I think this sums up the Republican Party schism pretty good

Until Obama's lie the no new taxes pledge was the one, but it cost him reelection . none of the other things have been proven . if it could have been it would have.

Obamas lie was to control 1/6 of the economy. It hurt people and thousands will die because of it.. It has already started.

He is even working on a greater lie as i write this. His handling of ISIS.

Can't wait for this motherfucker to pack his **** and get the fuck out. No matter who replaces him.
 
So if you worked for Clinton you are not a reliable source of information? Do you even hear yourself when you say **** like this?

Ok so let's review a few other lies told by YOUR side.

Mission Accomplished

We'll use the oil in Iraq to pay for the war

We'll never allow the opium growers to regain status in Afghanistan

Iraq / Saddam funded 9/11

Iraq / Saddam harbored the 9/11 terrorists

Read my lips, no new taxes

Ronald Reagans Iran Contra disaster

Ronald Reagan using the CIA to import ******* to fund the Contra war



So you're saying Obama saying that people could keep their existing plan is equal to ANY of those on a scale measuring the deception of the american people? REALLY?

9/11, New Orleans, the joke at gitmo, the W administration was a traveling circus.
Ronald Reagan was an overrated dementia victim at best. W's ***** stayed out of Iraq and I credit him for that wise move.
 
9/11, New Orleans, the joke at gitmo, the W administration was a traveling circus.
Ronald Reagan was an overrated dementia victim at best. W's ***** stayed out of Iraq and I credit him for that wise move.

9/11 was an inside job, I take it. And Bush's main critic during Katrina is now doing time for his own lies and corruption. Priceless
 
9/11 was an inside job, I take it. And Bush's main critic during Katrina is now doing time for his own lies and corruption. Priceless

No it was not a inside job, it was a lack of effort or competence on W's entire administration.
Man never should have been president and you and yours are to blame.
 
Well Gruber didn't crawl out from under a rock. He was actually highly paid with taxpayer money to fabricate this scheme and he says that Obama knew. So in a sense,I have put up, with my hard earned tax dollars. You were the one that started calling presidents liars. You have been saying Bush lied since you have been here. So I ask you, where is Bush's Gruber? I'd love to see it. After all I am an opened minded fella, you know?

Gruber has no proof, neither do you and until you produce proof you're the liar. I'm 100% sure I didn't "start" calling presidents liars, but there's no doubt that it was you that started throwing the word liar around in this thread. On a side note, watching Mariah kick you around like a rag doll is hilarious.
 
Gruber has no proof, neither do you and until you produce proof you're the liar. I'm 100% sure I didn't "start" calling presidents liars, but there's no doubt that it was you that started throwing the word liar around in this thread. On a side note, watching Mariah kick you around like a rag doll is hilarious.

Gruber has plenty of documented proof. He was the czar that planned the whole scheme. Perhaps it will be presented before congress. You know like the hearings they had on the Iraq war that produced nothing? You have been saying that Bush lied his way into that war since your earliest postings here And here is the capper, if Obama didn't lie then he had the chance to change it, but why would he? It was what he wanted. Misrepresent the legislation, get it ****** and ask for forgiveness instead of permission .

The problem with you wing nut Obama drones is that you can't accept that this president is an abysmal failure. His legacy is falling apart right before our eyes , executive amnesty is going belly up, Obama care is likely going to be ****** because of state exchanges and subsidies. All he is going to leave is with is 20 trillion in debt, the lowest growth since World War II and not even 2 percent growth in any year of his presidency. I have to get my ass kicked by someone, you sure as hell aren't doing it.
 
Gruber has plenty of documented proof. He was the czar that planned the whole scheme. Perhaps it will be presented before congress. You know like the hearings they had on the Iraq war that produced nothing? You have been saying that Bush lied his way into that war since your earliest postings here And here is the capper, if Obama didn't lie then he had the chance to change it, but why would he? It was what he wanted. Misrepresent the legislation, get it ****** and ask for forgiveness instead of permission .

The problem with you wing nut Obama drones is that you can't accept that this president is an abysmal failure. His legacy is falling apart right before our eyes , executive amnesty is going belly up, Obama care is likely going to be ****** because of state exchanges and subsidies. All he is going to leave is with is 20 trillion in debt, the lowest growth since World War II and not even 2 percent growth in any year of his presidency. I have to get my ass kicked by someone, you sure as hell aren't doing it.

