roronoa3000
Banned
They fought to keep slavery, not for honor. The fought for the tradition of slavery.
How Different Would America be Today if the CSA Won?
- Thread starter ManifestDestiny
- Start date
At this point in time I don't think things would be all that different, although it's possible we'd still be experiencing the final stages of a Jim Crow society as opposed to being 45 years beyond one.
Slavery would have been abolished around the turn of the century. Technology would have rendered it both impractical and exorbitantly expensive. The fate of former slaves would not have been pleasant. At best they'd have had the same status they had in the south during the actual post war years . Beatings, lynchings and other forms of murder would have been far more commonplace.
Within 10 years after the Civil War the CSA would have attacked and conquered Cuba, which would have eventually become a confederate state.
My guess is the CSA would also have successfully aggressed militarily against Mexico, winning part (northern and/or gulf coast states) of Mexico in the process.
Slavery would have been abolished around the turn of the century. Technology would have rendered it both impractical and exorbitantly expensive. The fate of former slaves would not have been pleasant. At best they'd have had the same status they had in the south during the actual post war years . Beatings, lynchings and other forms of murder would have been far more commonplace.
Within 10 years after the Civil War the CSA would have attacked and conquered Cuba, which would have eventually become a confederate state.
My guess is the CSA would also have successfully aggressed militarily against Mexico, winning part (northern and/or gulf coast states) of Mexico in the process.
If it is not racist then tell me why i have seen various neo nazi and other fucktard racist groups in germany and other places flying that flag
alongside other nazi parafernalia hmmmm?
No european person or anyone else not from the south could have no other reason to fly that flag other than what i said.
not everyone who flies that flag is a racist but every racist i have seen has flown that flag.
swishScore one 4 the Z-man
That's simply a case of racists misusing the flag as their symbol due to some sort of gross misinterpretation. Even in the UK the skinheads have adopted the Union Jack so now whenever you see the flag flying there will always be the assumption it's being flown by racists eventhough it's the legitimate flag of Great Britain and anyone should be able to fly it for patriotic reasons without fear of being labelled a racist, I guess the same can be said of the Confederate flag as well as the Swastika symbol which was an asian symbol for peace for many years before the Nazis tainted it for their own beliefs. In short it aint a legitimate symbols fault (unless it was created as a racist symbol) that racist adopt it to affiliate themselves and you also can't criticise people who display the symbol as long as it's for non racist reasons.
From Wikipedia
If the South had won they would have probably shipped all blacks to Liberia. Then the United States would've had a black population. The black population would have had a different tune about whites. that was kind of the point of the question/thread started here.
roronoa3000
Banned
^If the South won, why would they ship blacks anywhere? They fought to keep slavery, why would they win give up then what they fought for?
Blacks would have a different tune about whites?
Blacks would have a different tune about whites?
^If the South won, why would they ship blacks anywhere? They fought to keep slavery, why would they win give up then what they fought for?
Blacks would have a different tune about whites?
You are 100% correct.Their economy was dependant on the slaves.This is why for most blacks so called freedom actually meant little change in their lives.The south was an agrarian culture dependant on the blacks to do the labor whether they were free or not.They were free but had little options so were basically in same boat they had been as slaves for long after the end of the civil war.
Also the sending them to Liberia idea was something Lincoln actually proposed.He was against slavery but still was somewhat racist as most of his time were.
GregCentauro
Banned
... and there are those who know that it stands for genetic deficiences caused by centuries of inbreeding, NASCAR and the unshakable belief in a nonexistent god.
^
Blacks would have a different tune about whites?
Yes, absolutely. They would have a better understanding that whites fought and died for them. Maybe if there was a CSA it would be harder on blacks and the north would be much better and therefore a much different perspective would develope.
I think most blacks get that some whites have shed blood, sweat and tears beside their cause.
I imagine there is just as ignorant an element of blacks who don't appreciate this truth as there are whites who don't appreciate it of blacks.
Had the confederacy won, they would have not only continued to subjugate blacks but persecute those who would have exercised moral outrage over it.
You ask how would America be different today? Well, we don't have to imagine it we saw it for generations after the Civil War...as not much if anything changed in the south after it except that slavery was technically illegal.
Blacks would not have gone anywhere under the confederacy as there are jobs still today that call for the cheapest of labor. I'd likely be seeing black slaves working in the strawberry fields today here in California instead of illegal immigrants.
