Kobe now ties MJ in 60 point games
- Thread starter laxe
- Start date
until he wins 3 more rings...no...and plus...what weird thing about this game...he didnt have a REBOUND...none...played 40+ mins...and had no rebounds...or a rebound...61 points and 20-20 from the line...it's just weird
Kobe scores that much because he has to for the Lakers to win.He's not even on the same planet as Jordan.
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
They may both have a sixty point game.
But, they never did what Wilt did.
Wilt Chamberlain's 100-point game
List of career achievements by Wilt Chamberlain
would be better if he didn't do it against my knicks.
Lol wut?
Yooouu don't know what your talking about. His average is way down this year.
And he didn't have any rebounds because his front court was grabbing them all.
Now I love Kobe. I'd probably let him fuck me in Denver, but until he gets a couple more rings, he's only the 2nd best shooting guard of all time.
I can name 15 players better than MJ
During his time? Name them please.
Haha, I would love to hear 15 players better than MJ. And a real fucking good explanation for each one.
In case you missed STDiva's post......
And I lol'ed again at your list, some of them are good but definitely not better than MJ.
kobe:
plays better man to man defense
more VERSATILE scorer
more SKILLFUL passer
better LEADER
takes less shots
81 points
pippen:
LED the bulls to SIX rings
better passer
better REBOUNDER
better shot blocker
200steals and 100 blocks!!
lebron:
better rebounder
better leader
better shot blocker
better LEADER
magic:
better passer
better rebounder
more VERSATILE
won the finals MVP in his ROOKIE YEAR(it took jordan about 8 years until he would rob pippen for the final MVP)
robertson:
Meet me on the court an Im trouble,last week fucked around and got a triple double
basically averaged a triple double in his ROOKIE year
the ONLY play to ever average a triple double FACT
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kobe:In the last 10 years NBA competition has grown to a skill level never before seen. With un-paralleled athletes like Vince Carter, Lebron James, Dwayne Wayde, Allen Iverson, and Tracy McGrady the NBA has ushered in a new era of talent. If you look at that list of athletes there is one obvious superstar missing, Kobe Bryant.
Kobe has separated himself from every other person on this planet so viscously it's sick. This season alone scoring 10 50-point games. Michael Jordan is usually referred to as one of the best basketball players, if not the best of all time. And there is no denying he is great. But to truly compare and contrast the two superstars you must look at contributing factors in play, not just stats and titles.
In this age of basketball the game has developed into a highly spectated sport and career. The ability to study other athletes is more accessible for players around the league. Therefore it is easier to defend superstars. Athletes around the league scout and study Kobe Bryant's moves yet still can't defend them.
Coaches double him, players triple him, and Kobe mixes em. The mentality of Kobe Bryant is incomparable. He manages to get inside the heads of his defenders, every shot he takes is taken like no one is in his face. The confidence is supreme. Kobe doesn't just think, he knows he will make every shot.
Kobe Bryant is the most prolific scorer in NBA history. He is the youngest player to score 18 thousand points. He is the youngest athlete named to the NBA All-Defensive Team, an honor he has achieved five times. He is the youngest person to ever win the NBA dunk competition. Kobe stunned fans on a magical unforgettable February night when he dropped 81 points on the Toronto Raptors, the second highest single game score in NBA history. In a game against Dallas in the 05-06 season Kobe Bryant outscored the entire Maverick team through three quarters.
pippen:
Pippen was the true LEADER. MJ did nothing w/o Pippen. Pippen led the Bulls to 55 wins and a playoff series win w/o MJ in 94 and led the Bulls in pts, rebs, asts, stls, and blks in 95. 2 things that MJ was NEVER able to do w/o Pippen.
Pippen was a better all around player than MJ.
SP career minutes: 41069
MJ career minutes: 41013
(almost identical)
SP career assists: 6135
MJ career assists: 5633
SP career rebounds: 7494
MJ career rebounds: 6672
SP career blocks: 947
MJ career blocks: 893
lebron:
Both LeBron James and Michael Jordan are/were explosive offensive players with great playmaking ability, and have/had the ability to change a game in an instant. While some players start slow and need time to learn and grow within the NBA, Jordan and James started off their careers with a ####. In each player’s first career game, Jordan notched 16 points while James scored 25 points. Both players not only went on to win the Rookie of the Year award, but also joined former NBA great Oscar Robertson as the only players to average at least 20 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists per game in their opening season. In addition, take into consideration the following statistical comparison, which states each player’s season averages for field goal percentage (FG%), three point field goal percentage (3PT%), free throw percentage (FT%), offensive rebounds per game (ORPG), assists per game (APG), points per game (PPG), and turnovers (TO).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeez, where to begin...
Jordan's defense was definitely overrated to a certain extent. The Bulls were never recognized as a good defensive team during Jordan's first couple of years with the team. It wasn't until they acquired Grant and Pippen that Jordan even MADE the all-defense team.
