, and become as bad as the next business you're cast aside in a system that doesn’t work for you. We live in a world where people are actually punished for doing the ethical and moral things in business. I'm always surprised at the number of people that hang onto an economic system like it's a religion, like unhindered capitalism for instance, yet unlike a religion they have constant proof staring them in the face it doesn't work. People, especially the poorer ones don't even have the choice that the proponents of unrestricted capitalism like to hold up as a highlight to itself. Not unless you count choosing to die as a choice. The system doesn't reward people that deserve it. It rewards people that earn money off the blood, sweat, tears, and even the lives of others, while giving those people the least amount they can possibly get away with. That's the reality of the world. Changing it would be nice but both the government and the corporations are in lock step with each other and fund and support each other so that it makes it pretty much impossible anymore (outside of maybe violence anyhow) to stop. It's a vicious cycle that fuels each other and gives all the power to them, the few, while screwing the rest of us.

If we were actually going to do the right thing we would have seeked out alternatives to energy a long time ago for the betterment of everybody, and told the oil companies and foreign oil powers to screw off. Sure it wouldn't have been easy, and it would have been more expensive then, it would have took a tremendous amount of resource, and would have taken time but I guess that's just another failure of capitalism. Nobody even took alternative forms of energy seriously until people saw there might be a future profit in it. Too bad it could very well be too late by this time. We were unwilling to do what we needed to do. Our vaunted economic system let this problem occur because it, and the people under it that are forced to be this way along with our greed, couldn’t be in something that didn't involve maximizing profit and taking the quick and easy route. It was too easy to keep destroying our own planet and eventually us in the process if it brought in the money faster and was cheaper for us. You can't have an entire system who's functioning needs everybody's mutual greed to survive and have good things come out of it in the very end. The world doesn't work that way. At least if you want to make things better. Someday to survive we are going to have to understand that milking every last possible cent you can out of this world isn't the most important thing in life. We are also going to have to realize that we all need to make sacrifices, every last one of us instead of screwing each other over and backstabbing everybody else besides yourself because you feel it's the only way to get ahead. Who knows maybe it is the only way to get ahead, but that's why not doing it is a sacrifice.

The price we pay for energy now and in the future and how it's utilized and who gets it is just one of the consequences to the type of world we live in. Unless we all change the way we do things nothing is going to get better for a long time. I don't see Star-Trek like technology coming about any time in the remotely near future to save the day.(And even if there was some corporation would want you to pay ridiculous amounts for it even if it cost them nothing so only the wealthy would get it). We are going to have to make what we have work as best as we can for everybody.
 
Scary ...

In this respect we are in between a rock and a hard place, but for the record I find the only thing that I actually trust less than a government is a corporation. As flawed as the system is at least we can still elect government officials or at least the lesser of two evils and have some minute measure of control over them ...
Scary.

As a consumer, you have more of a direct, regular and repeat control over a corporation than an elected official. Furthermore, corporations either make profits or they die, whereas governments have a tendency to keep spending more and have no such balance.

Corporations may bend laws, may influence and lobby for them, but they don't make them. Governments make and enforce laws, and giving them more power is even more dangerous as there is no balance against them.

Unlike private enterprises. In fact, it's the government that often makes private enterprises worse, like with monopolies. This is the first American generation that doesn't realize that.

"Oh government, please save me from evil corporations!"
 
They would have just passed the cost of the taxes into the price for a gallon of gas and the consumers would end up paying it.


Why is it that the Dems can't see that? Isn't that what they do to cigarrette companies to elevate the cost therefore thinking that smokers would give it up since they have to pay more. Besides those companies are their retirement plans and if they really want to see things get worse then have them try to take on OPEC. Saddly oil is the power that drives this world and taxing it would only make gasoline more expensive.
 
Re: Scary ...

Scary.

As a consumer, you have more of a direct, regular and repeat control over a corporation than an elected official.

you are absolutely correct. think about what would happen if every American said, "hey, Oil Companies, your prices suck and we aren't going to pay them." and tommorrow no one got in thier cars. Can you imagine it? What if they did it for good?

and what if they applied that same action towards politics?

now that's a scary thought. It's called democracy. or maybe revolution.

Sadly it will never happen, not even for one day for something so simple that everyone could do.
 
Re: Scary ...

you are absolutely correct. think about what would happen if every American said, "hey, Oil Companies, your prices suck and we aren't going to pay them." and tommorrow no one got in thier cars. Can you imagine it? What if they did it for good?
I irony is that too many Americans forget the '70s, Nixon and price fixing, countless other things done, etc... We're seeing the same repeat attitudes and total disregard for our future.

Nothing has changed in 40 years. We're still blaming everyone but ourselves.
 
Re: Scary ...

Scary.

As a consumer, you have more of a direct, regular and repeat control over a corporation than an elected official. Furthermore, corporations either make profits or they die, whereas governments have a tendency to keep spending more and have no such balance.
Corporations may bend laws, may influence and lobby for them, but they don't make them. Governments make and enforce laws, and giving them more power is even more dangerous as there is no balance against them.

Unlike private enterprises. In fact, it's the government that often makes private enterprises worse, like with monopolies. This is the first American generation that doesn't realize that.

