Mexico wants to sue American gun mfgrs

Mr. Daystar

In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the-arms-trade-is-big-business

I guess I meant to say,
we are the no. 1
exporter of weapons.

That looks an awful lot like exporting of military, to military. How is our country selling old F-15's, and used Hummers to another country, the same as illegal guns getting into the hands of criminals? If we sell the Mexican military a shit load of M16's, how does that become Americas fault, when corrupt soldiers on THEIR side, then steal, and sell them to gangs and drug cartels? While I don't particularly agree to America sharing it's technology with ANY country, allies or not, I don't see how the sale of arms to any country, becomes our responsibility. If they can't control their own, we should demand the return of anything they still have, and never do business with them again.
 
So, if Mexico can sue US gun manufacturers, can the US sue Mexico for helping cartels and their gov officials for flooding the us with drugs, illegals, crime, and corruption?:dunno:
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Food for thought...tapping the strategic reserves needn't have a direct effect on supply to have an affect on pricing. Remember 2 things; oil pricing now is disproportionately influenced by negative speculation generated by mideast turmoil AND oil producers influence the marketplace by controlling increases and decreases in production. Therefore, that should mean there is no supply problem....Hence, tapping the strategic reserve as a means of easing pricing wouldn't need to affect supply to influence pricing nor would/should it be intended to.:2 cents:

I think we're talking about slightly different things. And I don't disagree that the market is being affected by speculation - though domestic demand has been rising since last year. But I think you're speaking about the market supply from imported sources - and I agree that our SPR has no real connection to that (until we begin to replenish the reserves). I'm talking more about overall supply. It would be the introduction of more oil into the overall available supply that would bring down prices, right? From what I've read, the maximum that we can withdraw from the SPR is about 4.5 million barrels a day. Our usage is somewhere around 20 million barrels a day. So if we maxed out and put 25% of the demand into the market, yeah, I can see how that increase in overall supply would have an affect on the price (temporarily). I just don't think it would be a good long term fix, since the market would know that only so much can be withdrawn. Plus, if you force the price down, you might just increase demand.

This spike up in oil could derail the economic recovery. And I certainly don't want to see that - and (outside of Rush Limbaugh) I doubt anyone else does either. I'm just leery of using short term measures to artificially play with pricing. We know how the spike up in oil prices affected our economy in 2008. So I'd like to see BOTH parties take this seriously and start working on a longer term energy policy for this country. Maybe paying $5/gallon for gas is what Americans need in order to apply pressure to their political critters. Americans seem to do better once they're/we're motivated by pain. We could be doing more to deal with our demand for oil, whether it's alternative energy or more fuel efficiency with existing platforms. I just don't think we're moving very fast in that direction.

I found this online. It just shows the SPR as of Nov. 30, 2010.

And BTW, being that I just recently became aware of Vanilla Deville, and think that she's a complete hottie, you have no idea how hard it was to collect my thoughts with her cute, bare ass in my face. :drool1:
 

TheOrangeCat

AFK..being taken to the vet to get neutered.
I think we're talking about slightly different things. And I don't disagree that the market is being affected by speculation - though domestic demand has been rising since last year. But I think you're speaking about the market supply from imported sources - and I agree that our SPR has no real connection to that (until we begin to replenish the reserves). I'm talking more about overall supply. It would be the introduction of more oil into the overall available supply that would bring down prices, right? From what I've read, the maximum that we can withdraw from the SPR is about 4.5 million barrels a day. Our usage is somewhere around 20 million barrels a day. So if we maxed out and put 25% of the demand into the market, yeah, I can see how that increase in overall supply would have an affect on the price (temporarily). I just don't think it would be a good long term fix, since the market would know that only so much can be withdrawn. Plus, if you force the price down, you might just increase demand.

This spike up in oil could derail the economic recovery. And I certainly don't want to see that - and (outside of Rush Limbaugh) I doubt anyone else does either. I'm just leery of using short term measures to artificially play with pricing. We know how the spike up in oil prices affected our economy in 2008. So I'd like to see BOTH parties take this seriously and start working on a longer term energy policy for this country. Maybe paying $5/gallon for gas is what Americans need in order to apply pressure to their political critters. Americans seem to do better once they're/we're motivated by pain. We could be doing more to deal with our demand for oil, whether it's alternative energy or more fuel efficiency with existing platforms. I just don't think we're moving very fast in that direction.

