No ceasefire until Sickos are terminated.

[cabey]

I'm all for going into countries all guns ablaze but only with the backing of the international community,only taking that action when all diplomacy has failed to rescue the needy and the downtrodden like in Afghanistan. and further more woe betide anyone who gets in the way of lawful and natural justice taking place.
The Israelis have committed war crimes, Hezbollah are truly evil cowardly murdering scum like all terrorists, its these who are responsible that shall get no mercy.
Firing rockets from a safe distance with no idea of the target they shall explode on and vice verses flying a plane with 1000 lbs bombs and smart weapons dropping on to civilian hospitals /schools, or strapping TNT to your body and going to a bus stop to blow men women and children up, Cowards they are all of them and don't ever tell me different and expose yourself as an idiot.

 

[glk35]

People on this thread keep saying, "Find another way!" What other way? Tell us. Tell us what needs to be done to stop Hezbollah from committing terrorist acts. Tell us your plan to stop extremists from lighting off missiles, shooting mortars, committing suicide bombers, etc. Don't keep saying, "Someone else needs to figure out a plan." Tell us your plan. If you can't think of one, maybe you should allow for the fact that there isn't a plan.

Hezbollah needs to be wiped from the face of the earth. All other terrorist groups need to have the same fate. There can be no peace until that happens. Not because we don't want peace. Because they don't want peace.

LMFAO!!! thats like john kerry "I have a Plan" --------- well what the fuck is it.

 

[calpoon]

so basically it's never ok to critisize the US. if you are a citizen and you don't love it, then leave it... but once you left, you don't know what it's like so you have to right to talk shit? come on. that's ridiculous. but I'll tell you what, in the intrest of fairness, i'll leave the country and i'll never bash on america again, as long as it never has anything to do with any other country in the world, and thus giving someone other than a US citizen legitimate cause to critisize america because it DOES have to do with them. Deal?

 

[georges]

so basically it's never ok to critisize the US. if you are a citizen and you don't love it, then leave it... but once you left, you don't know what it's like so you have to right to talk shit? come on. that's ridiculous. but I'll tell you what, in the intrest of fairness, i'll leave the country and i'll never bash on america again, as long as it never has anything to do with any other country in the world, and thus giving someone other than a US citizen legitimate cause to critisize america because it DOES have to do with them. Deal?

for some people what you ask here is too much

 

[Sanduleak]

It´s nice how people talk in terms of "reasonable loses", "democracy cost lifes and sacrifices"... the nice part id that people that talk in that terms allways talk about some other people loses... never about their own loses.

For what I know about humanity there are not "palestinians", "americans", "germans" "israelí" or anything... in the end there are only people who are worried about the same, their sons, bills, their family and the future...

In fact we are all the same, except for politicians, who are usually the kind of people that can say things like "acceptable loses"... it may seem acceptable for you, but not for the people that have to assume that lose.

 

[HeartBroker]

Sorry, on this one I have to agree w/ georges.
People you can't reason with know nothing but win or die.
Death should be all that awaits anyone unwilling or unable to negotiate a reasonable peace at the price of deliberitly targeted innocents.
Fanaticism knows no religion or affiliation, only ultimate victory over those who disagree with their beliefs is acceptable.

:2 cents:

 

[Mr. Daystar]

You have the wrong impression of "world organizations". The only thing America hates about them is that they're not looking out for America, but for everyone.

Anyway, as for my personal details, I've posted them here many many times, but if you're so sure you know, then why don't you tell me what you "suspect" about me, my education, religious, family, etc background? You're not allowed to look back over my ancient posts and if anyone pms you with the info you have to be honest and not pretend you guessed it. But if you think you know, by my politics, then tell me. I'm curious

No, I'm not going to guess...and no one has pm'd me...I think the search button is a wonderful thing...to find hot chicks! Heres my deal...the UN wants a global gun ban...that tells me they want a one world government...they may not say it...but I don't belive it for one second...I don't care if they support whats fair...and this country has it's head up it's ass..."We are a friend to Isreal...you Arabs better respect that...oh, were a friend to the Arabs...Isreal, you need to understand that....they always have tried to play both ends of the game...but I have no desire to have someone from another country tell me I can't do this or that...because the UN says so. You and I will never see eye to eye...I was just curious about you, it's not important...I will venture this guess though...you have way more education then you need...and I think that could be bad in some cases. Either that or your parents were hippies and or flower children!!