Jordan made guys better? Like who?
Horace Grant played 17 years in the NBA. B.J. Armstrong played 11 years in the NBA... the ONLY time EITHER of these guys EVER made the all star team was 1994... the year Jordan was retired. Pippen got BOTH of these guys to an all star game.
The 90s had Ewing, Olajuwon and Robinson (and later on, Shaq)... but the NBA was not totally dominated by big men... most of the big men in the NBA sucked during the 90s. Luc Longley sucked...Bill Cartwright sucked....
Between Moses Malone in 1983 and Shaq in 2000, the only big men to win the MVP award were Olajuwon and Robinson...and they did it in the two years Jordan was retired (1994 and 1995).
The 90s also saw a HUGE influx of high school players who were not ready for the NBA. Of COURSE it's easier for a guy like Jordan to dominate that kind of a league, not only full of high school players but also several expansion teams, the immediate impact of which is always to dilute the talent level of each team.
Let's also not forget that David Stern helped Jordan immensely by instituting a number of rule changes, not the least of which was to MOVE THE THREE POINT LINE IN. Here are Jordan's 3 point FG percentages, year by year...
1985 - 17.3%
1986 - 16.7% (only played 18 games)
1987 - 18.2%
1988 - 13.2%
1989 - 27.6%
1990 - 37.6%
1991 - 31.2%
1992 - 27.0%
1993 - 35.2%
1995 - 50.0% (played 17 games)
1996 - 42.7%
1997 - 37.4%
1998 - 23.8 %
2002 - 18.9%
2003 - 29.1%
Wanna guess when the 3 point line was moved in?
Do we need to go into how traveling was no longer called, nor was palming the ball? (of course, it's not Jordan's fault that these rules were never enforced with him... he was smart to take advantage of the fact that the refs were never going to call him for these violations).
In his post-Jordan career, Pippen reached the Western Conference finals... Jordan never even made it into the second round without Pippen... Pippen also got the Bulls to the 2nd round in 1994, when the press predicted that they would be lucky to win 15 games without Michael.
Jordan's career playoff record without Pippen was about 1 win and 10 loses. This hardly suggests a player who should be considered the GOAT.
Pippen also made the All-Defensive team with Chicago, Portland and Houston . He played great defense no matter where he was... In fact, he made the all-defensive team FOUR times WITHOUT having Jordan as a teammate. Jordan never made the all-defensive team without Pippen. Jordan is one of the most overrated defenders in NBA history.
It's easy to say that James Worthy would be a hall of famer no matter where he played, but that's far from a foregone conclusion. Worthy had drawbacks in his offensive game, but didn't have to worry about these things being exposed, because Magic used Worthy's skills perfectly. Worthy was better as a #3 option on offense than he would have been playing for the Clippers as the franchise player.
As for Kareem, he was ready to retire by 1978. He'd won an MVP award in 1977, and dominated Bill Walton in the Western Conference Finals (although the Blazers swept the Lakers, Jabbar outplayed Walton in 3 of the 4 games, usually be huge margins)... but Kareem was sick and tired of busting his a$$ out there every night, and he was ready to call it quits. He hung on for a couple of more years, getting blown out each time by Seattle in the playoffs, and he was totally frustrated. Along came Magic, and Kareem "magically" was able to last another 10 years in the NBA, including some dominant wins against the greatest front line of all time, the Parrish/Bird/McHale Celtics.... and Kareem went on to become the 5th leading scorer of the 1980s, after being the leading scorer for the decade of the 70s.
Finally, there is not ONE player in the entire NBA during the 80s or early 90s that would have taken Jordan to have as a team mate over Magic. EVERYONE wanted to play with Magic, because he truly made his teammates better. Guys were taking less money to go play with the Lakers and Magic because of what he did for his teammates. Anyone ever do that with Jordan?
Jordan never made ANYONE better. As I said, Pippen made all stars out of Horace Grant and B.J. Armstrong. Historians will look at that feat and ask "how the f*** did he DO THAT???" The answer is simple... magic.
And the 90s were HUGELY watered down.
So you complain that you're gonna hear about "Jordan didn't win without Pippen, etc". Well, HE DIDN'T. You're calling him the greatest of all time because he won 6 titles ... are you aware that 6 titles isn't a record??? Probably not. Well, it isn't.