I found this online. It just shows the SPR as of Nov. 30, 2010.

And BTW, being that I just recently became aware of Vanilla Deville, and think that she's a complete hottie, you have no idea how hard it was to collect my thoughts with her cute, bare ass in my face. :drool1:


Rey C. FO's own Warren Buffet ... :hatsoff:

I say put him in charge of the economy.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
So, if Mexico can sue US gun manufacturers, can the US sue Mexico for helping cartels and their gov officials for flooding the us with drugs, illegals, crime, and corruption?:dunno:

Sure, we can sue them. And I'm in favor of letting the 82nd Airborne deliver the "subpoena". ;)

This really needs to stop! Our passivity has just made the situation worse with these terrorists - and that's ALL they are!

Brutal Mexican Drug Gangs Here in U.S. Experts Say
According to various experts on border security and gang violence Mexico’s violent drug gangs have expanded their operations across the border and into states like New York and California.

Apparently drug profits have allowed drug cartels like the Zetas to afford top of the line terror tools like explosives and avoid detection through wiretapping, bribery and counterserveillance.

All this has emboldened the cartels to expand their reach into the U.S., not only as a source of consumption but as an operation base. The U.S. cocaine, heroin and marijuana market in the U.S. is valued at $25 billion with distribution handled at the local level but that may change.

The U.S. Homeland Security Department has said that Mexican drug cartels, including the Zetas, have infiltrated 276 U.S. cities and represent the nation’s most serious organized-crime threat.

There is now proposed legislation to have six Mexican cartels designated as Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTO) making their detection and detention easier.

And instead of John Boehner screwing around trying to turn IRS agents into anti-abortion crusaders, THIS is what that windbag should be working on!!!

Enough with this pointless bullshit in the Middle East - especially Iraq. Bush should have been looking at solving our problems with Mexico in 2001 and Obama needs to be doing it in 2011! The PRIMARY duty of the U.S. government is not to protect citizens of foreign countries from dictators and use American taxpayer dollars to rebuild their nations. The PRIMARY duty of the U.S. government is to protect American citizens from whomever! I'm not a bloodthirsty person, but I do have a question: who is a bigger badass? A Zeta or a member of U.S. Special Forces? I'm not sure. I bet Felipe Calderon doesn't know either. And I bet the Zetas aren't as sure of the answer as they might like to think. So let the Zetas keep fucking around on this side of the border and I say let's find out. Yeah? Yeah! :)

Am I right? Am I wrong? Or am I just crazy??? :dunno:
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Rey C. FO's own Warren Buffet ... :hatsoff:

I say put him in charge of the economy.

Thanks, but then I'd get caught in a cheap motel room on New York Ave., banging on Michele Bachmann's backdoor ("who's your daddy, Michele?!" :nannerf2:)... and they'd want to fire me. :(
 

TheOrangeCat

AFK..being taken to the vet to get neutered.
Thanks, but then I'd get caught in a cheap motel room on New York Ave., banging on Michele Bachmann's backdoor ("who's your daddy, Michele?!" :nannerf2:)... and they'd want to fire me. :(

But we'd make a fortune from the sex tape. So, factoring in the Domino Effect, the best way to save the economy IS for you to get caught backdoor banging Bachmann.
 

Facetious

Moderated
Both Bush and Greenspan were more than happy to talk about and take credit for the record home ownership rates a few years ago.
I have to believe that a democratic potus along with his treasury secretary appointment would have taken credit for the exact same thing had they been in office. The question is, did 'w' & greeny know that said record home ownership had been built like a house of cards(?) Furthermore, just because interest rates were artificially held in check and banks were recklessly approving morgage applications -of which the applicants had no business filling out in the first place- doesn't necessarily place all of the blame on bush, the banks and the credit apps themselves must also accept culpability in the housing market fallout.
And with real wages stagnant or falling, because the U.S. hasn't had a meaningful manufacturing strategy for decades, both Bush and Greenspan were happy to see the U.S. economy chugging along, fueled by people using their homes as ATM machines.
True, but again, I don't believe that a dem potus would have done anything differently under the same set of circumstances.
How many cases did the Bush administration file with the WTO against China's unfair trade practices and their theft of intellectual property?
Bush was all about going along to get along, particularly with the PRC. Excuse my ignorance on this, but what meaningful types of penalties might have the WTO extend to the PRC had a formal complaint been filed re lopsided trading practices and the disregard of our patent laws? Does, in fact, our potus have to be the one to blow the whistle on such aforementioned trade infractions? In other words, doesn't the WTO act as referee over these matters?