 

[pussy+dickdenice]

Breaking News

Quotes:
UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan had said the prime ministers of Israel and Lebanon agreed the fighting would end Monday at 8am (1500 AEST).

The month-old war began when Hizbollah guerrillas captured two Israeli soldiers and killed eight in a cross-border raid on July 12, then unleashed rocket fire at northern Israel after Israel launched an aerial offensive in Lebanon.

Despite the resolution, Israel has expanded its offensive in south Lebanon, tripling its forces there in a bid to wipe out Hizbollah rocket launch sites before the ceasefire takes effect.

Nearly 30,000 troops were operating against Hizbollah targets in southern Lebanon.

The media!!!!!
dd

 

[washingtonyrk]

Re:

No ceasefire until Sickos are terminated

While I agree that the israeli government are sickos for bombing civilians, I don't think temrinatin gthem is the answer.

Oh, you're talking about Hezbollah - sorry, I naturally assumed you were taling about the people who hold many Lebanese hostage yet massacre women and children if anyone else does likewise and who illegally hold the Shebaaa Farms.

Please do some research (and I don't mean watch FOX news) and understand what's going on before commenting further.

 

[Calm]

Re:

While I agree that the israeli government are sickos for bombing civilians, I don't think temrinatin gthem is the answer.

Oh, you're talking about Hezbollah - sorry, I naturally assumed you were taling about the people who hold many Lebanese hostage yet massacre women and children if anyone else does likewise and who illegally hold the Shebaaa Farms.

Please do some research (and I don't mean watch FOX news) and understand what's going on before commenting further.

How about you do some research before throwing alligations. Israel is not in war with Lebanon and they don't have Lebanese hostages. Israel is in war with hezbollah who is bombing major Israeli cities from inside Lebanon.
Israel is killing women and children? fair enough, so are Hezbollah.

90% of Israel's forces dont take part in this war so think twice before you accuse them of using too much force; if the world didnt stand in their way Israel would eliminate the terrorist thread long ago using massive force, but they cant since US is against it.

 

[pussy+dickdenice]

Breaking News

Quotes:
UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan had said the prime ministers of Israel and Lebanon agreed the fighting would end Monday at 8am (1500 AEST).

The month-old war began when Hizbollah guerrillas captured two Israeli soldiers and killed eight in a cross-border raid on July 12, then unleashed rocket fire at northern Israel after Israel launched an aerial offensive in Lebanon.

Despite the resolution, Israel has expanded its offensive in south Lebanon, tripling its forces there in a bid to wipe out Hizbollah rocket launch sites before the ceasefire takes effect.

Nearly 30,000 troops were operating against Hizbollah targets in southern Lebanon.

The media!!!!!
dd

Idiot that I'm. I forgot to provide the link.
dd

Ah! Is that some thing new? :dunno:
pd

 

[georges]

I always hated Amazedineeijhad as much as I hated and hate Hafez El Assad and his Bachar El Hassad and Check Nasrallah. The problem is that Iran and Syria want to erase Israel of the map. Don't tell me that you pretend not to know it Fox, when you know it more than clearly.
The majority of Iranian people back up Amazedineeijhad and believe in his shit, so can I consider them as people who are friendly and tolerant? I consider them as back ups of a radical islamist fanatic and an anti semitic piece of trash as well as supporters of Al Quaeda and other terrorist groups. I have no trust in such people. The same comment goes for people cheering Hezbollah and Hamas. And for me any back up of radical islamism, fanatism and terrorism is a terrorist ally that need to be arrested or eventually killed if he is too dangerous.
A lot of socialists and people from the left wing have this approach of defeatism or surrender to the ennemy, just look at what Zapatero did, he removed the troops from Irak because he feared the Ben Ladenists would blow trains in Spain. I can't say that I like Romano Prodi as well.
With terrorists, there is no in between, there is the spare none and kill them all option, if you surrender with terrorists, they kill you and if you made compromises they kill your friends or kill innocents.
If Iran, Liban and Palestine weren't leaded and governed by crazy fanatics, then the negotiations of peace talks would have been possible and there would be an embetterment in the Middle East. But while it is not possible, fight fire with fire.
I have a principle in life which is never to surrender when I or one of my friends is agressed but to hit my agressor hard enough so he won't be able to start his shit again. With normal people you can speak, but with wild and ruthless fanatic savages you can't.

respectfully

georges

 

[washingtonyrk]

Re:

How about you do some research before throwing alligations. Israel is not in war with Lebanon and they don't have Lebanese hostages. Israel is in war with hezbollah who is bombing major Israeli cities from inside Lebanon.
Israel is killing women and children? fair enough, so are Hezbollah.