So you can't produce any proof. Gotcha. What was that you were saying about me not kicking your ass? I say Bush is lying using the same fucking metric you use when claiming Obama lied. And just to clarify, I haven't been saying Bush lied "since I got here", I only trot that out in response to idiotic claims by far right wing nuts. I know you think it helps take the sting out of the Reagan and the two Bush failed presidencies to put out the lame claim that Obama is a failure, too bad for you all the indications are to the contrary, just reaffirming what an abysmal failure trickle down Reaganomics have been for the last thirty five years. I've certainly taken issue with several initiatives Obama has pushed, the TPP being the most recent and a prime fucking example, so please, spare us the "Obama drone" rhetoric, it's demonstrably false. Until tax policy is changed we will continue to have deficits and the national debt will continue to grow, all a result of the kind of economy ******* policies you and your party want more of.
 
Gruber has plenty of documented proof. He was the czar that planned the whole scheme. Perhaps it will be presented before congress. You know like the hearings they had on the Iraq war that produced nothing? You have been saying that Bush lied his way into that war since your earliest postings here And here is the capper, if Obama didn't lie then he had the chance to change it, but why would he? It was what he wanted. Misrepresent the legislation, get it ****** and ask for forgiveness instead of permission .

The problem with you wing nut Obama drones is that you can't accept that this president is an abysmal failure. His legacy is falling apart right before our eyes , executive amnesty is going belly up, Obama care is likely going to be ****** because of state exchanges and subsidies. All he is going to leave is with is 20 trillion in debt, the lowest growth since World War II and not even 2 percent growth in any year of his presidency. I have to get my ass kicked by someone, you sure as hell aren't doing it.

The entire Obama rant has become white noise.
 
Grubar is the equivalent of the sec of defense saying Bush lied to wage war .

I know that Gruber Arnold causes great butthurt for your side as it should. I wouldn't want the dastardly scheme revealed either. Yeah, Obama is a stellar economic genius, lowest job growth since the Great Depression and lowest growth over all since WWII

Bang up job Barry is doing. I long for the days that a president from any party could increase the budget and debt and at least have some prosperity to show for it and not make us look weak to the rest of the world.

He's your president and a **** poor one at that. Its time you own it
 
Grubar is the equivalent of the sec of defense saying Bush lied to wage war .

I know that Gruber Arnold causes great butthurt for your side as it should. I wouldn't want the dastardly scheme revealed either. Yeah, Obama is a stellar economic genius, lowest job growth since the Great Depression and lowest growth over all since WWII

Bang up job Barry is doing. I long for the days that a president from any party could increase the budget and debt and at least have some prosperity to show for it and not make us look weak to the rest of the world.

He's your president and a **** poor one at that. Its time you own it

Gruber, like yourself, can either produce the evidence or shut the fuck up. Other wise it is, indeed, merely noise and you can continue trying to sell the idea that Obama is a failure, no one around here is buying it. Look at where the economy is compared to where it was after eight years of Bush, and that's despite an obstructionist House since 2010 and now an obstructionist House and Senate. Until the tax code is changed and we move away from the idiotic policies of Reaganomics the debt will continue to climb, regardless of who occupies the White House. I've asked before, I'll ask again, just how do you expect the same failed policies; lower taxes, less regulation, etc., to work when thirty five years of evidence proves it's does nothing but add debt, grow the income gap, and destroy the middle class?
 
You can produce the evidence that Bush intentionally lied to wage war in Iraq or shut the fuck up. The middle class was doing fine during Reagan's term, they even banded together to give him a landslide victory in 1984.

Yep, those were Reagan democrats that were so distraught that traditionally blue states voted red
Now for your wonderful president.

I was wondering how long it would take you to bring up the collapse of 2008. How long are you going to cry about this? We also had a Great Depression and fought wars and dug ourselves out of it. No ******, blaming the other guy and what they inherited, just dealt with it and overcame it. Obama doesn't have the capacity to bring us out of it or else our economy wouldn't be so anemic 7 years later

He wanted the job, and he is obviously over his head. So what do you think he should do about it? Let me guess, raise taxes on the job creators, yeah that should work. I am looking forward to reading your solution. lol
 
