Meet the Leaders of the anti-(not-at-Ground Zero) Mosque Movement

I love the hypocritical left screaming about freedom of religion when it's not Judeo Christian.

I can't speak for anyone else but if Muslims wanted to insert their beliefs in public schools or any other publicly owned entity or place, I'd be as opposed to that as if it were any religion.

Freedom of religion means a much as you have the right to practice your religion peaceably others has as much right to be free from your convictions in places owned by the public.
 

StanScratch

My Penis Is Dancing!
We as a nation are treading into extremely dangerous territory here - extremely dangerous. We've a history of intolerance and have very recently acquired a reputation around the world for intolerance. I've a sinking feeling, once this all ends, our reputation will not be for the better.
I sincerely hope I am wrong, but I've seen these ugly, shouting faces before.
 
CunningStunts said:
it's about liberty and our rights to be treated as individuals against any enemy of that freedom, foreign or domestic, that propose ideals that are diametrically opposed. Any group that forces obedience blindly to a set of rules that we do not agree with is the enemy IMHO.

Just like you want to force your rules upon them wich makes you an enemy of the very freedom claim you are defending.

meesterperfect said:
he wasn't a "random black guy" , he was a guy wearing a muslim type hat.

The extreme stupidity in this sentence is just unbelievable. That's like saying every man with a bold head is a neo nazi.

Trident1 said:
As for all the mistrust in Islam, well the muslims have only themselves to blame for that.

And the media that's always focussing on the bad apples has nothing to do with it? People like you who just swallow whatever the media feeds you have nothing to do with it?
 
...Freedom of religion means a much as you have the right to practice your religion peaceably others has as much right to be free from your convictions in places owned by the public.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (of which the United States is a party to) seems to disagree with you on this one...

Article 18
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
 
I wish people would actually discuss the revelations about the people who are leading this anti-mosque thing.
 
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (of which the United States is a party to) seems to disagree with you on this one...

Well obviously the individual or group has the right to express THEIR religious beliefs generally in various places under various circumstances. But the individual also has the right to be free from publicly owned property or entities being used to espouse religious beliefs.

What you posted wasn't addressing the point I was making. I should have made it more clear.
 
The theory that a lot of you are trying to sell on us is that most muslims are peace loving, reasonable people. This is pretty difficult to swallow when you hear that the koran preaches the message to muslims that infidels should either be converted or beheaded.

Let's forget about that for the moment though, and give the lefties here the benefit of the doubt. Let's say that most muslims actually are peace loving, reasonable people.

If this IS indeed the case, wouldn't it make sense to expect this 90% of the muslim population to be sensitive to the feelings of real Americans who don't like the idea of a mosque so close to ground zero?

Since they are such peace lovers, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect this majority to step forward, sound off, and suggest that maybe, just maybe their religious leaders should build their mosque somewhere else - in the name of PEACE?

What it comes down to is that our left leaning thinkers can make excuses for the muslims all they want, but eventually the actions (or lack thereof) will speak out for the muslims themselves. Actions always speak louder than words.

As someone far more wiser than any of the muslim religious leaders once said, "You can judge a tree by the fruit it bears." Eventually, the muslim people who claim they are not part of the allegedly small group of "extremists" who advocate violence will have to stand up against the violence their own religion perpetrates in this world. Eventually they will not be able to just hide behind the good intentions of people who want to believe they are good people. Eventually they will have to produce their own fruit. Isn't that a novel concept? When is this going to happen?

In my opinion, standing up against the building of a mosque in a location where it would create tension and hate would be a very charitable and holy act. This would be a good start in creating a little fruit of their own to contribute to the world. Maybe the peace loving majority of muslims will have the gumption to stand up and do this.

I'm not going to hold my breath though.
 
And the media that's always focussing on the bad apples has nothing to do with it? People like you who just swallow whatever the media feeds you have nothing to do with it?




No they have nothing to do with it. Surprise surprise.:surprise:
 
The theory that a lot of you are trying to sell on us is that most muslims are peace loving, reasonable people. This is pretty difficult to swallow when you hear that the koran preaches the message to muslims that infidels should either be converted or beheaded.

Let's forget about that for the moment though, and give the lefties here the benefit of the doubt. Let's say that most muslims actually are peace loving, reasonable people.

If this IS indeed the case, wouldn't it make sense to expect this 90% of the muslim population to be sensitive to the feelings of real Americans who don't like the idea of a mosque so close to ground zero?

Since they are such peace lovers, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect this majority to step forward, sound off, and suggest that maybe, just maybe their religious leaders should build their mosque somewhere else - in the name of PEACE?

What it comes down to is that our left leaning thinkers can make excuses for the muslims all they want, but eventually the actions (or lack thereof) will speak out for the muslims themselves. Actions always speak louder than words.

As someone far more wiser than any of the muslim religious leaders once said, "You can judge a tree by the fruit it bears." Eventually, the muslim people who claim they are not part of the allegedly small group of "extremists" who advocate violence will have to stand up against the violence their own religion perpetrates in this world. Eventually they will not be able to just hide behind the good intentions of people who want to believe they are good people. Eventually they will have to produce their own fruit. Isn't that a novel concept? When is this going to happen?