"Oh government, please save me from evil corporations!"

Goddammit Prof, you nailed it again!

Here's the Cliff Notes folks:

- Business profits or it dies, government can run on debt forever because they just take our money when they need more. Who's the bad guy there?
 
Re: Scary ...

Goddammit Prof, you nailed it again!

Here's the Cliff Notes folks:

- Business profits or it dies, government can run on debt forever because they just take our money when they need more. Who's the bad guy there?

The oil companies clearly benefit from U.S. government tax breaks that are shouldered by us. Why should I as a tax payer shoulder benefit taxes with gas at $4 a gallon and allow the oil companys to post record profits?

you cant have it both ways.. Ask the goverment for help than complain about it when it is taken away.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/19/business/oil.php
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/02/tax_breaks_for_.html
 
Drilling in Anwar will not reduce the price of gas, since the world market sets pricing. Do you think if we allow it, the U.S. oil companys will give us a discount? Refineries really come down to NIMBY and improved profit margins, since less product in a high demand market means better profits.

If lack of refineries are the issue, why are the U.S. oil companies have a boom in profits?

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/print_does_the_us_lack_sufficient_oil_refining.html
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10554471
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4296812.stm


Anwar does not contain anywhere near enough reserves that if it was drilled it would have much affect on world price of crude.And since the oil companies have said they do not wish to build new refineries(they like the situation as is for obvious reasons) who should build them the govt? To many here seem to be fine that in addition to the price of gas going up because crude has, the oil companies are adding in some so that they make even more than the big profits they always had.I think its more that fair they pass on the new costs for oil they may be paying but more than that is something else.
 

elict47

Banned
the dem's want to turn us into the old Soviet Union, you cannot take away the incentive for companies to make money, the old companies are not making excessive profits on a per unit basis. If you want to look at excessive profits look at the drug companies during their patent protection period
 
the dem's want to turn us into the old Soviet Union, you cannot take away the incentive for companies to make money, the old companies are not making excessive profits on a per unit basis. If you want to look at excessive profits look at the drug companies during their patent protection period

Actually the most offensive company profit wise has to be Walmart who has the biggest profits in the world.All that while they only provide health care to about 1/2 their employees and also offer fairly low wages.And before anybody says it ,don't worry I don't patronize them lol.
 
There's too much misguided right-wing wacko dumbassery in this thread for me to "correct" all in one post...

Basically, to all the "drill our way to freedom" people who think Anwar Province or California or Florida hold our "freedom oil"...just use your brains for a minute. Let's say Congress agrees with Big Oil and you Wackoes and opens the Entire U.S. for oil drilling..how long will it be before we feel the benefits of this oil? Next Monday? A month from now? A year from now? Try minimum 5 years. It takes 18 months to build a deep water oil drilling platform from scratch. Then you have to move it and install it. Then you have to drill. How long does it take to drill? It's not like this oil is just below the surface or splashing on the coast. It's deep, deep, deep down. All the "low hanging fruit" oil has long been tapped..

Is it really reasonable to throw aside environmental concerns for oil that we can't benefit from for several years from now?

Taking back the $18Billion in tax breaks is perfectly reasonable. We need that money to do our own gov't sponsored Alternative Fuel research. We are fools if we think Big Oil is going to bring some great new perfect alternative fuel to market. They are Oil companies. THat's their business. Plain and simple.

It's much harder to tax "reasonable profits." What's reasonable to me is probably not the same to others. How can we reach a fair consensus?

If Cheney and Bush really believed that Iraq had all this oil reserves that "the oil will pay for the war" or whatever it was Cheney said...well...take a look around. Oil is now $4 and heading to $5 by July 4. So much for Cheney's "wisdom" or the laws of supply and demand...

Why do we think American Market "forces" and policies apply to countries that don't practice our form of capitalism?
 
There's too much misguided right-wing wacko dumbassery in this thread for me to "correct" all in one post...

Basically, to all the "drill our way to freedom" people who think Anwar Province or California or Florida hold our "freedom oil"...just use your brains for a minute. Let's say Congress agrees with Big Oil and you Wackoes and opens the Entire U.S. for oil drilling..how long will it be before we feel the benefits of this oil? Next Monday? A month from now? A year from now? Try minimum 5 years. It takes 18 months to build a deep water oil drilling platform from scratch. Then you have to move it and install it. Then you have to drill. How long does it take to drill? It's not like this oil is just below the surface or splashing on the coast. It's deep, deep, deep down. All the "low hanging fruit" oil has long been tapped..

Is it really reasonable to throw aside environmental concerns for oil that we can't benefit from for several years from now?

Taking back the $18Billion in tax breaks is perfectly reasonable. We need that money to do our own gov't sponsored Alternative Fuel research. We are fools if we think Big Oil is going to bring some great new perfect alternative fuel to market. They are Oil companies. THat's their business. Plain and simple.

It's much harder to tax "reasonable profits." What's reasonable to me is probably not the same to others. How can we reach a fair consensus?