Using the same fucking metric you're using I will continue to say Bush lied anytime you claim Obama "lied". As for Jonathan Gruber, I'm shooting him an email and asking him directly if he thinks President Obama lied. If he responds I'll be sure to post whatever he says. Of course we get to blame Reaganomics for the failed policies of tax-cut-and-spend, it's what the whole model is based on. I asked you specifically above why you think the same failed policies will somehow magically start to work, which you failed to respond to. It won't work and its the accumulation of debt that's been such a drag on the economy, of course they didn't feel the deficits in the early years of Reaganomics it's been a congruence of poor fiscal policy, shipping jobs overseas, and favoring the wealthy that has been so detrimental to everyone from the middle class down. You don't have the courage to say what wing nuts like you really want, and that is to decimate the social safety net to line to the pockets of the wealthy elite. Why do you fuckers believe the VooDoo, or worse, why do you continue to push for it when you know it won't work? Keep pushing to destroy Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, etc., and what do you expect the people who will be hurt the most by the misguided efforts to do, and better, if you actually got what you wanted, then what? It certainly wouldn't do anything to bring the poor out of poverty, push up the middle class, or bring about anything other than misery. Seriously, what the fuck is the grand vision, because I don't see it. Let's say we cut the tax rate to 10%, ended all regulation, and, made profit the prime motivator, we've seen for thirty five years jobs shipped overseas, the income gap grow, and opportunity get more and more elusive. Extending and expanding the policies you champion will only make all of that worse.
 
Ever noticed that all you do is ask questions and never offer any solutions? Another thing, the Reagan model was not followed, starting with GHWB. Clinton raised the tax rate , but he had to agree to cuts. As I said before, he enjoyed the peak of the dot.com bubble and that with the republican congress insisting on cuts and a balanced budget allowed for the economy to sail along. We were still enjoying the benefits of supply side economics 10 years after Reagan left in spite of tax and cut. Tax cut and spend was what Bush practiced and it proved to be a disaster coupled with the wars . so as I have said before Bush was a failure and so is Obama. The question still remains, where is the proof that GWB intentionally lied to lead us into war? Obama asked for a tax hike and he got it. Exemptions have been eliminated yet still no results. Clinton wanted NAFTA and got it. None of this was Reaganomics. The middle class flourished under Reagan and has been destroyed under Bush and Obama and their policies are to blame. The difference is, Obama sought the job, promised to improve and has failed. GWB in a third term would do a better job.
 
Ever noticed that all you do is ask questions and never offer any solutions? Another thing, the Reagan model was not followed, starting with GHWB. Clinton raised the tax rate , but he had to agree to cuts. As I said before, he enjoyed the peak of the dot.com bubble and that with the republican congress insisting on cuts and a balanced budget allowed for the economy to sail along. We were still enjoying the benefits of supply side economics 10 years after Reagan left in spite of tax and cut. Tax cut and spend was what Bush practiced and it proved to be a disaster coupled with the wars . so as I have said before Bush was a failure and so is Obama. The question still remains, where is the proof that GWB intentionally lied to lead us into war? Obama asked for a tax hike and he got it. Exemptions have been eliminated yet still no results. Clinton wanted NAFTA and got it. None of this was Reaganomics. The middle class flourished under Reagan and has been destroyed under Bush and Obama and their policies are to blame. The difference is, Obama sought the job, promised to improve and has failed. GWB in a third term would do a better job.

All you do is avoid answering the questions and try to change the topic. The tax rate has remained low (big part of Reaganomics) for the last thirty five years, with nothing to show for it except expanded wealth at the top. Expanded wealth at the top is the true goal of "supply-side" economics, the theory that if you feed a ***** enough oats that the sparrows will eat whatever comes out the other end. You really need to educate yourself on failed republican economics, supply-side was tried before and failed miserably the first time, too. You can keep asking the question, "where is the proof Bush lied us into war", but it rings hollow as long as you claim Obama lied about healthcare reform. I'm still waiting on a response from Jonathan Gruber, I'll be sure to let you know what he says if he replies. The tax rates being raised a mealy mouthed couple of percentage points recently didn't go far enough, not to mention the need to eliminate the caps on Social Security tax. I'm still waiting on you to address the points I've already raised; Why do you fuckers believe the VooDoo, or worse, why do you continue to push for it when you know it won't work? what do you expect the people who will be hurt the most by the misguided efforts to do, and better, if you actually got what you wanted, then what? What the fuck is the grand vision? Stop being a coward and address the questions.
 
