Religion of Peace

[Ulysses31]

Not saying that it isn't a legitimate issue that some fear immigration by those that they feel are incompatibale with their culture/values. I think it's normal for humans to want to associate with embrace those that are more like 'themselves'.

But at 2 or 3 percent of the populace I just didn't see where Norway has been overrun by Muslims.

Right wing propaganda that started following 9/11, every single crime involving a muslim became front page news giving the impression there was some sort of epidemic, the papers would always write about the offender being muslim even if their crime was not religion orientated. When you consider how many millions of Muslims live in Europe if they were truly destructive on the whole wouldn't we hear about 100s - 1000s of crimes per week and well as countless terrorist attacks. The war on terror (basically Islam as the IRA, Basque seperatists or Tamil Tigers were 'overlooked') following 9/11 led to an illegal and unjust war in Iraq as well as Afghanistan being blamed for 9/11 eventhough the planning most likely took place somewhere in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. As many muslims died in these conflicts (probably over a million but the US forgot to employ someone to count ) there became growing resentment to the west from not only the muslims there but those living in the west as it became clear the reasoning for the wars were based on schoolboy errors, many became angry and isolated themselves by 'covering up' whilst others had their anger taken advantage of by hate preachers who pushed the whole concept that the west was at war with Islam and the lies uncovered about the Iraq war only backed their claim. The terror attacks in Madrid, London and Bali were a direct result of the war on terror (MI5's words not mine) and this is why they are rarely remembered/mentioned by politicians or the media who pushed for the Iraq/Afghan war. Up until 2001 in the UK I don't remember any anti-muslim stories ever appearing in the papers or any notable attacks in europe but after 9/11 it seemed all muslims were demonised for the acts of a few extremists and when people get pushed into a corner they react in different ways. I think the situation is probably beyond salvation but the quicker the west stops interfering in muslim countries half way around the world the better and after that the situation may ease, Obama and Cameron both realise this and are eager to make peace with the Taliban and get the hell out of Afghanistan.

 

[Trident1]

Just sounds like the paranoia/phobia sometimes associated with far right wing thinking.

It's not paranoia.

http://www.hudson-ny.org/1612/european-multiculturalism-end



The Muslim populations :


http://pewforum.org/PublicationPage.aspx?id=1497

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1872/muslim-population-projections-worldwide-fast-growth

 

[Atar554]

There's a lot of generalization and judging many on the actions of a few in here. I can't help but ask, what percentage of Christians are murderers? What percentage of murderers are religious? I'm unsure, but I can guess that it's very small. But some of you are willing to condemn all of them.

Hate and intolerance is what causes war. You are just as bad as those fundamentalists. You are part of the problem.

Most people who are in prison are religious and in America, Christian.

If this religion known as Islam were another institution that was secular we would be asking what needs to be reformatted.

Take Welfare. Most who support it and practically all that are against it feel there needs to be a way for people that shouldn't be receiving the money to not get it. In other words stop the scamming.

In Religion if a group or sect monopolizes and in large part takes the reigns of the religion then we are told be tolerant and placate our calls for change. Even if one person uses the religion for violence we are told it's just one of many.

But that's not the point; the point is the manipulation of religion and its' inability to adapt or change to counter the zealotry, bigotry and ignorance it allows. Every organization is flawed but few thrive rather than just survive like a religious organization.

Everything they do is protected, even when extremeism is the main voice heard from the community; you're still expected to just get over it.

A good example would be sex offenders lists. There's tons of people registered as a sex offender that did things that honestly shouldn't be considered illegal; there's also a few that are wrongly accused but that doesn't matter.

If you're on the list it's decided for you where you live and where you can move and work etc... They aren't given the compassion of foregiveness by their Musilm and Christian and Jewish neighbors. It's a double standard in favor of religion. Unless of course you're a preist who molests little boys; then you get the protection of the Church.

 

[KillTheIndustry]

Most people who are in prison are religious and in America, Christian.

