Middle East 2021
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gmase
On the dark side of the moon
It's complicated. Like many of the 20th century woes, the source can be traced back to Versailles 1919.
In 1917 the British expressed sympathy for establishing a Jewish state:
At Versailles, the British were given control over the region:
... and then came 1947.
Is peace possible?
In 1917 the British expressed sympathy for establishing a Jewish state:
At Versailles, the British were given control over the region:
... and then came 1947.
Is peace possible?
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
Because most people aren't willing to come right out and say, Israel is JUST AS GUILTY, as the Palestinians, for causing all of the problems over there....because they are. It doesn't really seem to go over well, when you point out all of the flaws, and stupidity that has resulted from Americas intervention, and divisions of land, but when you bring up Israel, the moment a criticism is brought up, it goes straight back to the holocaust, and a reminder of the atrocities suffered. From there it manifests it self in guilt, and a desire to avoid ANYTHING even slightly controversial in the region, that might not shed the best light on our allies....and friendly little puppet string pulling campaign donators.
No they're not. They're waaaaaaaaaay more guilty.
gmase
On the dark side of the moon
You bring up good points. Moving the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem was the ultimate sell out of the Palestinians. It essentially solidified the US support of Israel.
Agreed. They have the power and have abused it. You cannot understand power until you understand how it affects the powerless. The human cost is frequently ignored.
It seemed like for most of the pandemic, things were relatively quiet. And then BOOM! They start evicting Palestinians from Sheikh Jarrah, raid the Al-Aqsa Mosque during Ramadan, and it's just been a shit show from there. I know I'm vastly oversimplifying, but is that the gist of what's lead up to this recent escalation?
Also:
Bernie Sanders: The U.S. Must Stop Being an Apologist for the Netanyahu Government
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/14/opinion/bernie-sanders-israel-palestine-gaza.html
Also:
Bernie Sanders: The U.S. Must Stop Being an Apologist for the Netanyahu Government
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/14/opinion/bernie-sanders-israel-palestine-gaza.html
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Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
Okay. I'm not going to argue in favor of any of their silly shit. I have no problem with remaining allies with Israel, I never have, but they need to check themselves on occasion. They are however a valuable Intel resource, and they do torture, so we need to maintain some relationship, I just think they get treated a little better then they deserve, and the only reason we do it, is to kiss their ass and keep them from going blade runner on the whole region.
There's also another reason why Israel gets treated better than any other country in their region but I can't qwhite figure out what it is....
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
Because they don't pilot rafts full of explosives into our war ships, or fly planes into our buildings. They commit violence, but it's generally in the fashion of a planned military operation. When you put a vest full of explosives on, and blow up civilians on a bus, you tend to lose credibility.
It probably also has to do with shit tons of money, and family ties to the power structures in America. Or maybe there's a hint in your post.
America has murdered millions of civilians. Where's their loss of credibility?
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
But we're America, and God is on our side, so.........
I think we reached millions just by exterminating Native Americans, by now we're in the billions. A lot of countries have committed genocide, I just think because of the way we found out about all of that nazi bullshit, and our people saw it first hand, it took a deeper hold. No one walked in on Stalin's atrocities, but Germany was caught red headed, and I think that it enabled them to play the sympathy/guilt card for far longer then they should have.
But that's strictly MY OPINION.
I think I made a similar statement years ago on this board, but I think just blindly giving people of Jewish decent land in Israel after World War II is one of the dumbest decisions humanity has ever made in the modern era, as much as they deserved sympathy from the Holocaust, and to a much lesser extent as much as it must of sucked for their ancient ancestors to be conquered. Considering there has been other people living there for a very long time now there was no way it was going to end well.
For a group of people that takes pains to remember the Holocaust and other tragedies that have befell them it's more sad they are slowly starting to be corrupted into being more like very things that used to persecute them. I don't care if they are the only democracy in the Middle East and blah blah blah. It doesn't work like that. One is either wrong in their actions or they aren't, and people don't get a free pass on evil crap just because at some point they did something better than other people around them. One does not build up currency to do wrongdoing. It's just as bad pointing out tactical advantages being allied with them gives us when we have the reasonable ability to not do so.
South Africa got a lot of deserved shit for it's apartheid behavior in the past. Why the hell does Israel continually get free passes for the crap it does? You can't treat a section of your populace as second class human beings without being called out on it.
For a group of people that takes pains to remember the Holocaust and other tragedies that have befell them it's more sad they are slowly starting to be corrupted into being more like very things that used to persecute them. I don't care if they are the only democracy in the Middle East and blah blah blah. It doesn't work like that. One is either wrong in their actions or they aren't, and people don't get a free pass on evil crap just because at some point they did something better than other people around them. One does not build up currency to do wrongdoing. It's just as bad pointing out tactical advantages being allied with them gives us when we have the reasonable ability to not do so.
South Africa got a lot of deserved shit for it's apartheid behavior in the past. Why the hell does Israel continually get free passes for the crap it does? You can't treat a section of your populace as second class human beings without being called out on it.
Theopolis Q. Hossenffer
I am in America, not of it.
South Africa was not the seat of Christianity. Israel is. And remember many people still believe the Jews Killed Christ(spoiler, the Romans did) and that makes them hated unless they are in Israel because then they will eventually bring Christ Back. Simple huh?
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gmase
On the dark side of the moon
It's sitting on the side of a country road. No country engaged in modern warfare has any credibility in the matter.
Good question. The backing of the US government helps which does bring up an odd conundrum in the Republican party:
It's not even a fair fight.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/...-kill-26-topple-buildings-in-gaza-city-488588
"At least 188 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza, including 55 children and 33 women, with 1,230 people wounded. Eight people in Israel have been killed, including a 5-year-old boy and a soldier."
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
And as far as I'm concerned, what makes it twice as bad, is the Jews should know better then to run people out of there homes....kind of happened to them in WWII, maybe try and remember how you felt when it happened to you. Practice what you preach, and so forth.
Little Red Wagon Repairman
MFOMBSoPGA
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
Well, to them it is. The muslims hate the jews more then America, so for them, they are doing allahs work, by getting rid of the infidel. For the Israeli government, they are protecting the long traditions of Judaism, for the record....off the record, it's what your post says.
Which goes back to the whole milking out the sympathy. Our news outlets will constantly portray any and all Palestinian actions as terrorism, which it is. However, any and all action by Israel is referred to as military action, or a commando raid. It's always a retaliation of something that was done to them first.
Or, I could have cut to the chase, and just said Religion is just the excuse they use to keep fucking with each other.
I think the pro-Palestine protests around the world show that people have caught on to that. Heck, even Bernie is calling them out.
Except with this latest escalation, it was them who started the evictions which set off the shitstorm. And looking at that map, I don't see where they wanted them to go.
Little Red Wagon Repairman
MFOMBSoPGA
I don't know much about Israeli politics. Didn't they recently have another election? How did Netanyahu and his party fare? Is it possible Netanyahu is trying to increase and solidify his power by creating a shitstorm to get people to wring their hands? Or is Netanyahu just trying to thin the herd using an elephant gun on fish in a barrel?
