Malaysian 777 Shot Down by Missile over Ukraine; 295 Dead

[Jagger69]

:eek: :eek:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ysian-airlines-crash-ukraine-russia/12779763/

A Malaysia Airlines flight was shot down by a surface-to-air missile Thursday, killing all 295 aboard after crashing near Ukraine's border with Russia.

Malaysia Airlines confirmed that Ukrainian air traffic control lost contact with Flight MH17 about 30 miles from Russia. The plane was carrying 280 passengers and 15 crew. There were no distress calls from the aircraft as it began breaking up as it fell from the sky.

Crash victims and body parts were strewn among burning debris up to 10 miles away. News agencies reported 154 Dutch nationals, 27 Australians, 11 Indonesians, six Brits, four Germans, four Belgians, four French, three Filipinos and a Canadian were among the dead.

The crash site is in a region where tensions and fighting between Ukraine and pro-Russian militants has festered for months. After the downing of several Ukraine aircraft in recent days, accusations, blame and finger-pointing over Thursday's crash was fevered.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko called the incident a terrorist act. Russian and pro-Russian separatists denied responsibility. But Ukrainian officials said they had intercepted telephone calls in which a separatist leader talked about crash with Russian military intelligence officers. Separatists initially believed they had downed a military cargo plane, according to the SBU, Ukraine's main security agency.

U.S. intelligence officials confirmed that the airliner, flying at about 30,000 feet, had been downed by a radar-guided missile, although they were not in agreement where it originated.

It was "not an accident, it was blown out of the sky,'' said Vice President Joe Biden

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

The lesson I'm learning from this and their other, earlier incident, DON'T FLY MALAYSIAN AIR.

 

[feller469]

After reading Ace's post and doing extensive research, I have concluded that you can fly Malaysian Air, but DO NOT get on a flight that has a "7" in it.

 

[Jagger69]

Early indications seem to point at Ukrainian separatists who acquired the weaponry to shoot down the plane from Russia....a bad-ass BUK SAM that covers a mile/second and has a range of 25 miles and an altitude capability of 45,000 feet.

If so, Russia is culpable since the weapon could only have come from there. By the same token, a radio transmission that was intercepted between a Ukrainian separatist and a Russian military officer would seem to indicate that the shooting was a mistake....some fucking mistake, huh? (although the USA committed a similar mistake when they shot down an Iranian A300 back in 1988 with the loss of 290 people).

I hope cooler heads prevail here despite the tremendous and tragic loss of innocent life. I heard on NBC tonight that as many as 80 of the passengers may have been children. :crying:

 

[spacearrow99]

The Eastern Ukraine should ben closed months ago, and this really show gross negligence by the Ukraine Government, the airlines, and aviation authorities.

The Ukrainians have Buk 1 missile systems.

 

[Jagger69]

The Ukrainians have Buk 1 missile systems.

Are you contending that Ukraine is responsible for this? What would be their motivation? To "frame" the Soviet....err....I mean Russia?? What about the radio interception? A ruse??

Let's get real. This has got Putin's grimy fingerprints all over it.

 

[pool_hustler]

Are you contending that Ukraine is responsible for this? What would be their motivation? To "frame" the Soviet....err....I mean Russia?? What about the radio interception? A ruse??

Let's get real. This has got Putin's grimy fingerprints all over it.

Based on the below it seems pretty clear who's responsible, and it wasn't the Ukrainian military or government.

Social media posts by pro-Russian insurgents — most of them hastily removed — suggest the rebels thought they had shot down a Ukrainian army plane before realizing in horror that it was in fact a packed Malaysian airliner.

The Twitter and blog messages were immediately publicised by top Kiev officials in their furious information war with the Kremlin for global opinion and the hearts and minds of ethnic Russians caught in the worst East-West crisis since the Cold War.

Confirmation of separatist fighters killing 298 passengers and crew on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur would further complicate Russian President Vladimir Putin’s efforts to paint their uprising as a fight for self-determination.

Russia’s state media avoided any mention of the controversial posts and instead reported militia leaders’ later charges that the Ukrainian air force had shot down the Boeing 777 liner instead.

The rebels first claimed to have downed at least one Ukrainian army plane over the strife-torn eastern rust belt on late Thursday afternoon.

The VK social networking page of Igor Strelkov — “defence minister” of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic — first announced: “We just downed an An-26 near (the town of) Torez.”

“And here is a video confirming that a ‘bird fell’,” said the post.

The website then provides a link identical to that published by Ukrainian media in reports about the Malaysia Airlines jet.

The video shows locals referring to the same coal mine in the region mentioned by Strelkov.

The strongly pro-Kiev Ukrainska Pravda news site later posted an audio recording of what it claimed were the intercepted field communications between rebels and a Russian agent discussing the downing.

“We just downed a plane,” a rebel the recording identifies as Bes (Demon) tells an alleged Russian military intelligency officer.