Do you have proof of this? I have also heard of many people becoming religious in prison, seeking forgiveness for what they've done. So I would also have to wonder how religious they were when they committed their crime.

Basically, how many people are better because of their religion, and how many are worse? What is the ratio? And is it enough to condemn them either way?

 

[Atar554]

Do you have proof of this? I have also heard of many people becoming religious in prison, seeking forgiveness for what they've done. So I would also have to wonder how religious they were when they committed their crime.

Basically, how many people are better because of their religion, and how many are worse? What is the ratio? And is it enough to condemn them either way?

Well it depends on your perameters really. There are different types of religious people; some that worship, pray and attend. Others that believe and don't participate fully.

From what I've seen around if you cut out the people that don't participate you get about half the population in prison considering thsemselves to be religious. If you count those that believe in God and and afterlife or have a religious preference then the number goes much higher.

However I wonder why personally it's not acceptible for a person to go through hardship like prison and take up religion once they get there. As they say "there's no atheists in foxholes". Not only is that a false generalization but it's a touting of how great it is to be desperate and cling to religion.



http://www.adherents.com/misc/adh_prison.html

Appendix: 1997 Federal Bureau of Prisons from Denise Golumbaski, as formatted in Rice/Swift
Note that in this version, the names of a couple of religious groups remain non-standardized, and self-identified "Atheist" remains separate from "Unknown/None."
Response Number %
---------------------------- --------
Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Muslim 5435 7.273%
American Indian 2408 3.222%
Nation 1734 2.320%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Moorish 1066 1.426%
Buddhist 882 1.180%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%
Scientology 190 0.254%
Atheist 156 0.209%
Hindu 119 0.159%
Santeria 117 0.157%
Sikh 14 0.019%
Bahai 9 0.012%
Krishna 7 0.009%
---------------------------- --------
Total Known Responses 74731 100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)

Unknown/No Answer 18381
----------------------------
Total Convicted 93112 80.259% (74731) prisoners' religion is known.

Held in Custody 3856 (not surveyed due to temporary custody)
----------------------------
Total In Prisons 96968

 

[girk1]

Fascinating that the Left and Neo-Nazis share the same hatreds of Jews.

If the Far left hates Jews as you foolishly claim(some
Right wingers claim that about Obama) then American Jews must be masochists as they seem to be gluttons for punishment. They have been the Left's most loyal voting Block since 1940 in National Elections(Blacks next):

Presidential Elections since 1940 and the Democratic percentage(%) of the Jewish vote:

1940- FDR- 90% JEWISH VOTE ( His new Deal was among the most liberal platforms ever.Social Security,WPA,etc.......

1944- FDR-90%


1948- Truman-75%(The Jewish vote was split by the farther left Progressive Party which got 15%)

1952- A Stevenson S.-64%
1956- Stevenson- 60%
1960- JFK- 82%
1964-LBJ-90%- Along with FDR one of the most liberal Presidencies ever with his new Society(Medicare,Welfare,Medicaid,Stamps,etc........

1968- Humphrey-81%
1972- McGovern- 65%
1976 J Carter-71%
1980-Carter- (45% was the first and ONLY time since FDR that the Dems didn't receive at least 60% of the Jewish vote)

1984- Mondale- 67%
1988- Dukakis-64%

1992 -B Clinton- 80%
1996 -Clinton - 78%
2000- Gore- 78%
2004- Kerry- 76%
2008 - Obama 77%

Now either you are accusing American Jews of not being very bright or they are masochists.

The Jewish community have been some of our most important Leaders of the the Left and Even I must admit FAR Left. Extreme Left like Marx,Trotsksy, Lenin,etc......and Americans like Saul Alinsky and others who were prominent in the Civil Rights movement ,creating the NAACP,etc.......

And before you so rudely interrupted with some Neo conservative nonsense about liberals hating Jews:1orglaugh I was asking Meesterperfect a question.