In my opinion, standing up against the building of a mosque in a location where it would create tension and hate would be a very charitable and holy act. This would be a good start in creating a little fruit of their own to contribute to the world. Maybe the peace loving majority of muslims will have the gumption to stand up and do this.

I'm not going to hold my breath though.

Irrelevant. We give groups totally devoted to hate the opportunity to gather as they see fit as long as they violate no laws.
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
Irrelevant. We give groups totally devoted to hate the opportunity to gather as they see fit as long as they violate no laws.

... and maybe it is a stupid concept to allow groups that openly state they want to destroy your nation, may that be Nazis who want to throw over your democratic system and gas complete groups of 'other breeds', or aggressive muslim groups who clearly say that you either join the muslim religion or it's okay to kill you, to rally in the public?

It is really important to have freedom of speech, but freedom of destruction?

Maybe you should reconsider.

In Germany, we draw a line between distributing nationalist politics, which are okay, and open nazi propaganda, including holocaust denial etc., which is not.
 
... and maybe it is a stupid concept to allow groups that openly state they want to destroy your nation, may that be Nazis who want to throw over your democratic system and gas complete groups of 'other breeds', or aggressive muslim groups who clearly say that you either join the muslim religion or it's okay to kill you, to rally in the public?

It is really important to have freedom of speech, but freedom of destruction?

Maybe you should reconsider.

In Germany, we draw a line between distributing nationalist politics, which are okay, and open nazi propaganda, including holocaust denial etc., which is not.

I know Germany has more restrictive laws as it relates to thought because of the Nazi history there. I stated as much in another post.

Two different countries with different ways of handling the same issues. The world is big enough for that.:dunno:
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
We can agree on that!

Still it gives me the creeps when I see Nazis marching US streets and chanting their hate.
 

Facetious

Moderated
Faking, are you making assumptions of guilt via association again?
Every crowd has their share of radical extremists, right or left, well, stop using those extremists to create a false consensus!
'Nuff w/ the broad brushin! :nono:
 
Irrelevant. We give groups totally devoted to hate the opportunity to gather as they see fit as long as they violate no laws.

How is this irrelevant??? As I stated at the beginning of my post, I understand what their "rights" are, and I am not a proponent of anyone being denied their rights. I brought up a different issue. What about the issue I brought up?

It's VERY relevant because if they would be willing to walk the walk, maybe people would hold them a little higher esteem. Heck, these muslims aren't even willing to "talk the talk" most of the time.

From what I've seen, the practitioners of this religion contribute either violence to the world, or silence and inactivity. That's either something negative, or nothing at all. How about a little positive for a change before everyone bends over backwards to say how wonderful these people are?

When you come to America, you get to enjoy it's freedoms, and you have every right to do that. At the same time, wouldn't it be nice if people are also willing to give something back at the same time? It's easy to be a taker. It requires more to be a giver and actually add something to the world. To me, that's not irrelevant at all. It's what made America the greatest country in the world.
 
the problem with the world is the hypocrisy involved. people scream about tolerance while being intolerant themselves. you tolerate a seemingly non-violent organization and the next day they're blowing stuff up because they can. who's to blame then? it's the old story of the ants. in case some of you don't remember it, it was something like this: a guy stands in a forest. suddenly he gets bitten by an ant. he looks down and sees plenty of them so he stomps the chitin out of them. he won't care which one bit him. he's just making sure it doesn't happen again.

this is, however, a double-edged sword. it's very difficult to constantly investigate every group or faction. generalizing is not an option but neither is ignoring the lot. as for a mosque at or near ground zero, why should it remind the people of al qaeda? were all the churches in oklahoma torn down after the bombing in 93(or was it 94? forgot)? were all the churches in russia torn down after the germans attacked? was a bill passed to stop them from being built? no! what you haters have to understand is that the world is not being attacked by muslims or christians or jews. it's being attacked by evil as a whole. sure, muslims are causing most of the damage worldwide, but you have to consider the state in which they live in. not too many christians in third-world countries as far as I know. not too many of them being oppressed for their beliefs or their agendas. they will never understand the frustration of the muslims, which is being misguided by a few terrorists in powerful positions who need to be deposed as soon as possible.

I know a lot of christians have it tough in many parts of the world, but you really have to come and see what it's like in a third-world country before you judge us. you really, really do. I myself am from Bangladesh and know very well how difficult life can be.

Islam might be a violent religion, but christians haven't been the most wonderful people either(check the 30 years war, the dark ages, interdicts etc) and the Torah states that the jews are supreme and people of all other religions should be their slaves.
 
How is this irrelevant??? As I stated at the beginning of my post, I understand what their "rights" are, and I am not a proponent of anyone being denied their rights. I brought up a different issue. What about the issue I brought up?

It's VERY relevant because if they would be willing to walk the walk, maybe people would hold them a little higher esteem. Heck, these muslims aren't even willing to "talk the talk" most of the time.