why are we even in Iraq?
Shhh! the wmd materials from Iraq are in Syria. . . shhh! Oh, and we went to war because mustard gas as well as a few first gen Foxbats were found buried in the sand. :D
And since we're talking about Mexico here,
How about that, we were, weren't we :D
what exactly did Bush/Cheney do to reform or fix the immigration situation in the U.S.? I personally saw one of the maps that had been passed out on the Mexican side of the border, directing people to the best routes for illegally entering the U.S. That was in 2004 - I remember because I was working away from home in a hell hole of a place. Bush was President. What did he do about that?
Abdsolutely nuthin, zilch . . . nada, I agree . . . but I'm not and have never been a supporter of 'w', he was merely my default preference ahead algore in . . 2000 was it? :dunno: :surprise: Damn, time flies as you get older, doesn't it? Has it been that long?!
Over the course of my life, I've voted for more Republicans than I have Democrats. But since about 1999, the GOP has pretty much been taken over by, controlled by, or just (IMO) overly influenced by people who basically make me sick to my stomach: nation building neocons, kooky conspiracy theorists and religious whack jobs.
Thrice times here, sorry, the democrats don't come off much differently in my estimation. What are we doing in Libya under Obama . . . were we supposed to have been in and out of there in a week, yet today we seem to be sinking into yet another quagmire.

On the religious whack job front, look no further that the potus' spiritual advisor for some twenty years . . . ''Americas's chickens have come to roost!'' ''Gawd Damn America!'' :cussing: :D

Finally, on the conspiracy theorist whackos, I have a difficult time blaming them, because, after all, how frequent is our government actually forthcoming when addressing We The People? seldom if ever. Of course there will be individuals out there who will attempt to piece the puzzle together. I have found that it's better to just reply ''I don't know!'' when asked about curious and suspicious govt ops. :D


Goldwater where are you?

More later. your post was . . . sizable, you know! :D
 

vodkazvictim

Why save the world, when you can rule it?
This reminds me of when the yanks wanted to sue Remington the English gun manufacturer. Something tells me that the yanks will approve of suing foreign manufacturers responsible for yanky deaths, but yanky manufacturers will assuredly be in the right in selling weapons abroad... That's what I'm guessing the attitude will be anyways.
 
Good, I do hope they do bring a lawsuit. I'm sure the American weapons manufacturers are going to have excellent lawyers who will finally, once and for all, clear up this whole "90% of guns in Mexico come from the U.S. myth".

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2011/03/sedena-weapons-imports-diverted-to.html

In addition to weapons smuggled from the U.S., drug traffickers and criminal gangs in Mexico are also making use of another arms source to supply their gunmen. They also using weapons imported legally through proper channels by Sedena, Mexico’s Ministry of Defence that at some point in their path to their final recipient are "diverted" and fall into the wrong hands.

This is the story of an R-15 rifle recovered by Michoacan state police after a confrontation between municipal police and gunmen in the town of Panindícuaro on November 18, 2009.

The weapon was imported in 2006 and delivered in 2007 to the Ministry of Public Security in the state of Michoacan. After reaching its destination the weapon was "lost." U.S. agents conducting the investigation concluded that Michoacan authorities "have no reliable mechanisms" for the safeguard of its arsenal.

This R-15 is just a drop in the so-called "iron river" (referring to the uncontrolled flow of arms) that enters the country legally or illegally and has given organized crime, today, more firepower than the State, according to the government itself.

According to information contained in a pair of cables released by WikiLeaks (09MEXICO3376 and 09STATES7530) the journey of this “lost” R-15 was reconstructed by Blue Lantern (an end-use monitoring program for arms exports managed by the U.S. State Department, Bureau of Political Military Affairs, DDTC office) and the ATF’s E-Trace program.