Another recording shows one alleged fighter reporting from the site of the plane’s remains that it was “100% certain this is a civilian aircraft.”

He spits out a Russian expletive when asked whether there were a lot of passengers on board.

The VK post was soon removed — but not before its screen grab was captured and distributed in an English-language press release by the military headquarters of Kiev’s eastern campaign.

The comments attributed to Strelkov did not identify what missile was used to down the craft at what Kiev said was an altitude of 10,000m.

But a message on the official Twitter account of the Donetsk People’s Republic had announced hours earlier that insurgents had seized a series of Russian-made Buk systems capable of soaring to that height.

“@dnrpress: self-propelled Buk surface-to-air missile systems have been seized by the DNR from (Ukrainian) surface-to-air missile regiment A1402,” said the post.

That tweet was later deleted as well.


Read more: http://www.therakyatpost.com/news/2...els-downed-malaysian-jet-error/#ixzz37nIA2Feq

 

[spacearrow99]

Are you contending that Ukraine is responsible for this? What would be their motivation? To "frame" the Soviet....err....I mean Russia?? What about the radio interception? A ruse??

Let's get real. This has got Putin's grimy fingerprints all over it.

The Buk 1 missile system that shot down airplane was probably captured by the rebels. The Ukrainian Government is responsible for that airspace; they should've restricted commercial air travel in Eastern Ukraine. .

 

[Petra]

I really want to know who the fuck thought it was a good idea to fly over this part of the Ukraine, especially since a jet had been shot down at 20k feet the day before? I'm sure someone was sitting there going, "what are the chances they'll get a plane at 30,000 feet?" well, now you know.

The only blessing is the people aboard probably didn't feel a thing.

 

[spacearrow99]

The official U. S. stance is that the Ukrainian military probably didn't have air defense systems in Eastern Ukraine is dumb. What if the Russians invades, the Ukraine military would be sitting ducks for Russian military aircraft.

 

[Jagger69]

The Buk 1 missile system that shot down airplane was probably captured by the rebels.

Yeah and I'm probably going to win the lottery this weekend. There's not a shed of evidence to back up your claim. :bsflag: :noway:

In the meantime, there is a sizable amount of evidence that points back at the pro-Russian separatists and to Russia itself as being culpable:

THE FULL TRANSCRIPT OF THE ALLEGED REBEL CONVERSATION THAT COULD PROVE DAMNING TO PUTIN AND RUSSIA


A phone call between rebels where they are heard to say ‘holy s***’ when they realized their error was intercepted by Ukraine’s security services, according to a Ukrainian newspaper.

Militants nicknamed ‘Major’ and ‘Greek’ were recorded speaking as ‘Major’ inspected the crash site and found only ‘civilian items’.

Also on the line were Igor Bezler, who authorities says is a Russian military intelligence officer and leading commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, and a colonel in the main intelligence department of the general headquarters of the armed forces of the Russian Federation, Vasili Geranin.

The unverified transcript was posted online by the Kiev Post newspaper:

Igor Bezler: We have just shot down a plane. Group Minera. It fell down beyond Yenakievo (Donetsk Oblast).

Vasili Geranin: Pilots. Where are the pilots?

IB: Gone to search for and photograph the plane. Its smoking.

VG: How many minutes ago?

IB: About 30 minutes ago.

SBU comment: After examining the site of the plane the terrorists come to the conclusion that they have shot down a civilian plane. The next part of the conversation took place about 40 minutes later.

'Major': These are Chernukhin folks who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin check point. Those cossacks who are based in Chernukhino.

'Grek': Yes, Major.

'Major': The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first '200'. We have found the first '200' - which is code for a civilian.

'Grek': Well, what do you have there?

'Major': In short, it was 100 percent a passenger (civilian) aircraft.

'Grek': Are many people there?

'Major': Holy sh__t! The debris fell right into the yards (of homes).

'Grek': What kind of aircraft?

'Major': I haven’t ascertained this. I haven’t been to the main sight. I am only surveying the scene where the first bodies fell. There are the remains of internal brackets, seats and bodies.

'Grek': Is there anything left of the weapon?

'Major': Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.

'Grek': Are there documents?

'Major': Yes, of one Indonesian student. From a university in Thompson.

Militant: Regarding the plane shot down in the area of Snizhne-Torez. It’s a civilian one. Fell down near Grabove. There are lots of corpses of women and children. The Cossacks are out there looking at all this.

They say on TV it’s AN-26 transport plane, but they say it’s written Malaysia Airlines on the plane. What was it doing on Ukraine’s territory?

Nikolay Kozitsin: That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn’t be f…cking flying. There is a war going on.

In a third conversation, a rebel fighter says: 'It turned out to be a passenger plane. It fell in Hrabove area. There's a sea of women and children ...'