Oh, and Bob McAdoo is a Hall of Famer ONLY because of his association with Magic...prior to his arrival with the Lakers, he was said to be a malingerer and a loser
plays better man to man defense
more VERSATILE scorer
more SKILLFUL passer
better LEADER
takes less shots
81 points
pippen:
LED the bulls to SIX rings
better passer
better REBOUNDER
better shot blocker
200steals and 100 blocks!!
lebron:
better rebounder
better leader
better shot blocker
better LEADER
magic:
better passer
better rebounder
more VERSATILE
won the finals MVP in his ROOKIE YEAR(it took jordan about 8 years until he would rob pippen for the final MVP)
robertson:
Meet me on the court an Im trouble,last week fucked around and got a triple double
basically averaged a triple double in his ROOKIE year
the ONLY play to ever average a triple double FACT
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kobe:In the last 10 years NBA competition has grown to a skill level never before seen. With un-paralleled athletes like Vince Carter, Lebron James, Dwayne Wayde, Allen Iverson, and Tracy McGrady the NBA has ushered in a new era of talent. If you look at that list of athletes there is one obvious superstar missing, Kobe Bryant.
Kobe has separated himself from every other person on this planet so viscously it's sick. This season alone scoring 10 50-point games. Michael Jordan is usually referred to as one of the best basketball players, if not the best of all time. And there is no denying he is great. But to truly compare and contrast the two superstars you must look at contributing factors in play, not just stats and titles.
In this age of basketball the game has developed into a highly spectated sport and career. The ability to study other athletes is more accessible for players around the league. Therefore it is easier to defend superstars. Athletes around the league scout and study Kobe Bryant's moves yet still can't defend them.
Coaches double him, players triple him, and Kobe mixes em. The mentality of Kobe Bryant is incomparable. He manages to get inside the heads of his defenders, every shot he takes is taken like no one is in his face. The confidence is supreme. Kobe doesn't just think, he knows he will make every shot.
Kobe Bryant is the most prolific scorer in NBA history. He is the youngest player to score 18 thousand points. He is the youngest athlete named to the NBA All-Defensive Team, an honor he has achieved five times. He is the youngest person to ever win the NBA dunk competition. Kobe stunned fans on a magical unforgettable February night when he dropped 81 points on the Toronto Raptors, the second highest single game score in NBA history. In a game against Dallas in the 05-06 season Kobe Bryant outscored the entire Maverick team through three quarters.
pippen:
Pippen was the true LEADER. MJ did nothing w/o Pippen. Pippen led the Bulls to 55 wins and a playoff series win w/o MJ in 94 and led the Bulls in pts, rebs, asts, stls, and blks in 95. 2 things that MJ was NEVER able to do w/o Pippen.
Pippen was a better all around player than MJ.
SP career minutes: 41069
MJ career minutes: 41013
(almost identical)
SP career assists: 6135
MJ career assists: 5633
SP career rebounds: 7494
MJ career rebounds: 6672
SP career blocks: 947
MJ career blocks: 893
lebron:
Both LeBron James and Michael Jordan are/were explosive offensive players with great playmaking ability, and have/had the ability to change a game in an instant. While some players start slow and need time to learn and grow within the NBA, Jordan and James started off their careers with a ####. In each player’s first career game, Jordan notched 16 points while James scored 25 points. Both players not only went on to win the Rookie of the Year award, but also joined former NBA great Oscar Robertson as the only players to average at least 20 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists per game in their opening season. In addition, take into consideration the following statistical comparison, which states each player’s season averages for field goal percentage (FG%), three point field goal percentage (3PT%), free throw percentage (FT%), offensive rebounds per game (ORPG), assists per game (APG), points per game (PPG), and turnovers (TO).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeez, where to begin...
Jordan's defense was definitely overrated to a certain extent. The Bulls were never recognized as a good defensive team during Jordan's first couple of years with the team. It wasn't until they acquired Grant and Pippen that Jordan even MADE the all-defense team.
Jordan made guys better? Like who?
Horace Grant played 17 years in the NBA. B.J. Armstrong played 11 years in the NBA... the ONLY time EITHER of these guys EVER made the all star team was 1994... the year Jordan was retired. Pippen got BOTH of these guys to an all star game.
The 90s had Ewing, Olajuwon and Robinson (and later on, Shaq)... but the NBA was not totally dominated by big men... most of the big men in the NBA sucked during the 90s. Luc Longley sucked...Bill Cartwright sucked....
Between Moses Malone in 1983 and Shaq in 2000, the only big men to win the MVP award were Olajuwon and Robinson...and they did it in the two years Jordan was retired (1994 and 1995).
The 90s also saw a HUGE influx of high school players who were not ready for the NBA. Of COURSE it's easier for a guy like Jordan to dominate that kind of a league, not only full of high school players but also several expansion teams, the immediate impact of which is always to dilute the talent level of each team.
Let's also not forget that David Stern helped Jordan immensely by instituting a number of rule changes, not the least of which was to MOVE THE THREE POINT LINE IN. Here are Jordan's 3 point FG percentages, year by year...
