Iraq Uncensored

[LordVader66]

as for Iraq and Syria. Sadaam made arrangements for his family to go to Syria in case of a US invasion. I'm not saying that we should stay in Iraq...quite frankly I think it is a war that we cannot win. I do not support bush blindly..as a matter of fact I support him but I think when his term is up the country will be a lot better off. I do not agree with some of the things he is about. Cutting labor being one of them. Labor is the backbone of this country, it was built on the backs of hard working men. However, I do agree with his convictions. When he says something he means it and follows through with it, and I admire that even in the face of not being relected he never changed his stance for pulic opinion. Sadaam gave money to Syria and some of his faithful supporters and said that if the US should invade pay enough cash to create an insurgency and keep the US in Iraq fighting an urban war and kill Iraqis and all of that. He does not and did not care about his people. If he did he would have left Iraq and saved his countrys infastructure a lot of destruction. Benjamin Franklin stated after the decleration of independence was sent to King George that it is a peoples right to overthrow gov. when the people feel that gov is not acting in their best interest and welfare. The Americans were not the first to adopt this philosophy.

Sorry about the rant, I love a good discussion.

 

[Brino]

Well I still don't think Syria got any WMD's from Iraq, if they did then that would mean that we were even more incompetent than we thought in carrying out this war.

 

[XanderJack]

This is all we need to ask ourselves right?

 

[LetoII]

1) Don't presume anything about the reasons I support something. It's insulting.

2) Give me hardcore evidence that we're safe from terrorist attacks by leaving them alone and I'll be the first in line to say this war is pointless.

and what exactly is YOUR hardcore evidence that we're safer from terrorists by invading and seizing their countries ??? this kind of action is just putting fuel to the fire and will only result in a stronger support for the terroristic organizations. GWB is doing a hell of a job in creating even more potential terroristic menaces to the USA ! the terrorist issue can't be solved miltary-wise - that is a goddamn given fact !

"leaving them alone" is definitely not an option either. that wouldn't change anything. in fact, that is exactly why terrorist have occurred in the first place, because they were used and then left behind.
no, what we have to do is rebuilding their nations, helping their countries' population - in other words: take away their justification and motivation. even if that won't stop the actual terrorists to continue their holy war, it will most definitely cease the population's support for terrorists - and eventually the terrorists will have nothing left to fight for.
but this kind of solution seems to be almost impossible, now that Bush continues riding through the middle-east like a trigger-happy cowboy, trying to make the world a "safer" place

 

[the lion]

Everyone who thinks the media has a liberal bias is in denial, they don't question anything the government does any more. They just speak incesently about social security reform and Michael Jacksoff and take anything the white house press office feeds them. For God's sake Bush said he now has a mandate and the will of the people. He said no follw up questions at press conferencess! The press has given this guy more free passes than anyone in history. Where the fuck are the WMA'S? He and his people were directly warned about 9/11 but did nothing! Now it's about liberation and spreading democracy, bullshit! It is about OIL ! You know it, I know it, everyone know's it, no one wants to admit it. Growing up we believed we were the good guy's but now we see that our government is owned and operated by oil, insurance,and fear. We now have to spend so much time chasing the dollar just to survive that we don't have time to question any more. If this war is about human rights why do we (America) do nothing about China occupying Tibet? No Goddamn oil that's why! It is your job to question every action, motive, reason and thought of your leaders and they should be able to respond and discuss them with you, not question your patriotism.

 

[McRocket]

Good points Brino, Leto II and The Lion. And an interesting thought for conservatives Xanderjack. (boy, that was a kiss butt sentence or two - lol)

I think one of America's biggest problems is polarization. You are either liberal or conservative. With us or against us. IT seems to be rather 'unfashionable' to be in the middle. WHy is that? Frankly, I think those that are not die hard either are the most sensible ones.
BEcause once you swear up and down that you are a liberal or conservative, then it makes it that much harder for you to look at an issue from both sides.

I am conservative on certain things. And liberal on others. Probably more the latter then the former. But I am neither one no matter how much I agree with one particular side.

But one opinion I DO have. And I do not know if this is conservative or liberal. I have typed this before; but, people have to stop letting politicians go on trust. People trust Bush because he is conservative. WHy? He should have to re-earn that trust everytime he opens his mouth on an issue.