Did Hitler hate Jews because of their proiminence within Communism/Socialism (which he hated) and with Marx, Trotsky,Lenin and many other prominent Jews? Did he see Communism/Socialism/Liberalism as being nearly synonomous with Jews since they were it's main proponents?

Go learn a thing or two Trident and stop repeating this Right Wing nonsense about Liberals like Obama hating Jews/Israel. Just because the Left isn't obssessed with Neo con obssession with Israel and religious prophecy doesn'tmean they hate Jews.

The Jewish community can see through that bullshit you are ignorantly parroting. Not my problem that neocons and neo nazishave basically the same Far Right agenda.

Neo cons and Neo Nazis are slightly seperated by a couple key issues. Neo cons are Pro Israel and pro Intervention while Neo Nazis have no use for Israel and prefer Isolationism. Ron Paul is the Darling of Neo Nazis/White Nationiolist because he is not some over the top Pro Israel nor is he for military intervention.

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

2-3 percent of the population of Norway is Muslim. That number has held fairly steady according to CNN since the 80's. I dont' see where Norway is being overrun by Muslims.:dunno:
unless he feared some imagined future waves of Muslim that would overrun Norway? Or was he striking out for the entirety of Europe?



Just sounds like the paranoia/phobia sometimes associated with far right wing thinking.

It was reported on CNN that 1 in 4 born in Oslo today are Arab and/or Muslim.

 

[Ulysses31]

It was reported on CNN that 1 in 4 born in Oslo today are Arab and/or Muslim.

Not very surprising and probably the same in London. You'll find that recently arrived immigrants tend to congregate together in the poor suburbs of the larger cities so a large percentage of Oslo like London will be recently arrived Muslims, go outside of Oslo and the figure for muslim births will be like 0.5 in a 100. In a generation or two as the children of these immigrants go through the education system and go on to get well paid jobs they will leave Oslo for more tranquil parts of Norway, you could say the same of the Irish who left the poverty of Ireland to go to the states and all congregated in cities like New York where again a large percentage of kids born there will have been of Irish Catholic descent.



From wikipedia

Islam is the largest minority religion in Norway, which consist between 2.0% and 3.4% of the population. In 2007, government statistics registered 79,068 members of Islamic congregations in Norway, about 10% more than in 2006.[1] 56% lived in the counties of Oslo and Akershus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Norway

 

[Njosnavelin]

I've never heard of a catholic suicide bomber. In fact I think they fit in quite well into the american pyramid.:nanner:

 

[ragincaucasian]

Do you have proof of this?

http://www.adherents.com/misc/adh_prison.html

Basically, how many people are better because of their religion, and how many are worse? What is the ratio? And is it enough to condemn them either way?

NONE

what is even funnier is the religious folks in this country, who make a big stink about sticking up for their superstition.......BUT LIVE EXACTLY THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE

 

[Mr_Balls]

I ship out for boot camp in 7 days guys.
24 Years old and I am joining the Marine Corps.

Hey do us a favor and vote Obama back into office.
I feel old as dirt next to the other recruits.

 

[Trident1]

If the Far left hates Jews as you foolishly claim(some

Foolishly claim?


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/849114/posts


http://adamholland.blogspot.com/2008/05/why-does-british-left-hate-israel.html

http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/01/why_does_the_left_hate_israel.html


http://www.internationalwallofprayer.org/A-296-Why-The-Left-Hates-Israel.html


http://www.newsrealblog.com/2011/01/01/the-new-york-times-wont-be-happy-until-all-jews-hate-themselves/


http://frontpagemag.com/2011/03/11/why-totalitarians-hate-jews/



http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=85


http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/european-left-is-more-dangerous-for-jews-than-the-european-right/



http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1063223/posts


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/7278532/Jews-leave-Swedish-city-after-sharp-rise-in-anti-Semitic-hate-crimes.html


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4086872,00.html





Need I say more? The Left along with the self hating Jews called Kapos are much more influential than a bunch of dimwit skinheads.