So your altruistic perspective on the what ifs had the confederacy won are at best naive and at worst intellectually dishonest IMO.
Rep...I saw that one and many of M/D's posts came to mind.
:hatsoff: For beating me to it...although I was considering adorning a siggy with it.:o
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Most definitely. In fact, the "emancipation" of the slaves led to the rapid development and swift proliferation of what eventually evolved into what is now the the US prison system. Especially in the former confederate states, state prison systems and the subsequent leasing of convict labor represented, in many ways, the "new slavery". And how convenient that the majority of convicts happened to be black! During this transformation, the plantation system was preserved in many areas. Ultimately, after the turn of the century, the wave of social and political reform that swept the nation during the administration of Theodore Roosevelt did away with convict leasing once and for all but it was allowed to flourish for many years in the south after the end of the Civil War. What a travesty. For most blacks, "freedom" just meant another form of slavery (or, at the very least, subjugation). A really good book that exposes this is Texas Tough by Robert Perkinson and I highly recommend it if the subject interests anyone.
Well, that and the fact that slavery basically continued as "sharecropping".
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
"Continued" or "continues"? Ever been to northern Mississippi?
The sharecroppers were the lucky ones.
Yes it was, but I disagree slightly (or perhaps its just a matter of semantics) with your conclusion. It seems to me Lincoln's proposal was less about him being racist and more about him looking around at the predominance of racism in America and not being able to conceive of any way blacks would ever be accepted as equals by the white majority.
Based on that strong impression it seemed more humane to him to propose an action wherein black americans would be able to control their own destiny elsewhere.
A number of black leaders disabused him of the desirability of that idea, and in relatively short order Lincoln's perspective on the situation evolved away from pro-colonization.
The CSA would be nonexistent. If they had one that would have established the right to secession, so Texas, Louisiana and probably others would have split away from the confederacy.
Mexico would have taken back Arizona, New Mexico and part of Texas. California would have remained in the US and was too populated to be taken back by Mexico.
There would eventually be a successful slave revolt, supplied and funded by the US. The angry white male southerner would have been wiped out.
Mexico would have taken back Arizona, New Mexico and part of Texas. California would have remained in the US and was too populated to be taken back by Mexico.
There would eventually be a successful slave revolt, supplied and funded by the US. The angry white male southerner would have been wiped out.
roronoa3000
Banned
NASCAR and Queer Beatin' would be Americas top sports
But the thing is the vast majority of white northerners did not fight and die to free the slaves. At least not directly. Yes that was an end result, but as a war aim it was grandfathered in by Lincoln when the war was already 17 months old.
The large existing federal armies, which at that point were all volunteers, had almost to a man signed up to fight against rebellion and disunion. A great percentage of them didn't give two shits about slavery one way or the other. A great percentage of those were perfectly content to have blacks contained in the south by the peculiar institution.
As a matter of fact, anti-abolition sentiment was so strong in parts of the north, and even among some of the Union Army's generals (most notably McClellan) that Lincoln genuinely feared the Army of The Potomac might turn on Washington and forcibly unseat him once he issued the Emancipation Proclamation.
So yes, a major end result of the civil war was emancipation, but that result was mostly achieved by association with the primary principle white northerners committed to fight and die for; the preservation of the union.
Sounds about what Marcus Garvey wanted as well as Malcolm X. Sometimes you go down below to see the hidden bubbling cesspool of racial tension in this country and wonder what might have happened had things been done a little differently. I suppose this is what the thread starter had intended us to think about when he/she started this little topic. However, I believe that person is sadly mistaken if they think that the confederacy winning the war would some how make blacks hate whites any less than many of them do or have and vice versa. Most people are usually under the assumption that slavery is why blacks retain much of their disdain for whites. While that is an issue, there are a few that are ahead on the black folk shit list.
Given how things have turned out, it would be safe to assume that the outcome that we have now was probably the best outcome. After all, we all have to interact with one another at some point in the planet's history if we are ever going to conquer the galaxy as Stephen Hawking suggests we do. At least that is what I want to take away from his ramblings about colonizing space. Better we get the bullshit squabbles out of the way now rather than later on while fighting off hordes of tentacle-faced aliens that shoot beams out of their arse.
that would have been awesome. stupid dumbass rednecks that started slavery shouldve all been gunned down anyway. they ruined the country to begin with.