90% of Israel's forces dont take part in this war so think twice before you accuse them of using too much force; if the world didnt stand in their way Israel would eliminate the terrorist thread long ago using massive force, but they cant since US is against it.

Calm,

I'm afraid that is an illinformed, hence ignorant, posting from you.

There are hundreds of Lebansese hostages in Israeli jails - that is a fact whether you like it or not.

They have killed almost a thousand civilians, most of them women and children.

I sometimes think that the USA media deliberately shields Americans citizens from the truth - which is that Israel is no better than a terrorist state itself, but this terrorist state isn't supplied weapons by Iran or Syia, it's supplied by the USA.

Hezbollah didn't ''start'' this conflict - it's been going on for years.

 

[georges]

Re:

Calm,

I'm afraid that is an illinformed, hence ignorant, posting from you.

There are hundreds of Lebansese hostages in Israeli jails - that is a fact whether you like it or not.

They have killed almost a thousand civilians, most of them women and children.

I sometimes think that the USA media deliberately shields Americans citizens from the truth - which is that Israel is no better than a terrorist state itself, but this terrorist state isn't supplied weapons by Iran or Syia, it's supplied by the USA.

Hezbollah didn't ''start'' this conflict - it's been going on for years.

The one who is uniformed is you here, did you look at who the Hezbollah was:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

It is considered as a terrorist by 6 countries: America, Canada, Australia, UK, Netherlands and Israel.

The rest of the EU and Russia don't consider Hezbollah as a terrorist organization. The Russian sold and sell weapons to many Arab countries and its clearly known that they always had a foreign pro arab ass kissing policy wether it was with Irak, Egypt, Libya, Syria and Yemen during the 60's to the 80's. Now they are seducting Iran and selling them weapons.
The other countries of the EU are too afraid of reprisals from the Hezbollah that is why they don't consider it as a terrorist organization.
What about the dozen if not hundreds of katouchas and missiles that fall and fell on Israeli cities?
Who abducted the two Israeli soldiers? The fuckers from the Hezbollah. And who was involved in terrorist attacks against Israel in the Beqaa valley? Hezbollah again.
The only democracy in the Middle East is Israel so saying than Israel is no better than a terrorist state is senseless, false and insulting.
Considering the Hezbollah as a charitable organization like some people do is showing that they are completely out of their minds, irresponsible and have no sense of realism and duty when it comes to fight terrorism.

 

[washingtonyrk]

georges,

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

What is terrorism, anyway?

Trying to bend people to your will by the means of terrifying violence, perhaps?

Bit like ''Shock And Awe'' in Iraq in 2003, perhaps?

Did you know that the UN have tried to come up with a definition of a terrorist state but couldn't find a definition which wouldn't include the USA, Israel and, more recently, Britain?

In what sense is the massacring of women and mentally handicapped children in Qana (that's in Lebanon, btw) any less ''terrorist'' than what Hezbollah, Hamas and Al Qaeda do?

Don't get me wrong - terrorism is vile and the people who kill civilians in these terrorist organisations are murderers.

But are the USA, Britain and Israel, all of who have pursued policies in full and certain knowledge that civilians will die as a result, any better?

Terrorism will never be defeated by violence - the world just isn't that simple.

 

[dangerousD]

I know let's send in Jack Bauer, he'll clean this mess up in 24hrs.

THAT RIGHT THERE is the best post on this topic...no doubt he has been too busy stopping the terrorists in England and breaking up thier cell before they got on those planes..

jeez, no wonder there is a war...just look at all the different views in these posts...

 

[D-rock]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

What is terrorism, anyway?

Trying to bend people to your will by the means of terrifying violence, perhaps?

My definition is somebody that goes out of their way to kill innocent civilians on purpose (essentially cold blooded murder) to try to inflict terror and get their way. Or people that make the most illogical indirect excuses to kill innocent people, "like citizens pay taxes so they are as legitimate a target as anything else” when what they really want to do it kill innocent people to cause terror. This is a lot different than unfortunate casualties of war that non-terrorist try to limit. I think that defintion works out pretty well for 99% of the rational thinking world.

Bit like ''Shock And Awe'' in Iraq in 2003, perhaps?

Did you know that the UN have tried to come up with a definition of a terrorist state but couldn't find a definition which wouldn't include the USA, Israel and, more recently, Britain?