 

[KillTheIndustry]

NONE

what is even funnier is the religious folks in this country, who make a big stink about sticking up for their superstition.......BUT LIVE EXACTLY THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Either you're saying there is no such thing as a good religious person (a hell of a claim), or you're admitting religion or no religion, people live the same. Therefore, if they are good or bad, religion has nothing to do with it. People are just good or bad.

And, hey, if you don't believe in God or the devil, then that's the only way to look at it. You can't call a force that doesn't exist as the cause of people doing evil.

 

[girk1]

Foolishly claim?


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/849114/posts


http://adamholland.blogspot.com/2008/05/why-does-british-left-hate-israel.html

http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/01/why_does_the_left_hate_israel.html


http://www.internationalwallofprayer.org/A-296-Why-The-Left-Hates-Israel.html


http://www.newsrealblog.com/2011/01/01/the-new-york-times-wont-be-happy-until-all-jews-hate-themselves/


http://frontpagemag.com/2011/03/11/why-totalitarians-hate-jews/



http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=85


http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/european-left-is-more-dangerous-for-jews-than-the-european-right/



http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1063223/posts


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/7278532/Jews-leave-Swedish-city-after-sharp-rise-in-anti-Semitic-hate-crimes.html


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4086872,00.html





Need I say more? The Left along with the self hating Jews called Kapos are much more influential than a bunch of dimwit skinheads.

Complete idiocy.

So 75-90% of American Jews who support and actually take the lead on Progressive causes are not dumb but 'self hating' because they vote OVERWHELMINGLY Liberal? :1orglaugh

Because they don't obssess over a single issue(Israel ) like right wing lunatics who see Israel as part of some biblical prophecy?

African Americans are 'self hating' because they don't obssess over African issues? Asian Americans are 'self hating' because they aren't obssessed over issues involving Asia? Whites are 'self hating' because they don't fervently obssess over Europe or European issues?


That's the most insulting and idiotic bullshit I have ever heard coming from a supposed person(you) who claims he sympathizes with Jews(because of some alleged family legend about your grandmother:crying:), but now you claim that most Jews are SELF HATING?

Self Hating because MOST American Jews politics/political philosophy is the exact opposite of people like YOU and the rest of the Far right loons?

80-90% American Jews have no stomach nor never had a stomach for Right Wing politics and that's a FACT

From Karl Marx to Trotsky to Lenin, to Salinsky,etc.......Jews have been steadfast in their opposition the the FAR RIGHT.

Don't underestimate some dimwitted skinheads(who philosophies you are in line with your openly bigoted posts about Blacks,Muslims.(minoprities),etc......

Jews once laughed at those FAR Right 'dimwitted' Nazis(Hitler and his stormtroopers) who bungled the Beer Hall Putsch(?) and failed miserably to overthrow the German government by force. Only later to take control and nearly drive Jews into extinction during the Holocaust.

Most American Jews , by far, have NEVER been Far Right supporters and to call 80-90% of Jews 'self hating' because they generally detest the Far Right is insulting and very very ignorant.

 

[Juliuscaesar]

Okay, how did Islam spread from Saudi Arabia to as far as Spain and North Africa during the 7th and 8th centuries?Muslims conquered the Sassanids in Persia and most of the Asiatic and African provinces of the Byzantine Empire.In 732, during an expedition to France to subdue France, the Franks under Charles the Hammer and with the support of the Catholic Church broke the Muslim horde.The Muslim army had been looting monasteries in southern France, and were looking towards bringing what was then Europe into the Islamic world, and therefore, killing modern Western Europe in the cradle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC94Fel5-jI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m64tVi_rrLo

 

[Juliuscaesar]

Heinrich Himmler, who was the head of the SS, had some fine words to say about Islam.

British historian Peter Longerich recently published a 1035-page study on Himmler quoting, inter alia, from documents in the German Federal Archives in Berlin ("Bundesarchiv Berlin"). Longerich quotes Himmler as saying in November 1944 that Islam is "a practical and sympathetic religion for soldiers." "It promises that those who fall in battle will go to heaven."