From what I've seen, the practitioners of this religion contribute either violence to the world, or silence and inactivity. That's either something negative, or nothing at all. How about a little positive for a change before everyone bends over backwards to say how wonderful these people are?

When you come to America, you get to enjoy it's freedoms, and you have every right to do that. At the same time, wouldn't it be nice if people are also willing to give something back at the same time? It's easy to be a taker. It requires more to be a giver and actually add something to the world. To me, that's not irrelevant at all. It's what made America the greatest country in the world.

I don't know how wonderful these people are and I never professed any such nonsense because again, it's irrelevant.

We live in a country where people have the right to peaceably practice their religious beliefs unmolested. NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION IT IS.

I don't know what the majority of Muslims believe. The evidence suggests the majority of them are not extremists...But I do know even in extreme cases of some groups who stand for nothing but hate, violence and intolerance we accept their freedom of thought to congregate as they see fit as long as they violate no laws. I would defend their right just as much as I would defend the right of any other group to do so peaceably as our country protects that right.

But practically if you wanted evidence these people aren't all bad, look no further than the fact that they are helping us fight other Muslims in Arab land.

If they were in lock step hatred for the US and non Muslims..there is NO WAY this could be a reality.
 
the problem with the world is the hypocrisy involved. people scream about tolerance while being intolerant themselves. you tolerate a seemingly non-violent organization and the next day they're blowing stuff up because they can. who's to blame then? it's the old story of the ants. in case some of you don't remember it, it was something like this: a guy stands in a forest. suddenly he gets bitten by an ant. he looks down and sees plenty of them so he stomps the chitin out of them. he won't care which one bit him. he's just making sure it doesn't happen again.

this is, however, a double-edged sword. it's very difficult to constantly investigate every group or faction. generalizing is not an option but neither is ignoring the lot. as for a mosque at or near ground zero, why should it remind the people of al qaeda? were all the churches in oklahoma torn down after the bombing in 93(or was it 94? forgot)? were all the churches in russia torn down after the germans attacked? was a bill passed to stop them from being built? no! what you haters have to understand is that the world is not being attacked by muslims or christians or jews. it's being attacked by evil as a whole. sure, muslims are causing most of the damage worldwide, but you have to consider the state in which they live in. not too many christians in third-world countries as far as I know. not too many of them being oppressed for their beliefs or their agendas. they will never understand the frustration of the muslims, which is being misguided by a few terrorists in powerful positions who need to be deposed as soon as possible.

I know a lot of christians have it tough in many parts of the world, but you really have to come and see what it's like in a third-world country before you judge us. you really, really do. I myself am from Bangladesh and know very well how difficult life can be.

Islam might be a violent religion, but christians haven't been the most wonderful people either(check the 30 years war, the dark ages, interdicts etc) and the Torah states that the jews are supreme and people of all other religions should be their slaves.

I'm not judging muslims in third world countries. The ones I AM judging are those who come to America and either cause trouble, or do nothing. Here they enjoy freedom and rights that are almost inconceiveable in their homeland. More often than not, when they get here they also have the benefit of food, housing, and medical care - all paid for by the government.

In my opinion, life isn't near as difficult or frustrating when they get to this country as it most likely was in the third world. For this reason, doesn't it make sense that the rest of us Americans have at least a few small expectations from them?

This is why it becomes even more annoying when these people do as I said: either they contribute violence, or they remain silent and contribute nothing.

As far as the Christians having not been "the most wonderful people either", when was the last time you heard of a Christian flying an airplane into a building full of innocent people? When was the last time you heard about a Jew who bought and sold slaves? I love it when a non-Christian brings up the dark ages. That was centuries ago! The point is, Christianity and Judiasm have evolved and become more civilized since those days. Islam on the other hand, is full of people who want to see the world revert back to the way things were in the 15th century. There is a HUGE difference.

You were correct when you said that islam is a violent religion, and that they are the ones causing most of the damage in the world in terms of terrorism. If the terrorism were limited to just a small group of crazy despots, AND if the rest of the muslims were decrying the violence as an abomination of their religion, I would have no problem supporting the "good" muslims.

Unfortunately that is not the case. The problem is that the "good" muslims never seem to take a stand against the violence. They never seem to be doing anything in the world to "increase the peace". Why is that?
 
The problem is that the "good" muslims never seem to take a stand against the violence. They never seem to be doing anything in the world to "increase the peace". Why is that?

:facepalm:

I can't believe I have to post this a THIRD time.

"Good" Muslims, EN MASSE, condemn violence and terrorism:

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
http://www.ciogc.org/Go.aspx?link=7655053
http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter16.htm
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&&sa=X&...+against+violence&spell=1&fp=7db4f7af4a13aa89
http://www.alislam.org/response.html

muslims and muslim groups condemn Fort Hood violence:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=musli...25b226ce9fcffe

If this IS indeed the case, wouldn't it make sense to expect this 90% of the muslim population to be sensitive to the feelings of real Americans who don't like the idea of a mosque so close to ground zero?

So muslim citizens aren't "real americans"?
You've got to be kidding with this shit, right? :dunno:
 
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