Big surprise there, the UN is so useless, ineffective, and all the countries try to enforce there own agenda that is wouldn't be surprising that they couldn't come up with anything. I wouldn't be surprised it that happen because some actual terrorist state didn't like being labeled as one so through red tape and political maneuvering they tried to change what the definition was. Poeple care more about what they can get or prevent for themselves in the UN than about doing what's right. That is why the UN or some other global government will never work short of God directly controlling it.

In what sense is the massacring of women and mentally handicapped children in Qana (that's in Lebanon, btw) any less ''terrorist'' than what Hezbollah, Hamas and Al Qaeda do?

Don't get me wrong - terrorism is vile and the people who kill civilians in these terrorist organisations are murderers.

But are the USA, Britain and Israel, all of who have pursued policies in full and certain knowledge that civilians will die as a result, any better?

Oh please, your not actually comparing people that will go out of there way to kill innocent civilians with countries that are forced to take actions that unfortunately they know innocent people will die as a result of. The truth is we are nowhere even remotely close to being as bad as they are. It's not even close. If we were as bad as they are, as people claim, there would be genocide on an unprecedented scale. Almost all Muslim nations would be bombed off the face of the earth already and every practitioner of Islam would have been exterminated from this planet a long time ago. Yet I see that hasn't happened. That is what the terrorist would do to us if they had our recourses at their disposal. I don't think anybody can make a reasonable claim that they would truly believe otherwise. Yet all you people that actually believe that go on believing we are as bad as the terrorist. To answer your question yes we are better.

 

[D-rock]

Exactly. Very well said. We are all the same. No-one seems to understand or realize that. The people we are hating and bombing are exactly the same as us, or thereabouts. That's why I say their "terrorists" and our "soldiers" are not nearly as far apart as we, the "good guys" like to pretend.

I don't hold my highest allegiance to my race. I don't hold my highest allegiance to my country. I don't hold my highest allegiance to my ethnic background. I don't hold my highest allegiance to my supposed religion. I don't even hold my highest allegiance to my family. I give it to the people that are right plain and simple. In that respect those people are not the same as me. They ceased being the same as me when they went down the path of hatred. I don't care if they bleed and walk upright. Unless right and wrong and good and evil mean absolutely nothing to you they are nothing like I am and until they choose to conduct themselves in a non-evil matter they will never be anything like me.

I'm not a mediator or a diplomat, so I can't tell you the answer. But I can tell you the direction things should be going in:

(1) Hezbollah is recognized as a political party and told that if they come to the negotiating table, and accept a ceasefire, they are guaranteed to be listened to as an EQUAL PARTY with Israel.

You do realize the problem with this. As soon as you negotiate with terrorist you give them even more incentive to do what they do. Why would anybody ever think about doing something different when they can just cause terrorist acts and get a position of power out of it.

(2) Israel are told the same thing: they must stop all military activity to come to the table, otherwise the U.N. will take measures against them for illegal military actions (sanctions, withdrawal of aid, etc).

(3) Palestine (Hamas) are told the same thing.

There is a problem with this also. You would end up hurting one side more than the other with the punishment. An industrialized nation could have its entire society crumble under economic sanctions whereas some country barely out of the Stone Age the normal everyday people would barely notice.

Then with these three parties and others at the table to negotiate, the U.N. nominates all of its best negotiators from aroudn the world, who come in and treat ALL THREE SIDES as EQUALS, REGARDLESS of their military history, regardless of their connections to "terrorism" and their religious persuasions.

All three state what they want in order to cease ALL violence, and then a compromise is made EXACTLY IN THE MIDDLE, where Israel does not build a wall, Palestine and Hezbollah guarantee not to breach the Israeli border ever again... Israel promises never to breach Palestinian or Lebanese borders... all three sides are given MASSIVE CASH OR TRADE INCENTIVES by the world powers, because we can afford it, and because peace is in the interests of all parties, but ONLY on the condition that ALL THREE accept the compromise, which must TRULY be unbiased and in the middle, and once that is done, any of the three parties which violates the conditions are first given a warning, then a final warning, and ultimately massive sanctions. Plus whichever sides of the war continue the ceasefire without breaking rules are continually given incentives for years to come and rewards, until peace has been maintained.