Blue Lantern keeps a strict registry of all documents concerning U.S. arms exports (which are massive and distributed worldwide) and aims to ensure that all routes from the manufacturer or vendor to its final destination are legally documented.

The R-15, serial number L428091, was part of a consignment of one thousand and thirty 5.56mm rifles bought from Bushmaster International, a manufacturer based in Maine, a leading global provider of this type of weapon, which has two variants: the "sport" and the military model.

Sedena made the purchase in 2006 under the license 050016624, to provide weapons to the state police agencies of Michoacán, Baja California and Chihuahua.

These contracts specifically prohibit any subsequent resale of the weapons. Sedena is the only entity allowed to import weapons into Mexico and their exportation is legally banned.

The first consignment of 507 weapons arrived in Laredo, Texas, on December 12, 2006. According to the documentation this first lot included the serial number L428091. On January 5, 2007, the remaining lot of 523 weapons arrived.

On January 10, 2007, Sedena personnel received the shipment in Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas. An armaments broker, and Bushmaster's legal representative in Mexico, Eduardo Jordán, acted as sales agent.

The Customs agency Central de Aduanas de Mexico, S.A. de C.V., with offices in Monterrey that specialize in imports and exports through Laredo-Nuevo Laredo port of entry, managed all the customs permits and moved the shipment through the port of entry to make the transfer. All parties were under the microscope of ATF and Blue Lantern.

Finally, the authorities demanded that Sedena demonstrate step by step the legality of the operation. "Sedena insists that it undertakes a very strict control over all the weapons that enter Mexico legally," says the cable.

On May 15, Sedena sent a batch of 121 R-15 rifles to the Public Security Secretariat of Michoacan. On behalf of the state government an official named Francisco Gabriel Huerta signed receipt. L428091 was included in that batch. And there the trail of L428091 goes cold.

The 81 rifles that were not sent to the destination states remained under guard at Military Camp Number One, in Lomas de Tecamachalco.

The investigation led to the authorities in Michoacan. According to the cables, "there is no evidence that state officials have strictly implemented the regulations and the chain of custody once they received the weapons from Sedena. Given the lack of reliability of the methods to safeguard custody once arms arrive at the state government level, our agents have good reasons to think that’s where many weapons simply disappear."

The cables failed to answer the ultimate question. Who was responsible for the R-15 falling into the hands of a gang of criminals in the Purépecha Plateau of Michoacan?
 

Ace Boobtoucher

Founder and Captain of the Douchepatrol
So by this rationale I should be able to sue Mexico every time I get the shits.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
I have to believe that a democratic potus along with his treasury secretary appointment would have taken credit for the exact same thing had they been in office.

So you agree with me and Tommy Jefferson that factional party politics hurt more than they help? Welcome to the club. Kick your shoes off. Grab a beer. Tommy's in_the_back (is anything here NOT related to a porn star?!), but he'll be out in a bit. If Americans weren't so in love with brands (and could find their way to the door without a seeing-eye dog), maybe they'd leave the two-party system for alternative parties. Not a cure-all, but both parties have too many lemmings they KNOW they can count on.



Goldwater where are you?

Sitting at a table in Heaven with Dwight Eisenhower and Jack Kemp... all with their heads in their hands. You know, they'd all be considered "RINO's" these days, right? :facepalm:


More later. your post was . . . sizable, you know! :D

It's been known to happen in real life too. My girl calls it my "SOC moments" (stream of consciousness). My picture hangs in the HQ of Twitter: "Never Let This Man Open a Twitter Account - He'll Crash The Servers!"
 

PirateKing

█▀█▀█ █ &#9608
What's wrong Mexican government? Is the drug cartel cutting back on the bribes?
 

Kingfisher

Here Zombie, Zombie, Zombie...
He should have checked the past verdicts. There has almost never been a judgement against gun manufactures. Not even sure how it can even be the manufactures fault. That's like saying, that toaster burnt the bread when the owner turned up the dial.

Maybe he should look at the problems in that shithole called Juarez instead of looking north of the border.
 
If they do, does this mean we get all of our stolen cars back? :D



We should sue Mexico for leaving the gate open!!
 
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