We find similar quotes in Kersten's 1952 book. On December 1, 1942, Himmler told Kersten:

"Mohammed knew that most people are terribly cowardly and stupid. That is why he promised two beautiful women to every courageous warrior who dies in battle. This is the kind of language a soldier understands. When he believes that he will be welcomed in this manner in the afterlife, he will be willing to give his life, he will be enthusiastic about going to battle and not fear death. You may call this primitive and you may laugh about it, but it is based on deeper wisdom. A religion must speak a man's language."

Himmler, whose parents were devout and conservative Bavarian Catholics, publicly left the Catholic Church in the summer of 1936. In his conversations with Kersten he later lashed out against the Catholic Church, the Vatican and Christianity in general. Christianity does not promise anything to the soldiers and warriors who die in battle, Himmler said. They either go to hell or heaven – there is just no reward for fighting bravely. "And now compare this, Herr Kersten, to the religion of the Mohammedans, a religion of people's soldiers."

In other words, Himmler admired the Muslim concept of martyrdom: if you die on the battlefield as a jihadist (Muslim holy warrior) and so become a martyr, you will be amply rewarded in the afterlife ("paradise"). This is precisely what Haj Amin Al-Husseini told the Muslim soldiers in the SS.

It was in the first half of 1942 that Himmler and an SS officer named Adolf Eichmann befriended this firebrand cleric – the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem whom the Nazis had welcomed to Berlin. Haj Amin Al-Husseini, whose hatred of the Jews equaled that of the Nazis, arrived in Nazi Germany in November 1941 and was received by Hitler that same month. The Grand Mufti wanted the Nazis to approve his plan for a pro-Nazi Muslim fighting force or "Arab legion." Hitler initially declined, but Himmler was enthusiastic about the idea. In November 1943, the SS Reichsführer sent a telegram to the Grand Mufti, saying there existed "a natural bond between National Socialist Greater Germany and the freedom loving Mohammedans throughout the world."

Earlier that year, a special Muslim unit had been created inside Himmler's "Waffen-SS" (the combat arm of the SS). It was called the "SS-Handschar Division" and largely consisted of Bosnian Muslims. In 1944, the Handschar Division committed serious war crimes in Yugoslavia killing Serb civilians. (After the war, Yugoslav leader Marshall Tito wanted Al-Husseini for war crimes but the French and the British had no intention of upsetting the Arab world.) Al-Husseini traveled to Sarajevo in October 1944 to address his men from the Handschar Division. He said that the National Socialist and the Islamic world view largely ran parallel. "The Germans are the real friends of the 400 million Muslims," he added. In April 1944, the SS founded its own "Imam training school" in Guben, near Cottbus. Himmler strongly supported this initiative and the Grand Mufti gave the opening ceremony speech.

Himmler told his masseur Felix Kersten on December 2, 1942, that he was reading serious books on the "Mohammedan religion." When the war was over, he said, he wanted to visit the Islamic countries himself with a view to continuing his studies. "Look, how wise ("vernünftig") this religion is."

http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/3964

 

[ragincaucasian]

DerP


How do you think Christianists spread throughout the world?
Ever heard of white mans burden?

 

[Juliuscaesar]

DerP


How do you think Christianists spread throughout the world?
Ever heard of white mans burden?

Ever heard of plague?If the Christians had not reached the Americas, and let's the Muslims had, things really wouldn't have changed as much in terms of the decimation of the Indian population.Disease is what triggered a massive die off of nearly 90% of the indigenous population in Mexico within 50 years of Cortez's landed.When faced with plagues which took only Pagan Indians and left Christian Spaniards unharmed, you might think, if you were an Indian, that the Christian God was stronger than the old Indian gods.