If Cheney and Bush really believed that Iraq had all this oil reserves that "the oil will pay for the war" or whatever it was Cheney said...well...take a look around. Oil is now $4 and heading to $5 by July 4. So much for Cheney's "wisdom" or the laws of supply and demand...

Why do we think American Market "forces" and policies apply to countries that don't practice our form of capitalism?

So then.... continuing to pay Saudi Arabia and Venzuela exorbitant prices for crude oil, and NOT starting to drill for oil here, and develop other methods of energy is... right wing dumbassery?

Taxes, especially increases in them, are not the answer for anything except the question- how can we give the government more of our money to waste?

And hey- congress is democrat controlled right now- in order to block all this stuff, there must have been some of them that voted against this, eh? ;) And what you meant was that gasoline is $4, heading to $5. If oil was only $4 a barrel right now, we'd be loving it :D Now I will agree with you that oil companies (Why does everyone insist on calling them 'big oil'- is there 'small oil'?) should have their tax breaks taken away. EVERYONE should have tax breaks taken away. We should have a much simpler, much more effective tax code- but we don't. And don't think that the democrat heroes are in any way in favor of making one, any more than the republicans. They both love money- especially OUR money.

Five years... I'll be in my forties, and still driving. Yeah, I can cope with a five year delay in the domestic crude oil becoming gasoline.

H
 
So then.... continuing to pay Saudi Arabia and Venzuela exorbitant prices for crude oil, and NOT starting to drill for oil here, and develop other methods of energy is... right wing dumbassery?

Taxes, especially increases in them, are not the answer for anything except the question- how can we give the government more of our money to waste?

And hey- congress is democrat controlled right now- in order to block all this stuff, there must have been some of them that voted against this, eh? ;) And what you meant was that gasoline is $4, heading to $5. If oil was only $4 a barrel right now, we'd be loving it :D Now I will agree with you that oil companies (Why does everyone insist on calling them 'big oil'- is there 'small oil'?) should have their tax breaks taken away. EVERYONE should have tax breaks taken away. We should have a much simpler, much more effective tax code- but we don't. And don't think that the democrat heroes are in any way in favor of making one, any more than the republicans. They both love money- especially OUR money.

Five years... I'll be in my forties, and still driving. Yeah, I can cope with a five year delay in the domestic crude oil becoming gasoline.

H

Takes more than a majority to get things done in the senate like this.You need 60 votes.Actually one dem did not vote for it,but 7 republicans did.

"At the Capitol, Democratic leaders needed 60 votes and they got only 51 senators' support, including seven Republicans who bucked their party leaders. Sen. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, a state tied closely to the oil industry, was the only Democrat opposing the bill."
 
Takes

Trust me, look at the record. Democrats have blocked every single effort to make America more oil free of the east. Their fuckin interests in the environment are now killing us all.

Both parties have to some degree.And its been a reflection of the will of the people.Yes dems have been more receptive to the enviormental concerns which are real by the way.But pubs have blocked conservation efforts which are a big key to not being so dependant on oil.But the people have wanted the enviorment to be considered and have opposed things like nuclear power and off shore drilling.Wasn't dems in Florida who said no to drilling off the coast it was Jeb Bush and the pubs responding to people's concerns over damage from spills to tourism.I support new nukes especially as they are not going to add to the Co2 problem which again is a real problem.We could drill off shore and in alaska but without radical conservation or new energy such as nukes and wind it would not mean hardly any reduction in imports of oil and would mean continued destruction of the enviorment.People have wanted it all , energy ,a clean enviorment,no nukes etc.Thats not possible and its not politicians that are to blame for not being able to wave a magic wand and make that happen from eithier party.
But this is all off topic anyway,this is about oil companies maximizing profits while the country is hurting from the prices.
 
the dem's want to turn us into the old Soviet Union, you cannot take away the incentive for companies to make money, the old companies are not making excessive profits on a per unit basis. If you want to look at excessive profits look at the drug companies during their patent protection period

The Republicans are the ones blocking help to the U.S. consumer. If you are happy with gas prices and the U.S. government helping oil companies make record profits with the help of your dollar, we are right on track.

What does the old soviet union have to do with gas at $4 a gallon? Gas was a $1.29 when the old guard ran the USSR.
 
Actually the most offensive company profit wise has to be Walmart who has the biggest profits in the world.All that while they only provide health care to about 1/2 their employees and also offer fairly low wages.And before anybody says it ,don't worry I don't patronize them lol.

At least you're not a hypocrite. But you are wrong. Walmart doesn't make nearly the profit of most companies with similar revenue. They profit about 3 cents on every 1.00 taken in.

Bashing Wal-Mart is so 2006...get with the times....

Back to oil....
The reason you and me are paying so much is mostly because of Democrats. People are upset that Republicans don't want to tax oil companies. But why should we care? We should care about all of the taxes on gasoline that Democrats have put in place. Taxing at the pumps (democrats) hurts us...taxing at the source (big oil) will just raise prices, too. So anyone blaming republicans for gas prices needs a reality check

Plus, the reason oil companies won't build refineries here is that environmental whackos have made the laws too restrictive. Nowadays, you couldn't possibly run or build a profitable refinery with all the restrictions democrats have put in place.
 
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