This is the most flawed part of your "plan". It doesn't take into account there are people that are right and people that are wrong, or don't those concepts exist with you. Why give the more wrong side an advantage by giving it something it doesn't deserve and would not of had anyhow. Plus isn't this tantamount to bribery. You have to pay for people to do the right thing now, and all of this is still ignoring the fact the punishment you would give out would be more detrimental to one side if they broke it then the other. Also just like you, you give no option of the threat of violence to solve the situation if the agreement is broken. You also don't put a provision for the right of the other side to protect itself from the other in case of attack. What are they suppose to do, sit there and take it while you waggle your finger in front of the other side and tell them to play nice when they really don't care. Also the meet in the middle approach doesn't work when one side is definitely more in the wrong than the other. This is different than this but an example is below.

For example lets say you are negotiating a truce of two sides. One side says it will stop hostilities but it wants to retain the right to maintain slavery. The other side says it wants to end violence but it doesn't want the other side to be able to keep slaves. Both of them say that no matter what they will not budge from that issue and you must come up with a compromise that is between the two. What are you going to do let the one side have slavery half the time because it is in the middle or are you going to admit sometimes one side is rite and the other is wrong and punish the side in the wrong? What I'm trying to say is people believe there are issues you just don't compromise on, and they shouldn't because they are right. What do you do then? Maybe we can have only half the elimination of the nation they don't like, that would meet in the middle.

Perhaps even, eventually, enforced mixing in Jewish schools and so on, and a "positive discrimination policy" until in Lebanon, Israel AND Palestine, good jobs and opportunities are shared PROPORTIONATELY between the various religions, factions and races... Jews work with Arabs... if a country is 70% Arab, 20% Christian, 10% Jewish, then the job market sort of reflects that, etc.

Isn't "positive discrimination policy" just another word for "discrimination against the majority"? What do you want to do breed even more hatred? What happens when somebody gets booted out of a job when they are more qualified because some other sect of people aren’t meeting the national quota, and the fact that they had a better life is zero percent there fault. I would be pissed off also. That doesn't seem like something that is going to foster nice thoughts about the others, and seems as bad as the discrimination before only you are calling it a more flowery name now.

It needs to be recognized that NEITHER SIDE ARE THE BAD GUYS at these meetings, and it needs to be the U.N. with representatives from all over the world who mediate and set these unbiased terms.

It's things like this that totally ignore reality. In real life there are bad guys. Not having them be recognized as such is just sticking one's head in the sand. They should be treated like the people they are. I don't negotiate with terrorist, and there is a damn good reason why countries around the world have that policy. They may be able to kill us, but they should also know that what they do will never make us give them anything and will never give them an advantage beyond who they kill. Do you ever take into account that the only way to solve something might actually be with (gasp) violence? To give terrorist what they want is just rewarding them, and encouraging other to be terrorist also. It’s not about hating more anymore. What are they going to do hate people infinity plus one instead of just hating them an infinite amount, but nothing will create more terrorist than the fact they might see that method working. That will do more to inspire it than even their hatred of the other side.


Sorry about double posting but my original went over the 10,000 character limit and I already cut it down.

 

[georges]

I can only agree with both of your posts D-Rock, they are depicting reality.
The UN is leaded by what I consider a moron and an anti american dolt, here is what I think of Annan http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/georges2/un-annan.jpg. UN Forces have suffered and proved their uncompetence wether it was in Liban in 1982, in Somalia in 1993 and in Bosnia in 1999.
I think a part of what happens in the Middle East today is the result of the stupid and despicable foreign policy Clinton had. I clearly knew in advance that peace couldn't be made with Arafat, Israel made too many concessions and in exchange didn't receive that much and no real warranties of peace with Palestinians.
The only peace talks that really worked were the ones done with Egypt and Jordan.
People believing in utopias and who aren't realist shouldn't be allowed to be politicians.

 

[Aegis]

I have absolutely no sympathy for Hezbollah. Nor am I inclined to think that they should ever be allowed to take part in any form of government or democracy, though it's unlikely that they can ever truly be stopped by the use of violence.

I can perfectly understand that Israel is attacking Hezbollah. I have no problem with them attacking and killing terrorists. What I do have a problem with though, are the consequences this has for the Lebanese people. War will unfortunately always mean a lot of dead civilians, but countries should try to minimize those casualties. I personally think that Israel are being too brutal in this matter. Way too many Lebanese people are suffering because of the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah.

The Lebanese people aren't Hezbollah, and even if this was a war between Israel and Lebanon, unarmed civilians aren't legitimate targets. No matter if they support a government that we do not approve of.

Just my thoughts on this matter