 

[girk1]

Ever heard of plague?If the Christians had not reached the Americas, and let's the Muslims had, things really wouldn't have changed as much in terms of the decimation of the Indian population.Disease is what triggered a massive die off of nearly 90% of the indigenous population in Mexico within 50 years of Cortez's landed.When faced with plagues which took only Pagan Indians and left Christian Spaniards unharmed, you might think, if you were an Indian, that the Christian God was stronger than the old Indian gods.

IF Christians had not reached America Indians would not have been so decimated by the new diseases Europeans brought along with warfare and enslavemment.:dunno:

Not just a coincindence that Indians began dying shortly after European interference and diseases Indians had less or no immunity to.

 

[emceeemcee]

The rise of the right wing parties in West Europe is a reaction to the failures of the Left wing gov'ts.

Yeah, it's somebody else's fault when people decide to become right wing racist reactionary mental defective white power types.



Gotta love that conservative 'personal responsibility'!

Fascinating that the Left and Neo-Nazis share the same hatreds of Jews. Drop the whole "Zionist" word because that's just a convenient PC cover word for "Anti-Jew".

Ahh the sound of zionism in it's death throes. About time too.


While we're on the subject, the tragedy in Norway has given us another valuable insight into contemporary Israeli society. A response to an article in the J Post on the attack:

15. Almog, Beer Sheva: they have it coming, period. Your article is pointless. Anyone who acts without mercy towards us, there’s no reason I should pity them!!!! Let them continue to respect and honor Muslims.

16. Gidon: I never enjoyed any support from Norway all these years when there were terror attacks in Israel just the opposite you bent, corrupt person let them understand that terror is not a solution to anything you self-righteous Jew

54. Roi, Bet Shemesh: Ziv Lenchner you’re a leftist!! If you haven’t noticed you’re a leftist like the rest of the media!!! Enough with the leftist incitement!!! There’s no getting away from it Norway was always against the state of Israel it’s not new and never will be!! We’re not in favor of the attack but to say that maybe they’ll understand us better after what happened is entirely legitimate!!!

103. Yossi, the north: Oslo … Maybe they’ll learn in Oslo that they’re not immune they’ll feel what many Israelis have felt and some of them can no longer feel because of the activity of Israelis and Norwegians in Oslo.

104. Ilan, on the stoning of gays [sic]: Anti-Jewish? Have you ever heard of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth? Suddenly a few little Jew-boys have popped up and “invented” a new Torah! Before the Torah is moral it is first of all for survival and the destruction of all enemies! Sing to the Lord for He is highly exalted the horse and his rider hath He thrown into the sea [Exodus 17:21, after the drowning of Pharaoh’s army—JJG]

303. Effie: I feel no sorrow about it!!!! Anyone who doesn’t feel the no pain of my people shouldn’t ask sympathy for his own pain.

392. We’re more unfortunate: Enough demagoguery! The Norwegians and Europe generally are super-anti-Semitic. So 100 people were killed there are 7 billion more people in the world. I don’t pity them they’re my enemies they hate Israel so they have it coming!!!

393. The whole world dances on Jewish blood. Europe is the same Europe and even more anti-Semitic. The killer is right!!! Europe is defeated, Norwegians are becoming a minority.

458. Very sorry: With all due sorrow they were waving a sign on the island the day before calling to boycott us. So I really don’t feeling like showing empathy. Very sorry. If you don’t believe me here the link to the lovely picture:

181. Noam: Ha Ha Ha! Europeans, this is your “liberalism”

240. D.A.: Bring the Oslo criminals to justice?

242. Radical Dreamer: Let them eat what they cooked.

243. Just a Person: Speedy recovery to the wounded and condolences to the families.

260. Shai, Tel Aviv: Give Norway back to the Arabs! End the occupation of Norway!

268. Shimon: Good news for Shabbat. So may they increase and learn the hard way.

285. Nir, Hasela Ha’adom: Allow me a few moments of pleasure.

315. Moshe, Haifa: I’m sorry, it doesn’t move me. From my point of view, let them drown in blood.

http://m.forward.com/blogs/forward-thinking/140297