Trust is earned, not given away. And only the weak or the desperate trust without proof. And that goes for liberal leaders as well as conservative ones.

I trust NO politicians. Period. Only after they have proven their opinion do I believe them. No matter who it is.

 

[ÆGEAN]

god i hate us politics now, all the parties are the same, wait a minute there were only 2 to begin with! :laugh: at least here in oz the little guys hold the big 2 accountable, lol i voted for labor in the state and federal elections! but i think that is what is missing in us politics, the little guy to keep the big 2 in check.

 

[LetoII]

Everyone who thinks the media has a liberal bias is in denial, they don't question anything the government does any more. They just speak incesently about social security reform and Michael Jacksoff and take anything the white house press office feeds them. For God's sake Bush said he now has a mandate and the will of the people. He said no follw up questions at press conferencess! The press has given this guy more free passes than anyone in history. Where the fuck are the WMA'S? He and his people were directly warned about 9/11 but did nothing! Now it's about liberation and spreading democracy, bullshit! It is about OIL ! You know it, I know it, everyone know's it, no one wants to admit it. Growing up we believed we were the good guy's but now we see that our government is owned and operated by oil, insurance,and fear. We now have to spend so much time chasing the dollar just to survive that we don't have time to question any more. If this war is about human rights why do we (America) do nothing about China occupying Tibet? No Goddamn oil that's why! It is your job to question every action, motive, reason and thought of your leaders and they should be able to respond and discuss them with you, not question your patriotism.

excellent post. and you are soooo right !!! of course the whole thing is about oil and resources. politicians keep lying to us about that issue, using "human rights" as pretense for their actions, but the new NATO doctrine says it all: NATO soldiers are also allowed to operate outside of the confederative territory if/when the supplies of OUR (!!!) resources are imperiled !!!
i hope everyone realizes what that means. we're not only protecting what is ours, now we're also "protecting" what we would LIKE TO HAVE !!!

 

[LetoII]

BEcause once you swear up and down that you are a liberal or conservative, then it makes it that much harder for you to look at an issue from both sides.

amen to that ! the moment you simply adopt a political opinion and point of view you lose the opportunity to be objective.

very good points, mcrocket !!! :hatsoff:

 

[the lion]

Another thing to think about is why the media isn't allowed to film the body bags being unloaded off the plains? The white house tells you it is "out of respect for the soldiers and their families" Bullshit! If the white house had any respect for these "bodies" that used to have souls in them they would have never been sent over there in the first place. It is so that people will not be able to put a human toll on the daily losses of these young men and women in a war based totally on lies. If you don't see it, it didn't happen. Then the poor parents' have to go on T.V. and tell you how proud they are of their child, of course they are proud of them, so am I and I don't even support this war. They were brave and did what they had to. But, I can tell you this, I wouldn't give my child for all the democracy in the world.

But you guy's are right "they" (big business, oil, insurance, and weapons companies) have us right where they want us, polarized. Because that is when it is easy to sell a pagent of bullshit.

 

[Josado]

Everyone who thinks the media has a liberal bias is in denial, they don't question anything the government does any more. They just speak incesently about social security reform and Michael Jacksoff and take anything the white house press office feeds them. For God's sake Bush said he now has a mandate and the will of the people. He said no follw up questions at press conferencess! The press has given this guy more free passes than anyone in history. Where the fuck are the WMA'S? He and his people were directly warned about 9/11 but did nothing! Now it's about liberation and spreading democracy, bullshit! It is about OIL ! You know it, I know it, everyone know's it, no one wants to admit it. Growing up we believed we were the good guy's but now we see that our government is owned and operated by oil, insurance,and fear. We now have to spend so much time chasing the dollar just to survive that we don't have time to question any more. If this war is about human rights why do we (America) do nothing about China occupying Tibet? No Goddamn oil that's why! It is your job to question every action, motive, reason and thought of your leaders and they should be able to respond and discuss them with you, not question your patriotism.

Awesome post! And ain't it the damn truth. Sometimes it's hard for me to take what I'm thinking in my mind and actually put it on paper, or in this case, on screen. That's why I never post in here. But I do read it. And that was EXACTLY what I've been thinking all this time.