He adds: 'But what was it (the Malaysian airlines flight) doing over Ukraine?'

The man he is talking to replies: 'That means they've called up spies. No way to flights. This is war.'

'Okay, understood,' he replies.

'They discuss Russian saboteurs bringing down a passenger plane. They discuss the number of victims. We have fixed this conversation as taking place at 4.20. Now you know who carried out this inhuman crime against humanity,' Nalivaychenko said.

'We will open up to all possible channels, the means of this crime being objectively investigated, and the officers of the Russian Federation who carried out this crime being punished.'

Russia's Interfax news agency quoted Donetsk rebel spokesman Sergey Kavtaradze as denying that the intercepted phone conversations were genuine.

Yesterday it emerged that rebels laughed as they filmed the plane crashing, gleefully bragging ‘that was a blast – look at the smoke!’ while a fireball rose from the debris.

One of the voices is believed to be Strelkov, who then penned a triumphant war cry on Twitter, saying: ‘We warned you – do not fly in 'our sky'.’

A sickening mobile phone video posted online shows a pall of black smoke billowing over the crash site as three rebels provide an excited commentary.

The extraordinary footage – apparently filmed by the shooters themselves – charts the terrible final moments of the doomed airliner.

Their camera does not zoom in enough to see the plummeting plane in the sky, but the rebels’ voices can be heard talking happily of ‘black spots – these are the parts flying’, suggesting it fell to earth in several pieces.

A voice believed to be that of Strelkov – dubbed ‘Igor the Terrible’ – announces: ‘The plane was hit!’ He adds: ‘Look at those black spots, these are the parts, flying … it was a blast … look, look, black smoke!’

Another rebel, possibly referring to the missile system, laughs and says: ‘It was worth bringing this thing, wasn't it?’

None of the rebels can be seen in their horrific film, but it appears to be genuine because at the time only they seemed to know what was happening. Ordinary life carries on in the village where they are standing. A bus trundles by and an unsuspecting villager is seen wandering past the camera.

Shortly after the passenger plane was downed, Strelkov – seen smirking in propaganda photos – tweeted a boastful message claiming responsibility.

At the time, he apparently believed he had shot down an Antonov-26 military plane of the Ukrainian Air Force, saying it landed near a mine named Progress.

His chilling message read: ‘In the area Torez we just hit down An-26, it’s lying somewhere in the mine 'Progress'.

‘We warned you – do not fly in 'our sky'. And here is the video confirmation of the 'bird dropping'.

‘Bird fell near the mine, the residential sector was not disturbed. Civilians are not injured.’

Later as the horror became clear, the tweet was deleted.

Source (and a lot more) is here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lls-claim-PROVES-Russia-shot-Flight-MH17.html

I really want to know who the fuck thought it was a good idea to fly over this part of the Ukraine, especially since a jet had been shot down at 20k feet the day before? I'm sure someone was sitting there going, "what are the chances they'll get a plane at 30,000 feet?" well, now you know.

Couldn't agree more. Malaysian Airlines has a lot of questions to answer about this. What the hell were they thinking? If I'm the pilot and I see the flight plan takes us right over eastern Ukraine, I'm asking ATC for a reroute out of harm's way.

The only blessing is the people aboard probably didn't feel a thing.

I'd sure like to hope so but, since nobody has ever lived to tell us what it feels like to be blown to bits at 500 mph and 33,000 feet I think it's just as likely that there might be just a wee bit of discomfort involved. Ugh....makes my skin crawl....

 

[spacearrow99]

I haven't seen any concrete evidence. The Ukrainian records are not reliable; its stupid to place blame before knowing all the facts.

 

[cree]

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140717/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

before
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140716/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140710/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

http://www.focus.de/panorama/videos...h17-wich-von-der-flugroute-ab_id_3999318.html

 

[Jagger69]

I haven't seen any concrete evidence. The Ukrainian records are not reliable; its stupid to place blame before knowing all the facts.

OK, fair enough. Let's wait and see what the investigation shows.

 

[Lonilover]

I would hope that no single plane is flying over the Ukraine anymore... and also would avoid countries like Syria or Irak...

 

[BlkHawk]

BBC has a good article about flights over conflict zones. Before this shoot down event Syria was the only no fly conflict zone. Apparently flying over conflict zones is quite common. The shear volume of flights on those maps is rather mind blowing.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-28364306

 

[MissHybrid]

BBC has a good article about flights over conflict zones. Before this shoot down event Syria was the only no fly conflict zone. Apparently flying over conflict zones is quite common. The shear volume of flights on those maps is rather mind blowing.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-28364306

I just saw on the bbc news an animation of flights, there must have been hundreds of planes over Europe at any one time.

Sickening news coming in at the moment.

 

[288gto]

I just wanna say that I feel bad for all the loss there, mostly to the dutch. there's no excuse for crimes like these and whoever commited it has to be punished.