1985 - 17.3%
1986 - 16.7% (only played 18 games)
1987 - 18.2%
1988 - 13.2%
1989 - 27.6%
1990 - 37.6%
1991 - 31.2%
1992 - 27.0%
1993 - 35.2%
1995 - 50.0% (played 17 games)
1996 - 42.7%
1997 - 37.4%
1998 - 23.8 %
2002 - 18.9%
2003 - 29.1%
Wanna guess when the 3 point line was moved in?
Do we need to go into how traveling was no longer called, nor was palming the ball? (of course, it's not Jordan's fault that these rules were never enforced with him... he was smart to take advantage of the fact that the refs were never going to call him for these violations).
In his post-Jordan career, Pippen reached the Western Conference finals... Jordan never even made it into the second round without Pippen... Pippen also got the Bulls to the 2nd round in 1994, when the press predicted that they would be lucky to win 15 games without Michael.
Jordan's career playoff record without Pippen was about 1 win and 10 loses. This hardly suggests a player who should be considered the GOAT.
Pippen also made the All-Defensive team with Chicago, Portland and Houston . He played great defense no matter where he was... In fact, he made the all-defensive team FOUR times WITHOUT having Jordan as a teammate. Jordan never made the all-defensive team without Pippen. Jordan is one of the most overrated defenders in NBA history.
It's easy to say that James Worthy would be a hall of famer no matter where he played, but that's far from a foregone conclusion. Worthy had drawbacks in his offensive game, but didn't have to worry about these things being exposed, because Magic used Worthy's skills perfectly. Worthy was better as a #3 option on offense than he would have been playing for the Clippers as the franchise player.
As for Kareem, he was ready to retire by 1978. He'd won an MVP award in 1977, and dominated Bill Walton in the Western Conference Finals (although the Blazers swept the Lakers, Jabbar outplayed Walton in 3 of the 4 games, usually be huge margins)... but Kareem was sick and tired of busting his a$$ out there every night, and he was ready to call it quits. He hung on for a couple of more years, getting blown out each time by Seattle in the playoffs, and he was totally frustrated. Along came Magic, and Kareem "magically" was able to last another 10 years in the NBA, including some dominant wins against the greatest front line of all time, the Parrish/Bird/McHale Celtics.... and Kareem went on to become the 5th leading scorer of the 1980s, after being the leading scorer for the decade of the 70s.
Finally, there is not ONE player in the entire NBA during the 80s or early 90s that would have taken Jordan to have as a team mate over Magic. EVERYONE wanted to play with Magic, because he truly made his teammates better. Guys were taking less money to go play with the Lakers and Magic because of what he did for his teammates. Anyone ever do that with Jordan?
Jordan never made ANYONE better. As I said, Pippen made all stars out of Horace Grant and B.J. Armstrong. Historians will look at that feat and ask "how the f*** did he DO THAT???" The answer is simple... magic.
And the 90s were HUGELY watered down.
So you complain that you're gonna hear about "Jordan didn't win without Pippen, etc". Well, HE DIDN'T. You're calling him the greatest of all time because he won 6 titles ... are you aware that 6 titles isn't a record??? Probably not. Well, it isn't.
Oh, and Bob McAdoo is a Hall of Famer ONLY because of his association with Magic...prior to his arrival with the Lakers, he was said to be a malingerer and a loser
Your list is crap man. There are a few that could have an argument when they're careers are done, like Kobe, Lebron. But T-Mac??? Iverson???? CP-3??? Durant??? Lets be serious here.
I'll give you this. MJ may not be the GOAT. But he is top 3. That is for sure. You can throw Kobe, Wilt, Magic, Kareem and probably Lebron in there too.
I'll give you this. MJ may not be the GOAT. But he is top 3. That is for sure. You can throw Kobe, Wilt, Magic, Kareem and probably Lebron in there too.
Marlo Manson
Hello Sexy girl how your Toes doing?
Person accomplishments mean little in the grand scheme of a team oriented sport, MJ got those numbers cuz he willed his team to victory, he was often the only player that could score @ will, or in the crunch!
Besides I think Kobe is an Attention Whore, he has sufficient talent around hime where he doesn't need to score that many points, so in my mind, Kobe is and always will be in the rearview mirror when being compared to MJ as the greatest player ever!
Plus don't forget, MJ has 6 championship rings am I right? and Kobe has 3?
So until Kobe surpasses MJ with championship rings, IMHO I say MJ is, was, and always will be the best NBA player of all-time, all day, everyday!! :2 cents:
Besides I think Kobe is an Attention Whore, he has sufficient talent around hime where he doesn't need to score that many points, so in my mind, Kobe is and always will be in the rearview mirror when being compared to MJ as the greatest player ever!
Plus don't forget, MJ has 6 championship rings am I right? and Kobe has 3?
So until Kobe surpasses MJ with championship rings, IMHO I say MJ is, was, and always will be the best NBA player of all-time, all day, everyday!! :2 cents:
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