All you do is avoid answering the questions and try to change the topic. The tax rate has remained low (big part of Reaganomics) for the last thirty five years, with nothing to show for it except expanded wealth at the top. Expanded wealth at the top is the true goal of "supply-side" economics, the theory that if you feed a ***** enough oats that the sparrows will eat whatever comes out the other end. You really need to educate yourself on failed republican economics, supply-side was tried before and failed miserably the first time, too. You can keep asking the question, "where is the proof Bush lied us into war", but it rings hollow as long as you claim Obama lied about healthcare reform. I'm still waiting on a response from Jonathan Gruber, I'll be sure to let you know what he says if he replies. The tax rates being raised a mealy mouthed couple of percentage points recently didn't go far enough, not to mention the need to eliminate the caps on Social Security tax. I'm still waiting on you to address the points I've already raised; Why do you fuckers believe the VooDoo, or worse, why do you continue to push for it when you know it won't work? what do you expect the people who will be hurt the most by the misguided efforts to do, and better, if you actually got what you wanted, then what? What the fuck is the grand vision? Stop being a coward and address the questions.
Since you seem very eager to become educated, you can be my little rag doll for a while.

Since we are talking inheriting a bad economic situation, by today's standards Reagan inherited far more dire circumstances. The recession that started in the late 60's was starting to ferment.
In 1981 the unemployment rate was at 10 percent, interest rates were at 22 percent. Double digit inflation and CPI of 11 percent. During Carter's last 2 years in office the poverty rate increased 33 percent to 15 percent. Median ****** income fell by 10 percent from 78-82. The Dow lost 70 percent of its actual value during that time.

Reagan's plan:

1- Cut tax rates to stimulate economic growth.

2-Spending reductions, 31 billion in FY 81-82 equal to 180 billion now. Including the lowering of non defense discretionary spending which was never raised during his term. Reagan built up the military and lowered federal spending from 23 percent of GDP average to 21 percent at it's lowest. Which was a real reduction relative to the economy of 10 percent.

3- Restrain money supply compared to the demand, thus strengthening the dollar.


4- Deregulation which saved consumers 100 billion a year in lower prices. Executive orders that actually helped people like eliminating price controls on oil and natural gas. Production went through the roof.

Once these policies were in place, there was not another recession for over 95 months, the longest stretch in history. Reagan also accomplished this while tackling and holding down inflation like the country had never seen before. The poverty rate declined for 7 years straight under Reagan. That is 25 years of prosperity enjoyed by and because of Reaganomics slick. ****, even disposable income rose by 18 percent, yeah old Ronny really stuck it to the poor and middle class. Even Bush 41 or Clinton couldn't fuck it up. On the other hand, Obama is going in the direct opposite direction, and 25 years after his term. Things will not be so wonderful ,(as if they are now). We haven't even really seen the full effects of Obama's hikes that took effect in 2013, including capital gains increases. Poverty is soaring under this fucker and he doesn't have a clue how to stop the ********. So you cotdam right, I want to see a return to the economic policies that actually created wealth ,prosperity and middle class confidence instead of the bullshit your side endorses.

I spelled them out, they worked, end of story. No amount of revisionist bullshit from you left wing tit whistles will ever change that.
 
Oh and by the way, do you really think Gruber is going to give a random email solicited by an anonymous person a scoop?

He wouldn't admit to it unless he is placed under oath. I am hoping that happens soon. You can tell him I said that.
 
Reagan traded short-term prosperity for long term misery. Even Reagan acknowledged that doubling the national debt during his presidency was one of his biggest disappointments and set in motion the policies that continue to grow the debt all these years later. You can try to give credit to Reagan all you like but reality doesn't fit your tea party fantasies. Reagan had to raise taxes more than once to make up for the shortfalls his foolhardy policies were producing. I suggest you quit believing everything the right wing revisionists like to feed their unquestioning flocks, trickle down has never worked, will never work, can never work because the greed at the top continually absorbs everything and nothing ever trickles down. We end up with an ever increasing income gap and the poor getting pinched harder and harder. At what point are those of you foolish enough to buy into the VooDoo going to realize that there's not any more ***** to be drained from the middle class and the poor? $20 trillion in debt, and it's still not enough for the greedy.
 
The fact that you believe in trickle down, when the government does the trickling is rife with irony.

Short term prosperity my ass. 25 MF years of short term prosperity.
 
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