Gun Control Groups Prepare for 'National Day of Protest'
- Thread starter meesterperfect
- Start date
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
The murder rate is higher in the U.K. than the U.S.??? I'd sure like to see that reference, AFA.
In actuality, the non-gun murder rate in the U.S. is higher than the total murder rate in many European countries. I guess my point is that the facts support the premise that there are many reasons for the exorbitantly high per-capita murder rate in the U.S. and easy access to guns are a factor, although certainly not the only or perhaps not even the most important. That is a whole other discussion.
This is a good resource for data on this subject:
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html
I'm thinking about the ban in Australia which I understood caused the rate to rise. The statistics don't account for people who successfully defended themselves against criminals with guns. Criminals will get guns legal or not.
I think mindless violence on TV, movies and games sets up a pretty substantial view of the culture to see violence as a way of life.
I think that link supports my statement. As they said, the murder rate in Britian was lower before gun control anyway. The US culture fails on a lot of accounts I'm afraid.
Watching local news, I live in a gun tolerant area, and it seems most murders are committed without guns, but successful defenses against home invasion are with guns.
I think mindless violence on TV, movies and games sets up a pretty substantial view of the culture to see violence as a way of life.
I think that link supports my statement. As they said, the murder rate in Britian was lower before gun control anyway. The US culture fails on a lot of accounts I'm afraid.
Watching local news, I live in a gun tolerant area, and it seems most murders are committed without guns, but successful defenses against home invasion are with guns.
Last edited:
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Self-defense isn't murder (at least in the U.S.) so I don't believe they count in the stats. I do absolutely agree that we have created a culture of violence (in the U.S.) with different media that has way more influence on behavior than availability of guns. Lastly, if the old "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" slogan is used to justify easy access to firearms, why do we bother to outlaw things like drugs, dogfighting, ad infinitum???
I agree with this.I may support the right to guns but would not try to assert that there is not a corresponding price we pay in ease of murders.This is not an easy issue I know, but many libertys come at a cost.As someone once said "those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neitheir".This is my feeling about all the internal surveilance the Bush Administration has engaged in also,no doubt it makes us safer but the cost of that safety is our freedoms and it's too high a price IMO.Here are some figures on Homicide rates worldwide from 2000,the most current numbers I could find.I think one thing that would be dramatically different now as opposed to 2000 would be I think Iraq would be near the top of the list while it does not even show up on the 2000 one.Aren't they just so much better off?NOT!!
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/homicide.htm#murd
While things like cigarettes, cars capable of speeds in excess of 100mph, ads for weight loss products that can result in heart damage. Fertilizer which is a pollutant. Prescription drug ads for less effective but more expensive drugs the makers are trying to recover their investment on rarely ever addressed?
Because the bottom line is someone is making money, and those who are support politicians who promise them perks. I think TV, movie, and game violence is what is creating that violence epidemic, but short sighted politicians, simply can't grasp the extent of that damage and really never do anything meaningful.
Politicians have sold people on the fantasy idea that the world would be safer if there were no guns, but that's not going to ever happen. It simply is fantasy.
You take my gun, but the bad guy who breaks in and kills my family won't give his up. That's why he's called a criminal!
Last edited:
meesterperfect
Hiliary 2020
Yep, the best way to reduce crime is make the victims of it udderly defensless.
And if we don't give them up what will you do? Shoot us?
Seems like a double standard to me.That's a good idea. Why not just get a bad guy list of the bad guys with guns? Then take your tank to their houses and take their guns.
No list? Oh jeeeze. Then you better go get the guys who are law abiding enough to put their names on the good guy list!
At the least it makes a political statement and some people will really think you're smart.
Last edited:
And if we don't give them up what will you do? Shoot us?
if you want to make an omlet you gotta break a few eggs.
omelet I just made one.
Don't you like my bad guy list idea?
http://board.freeones.com/showpost.php?p=1602190&postcount=31
You can still get to drive your tank. :dunno:
well sure. But if there is a list of bad guys with guns, why don't the cops go after them? isn't that what they are supposed to do?
maybe people should just stop buying guns. I mean it's not like people are making a lot of there own guns, I assume that most "illegal" guns are one's that were aquired at least from the manufacturer legitamately and it's just thier distribution that isn't done with documentation.
maybe people should just stop buying guns. I mean it's not like people are making a lot of there own guns, I assume that most "illegal" guns are one's that were aquired at least from the manufacturer legitamately and it's just thier distribution that isn't done with documentation.
meesterperfect
Hiliary 2020
Ah-Ha, precisely!!!!!!!
Brilliant!!!!!!!
You see even the police admit they can not prevent violent crimes.
They can investigate after the fact.
All the more reason if a person chooses to have a firearm, they should be given that right.
I can threaten to kill somene, I can drive around with a loudspeaker shouting I,m gonna kill John Smith, no matter what.
The most the police can do is arrest me for threats and maybe disturbing the peace.
But they aint gonna stop me from killing John Smith, only John Smith can prevent that.
But dont worry Calpoon, I applied for a firearms ID a few years ok. Did everything I needed to do, fingerprints, FBI check.
I was sent a letter saying they are overwhelmed with applications at this time, try again in 6 months.
MMMMM omlets:yesyes:
you shoulda just bought one for 50 bucks at a gun show.
But isn't that fantasy as you called me on in post #28 above. I said it was fantasy. Do you think guns will just, disappear? There are tens of millions of guns. Do you think people will stop buying guns or having guns? You yourself wanted to round up all the guns with your tank. Isn't that a BIG gun? You also implied meesterperfect buy a gun without documentation at a gun show for $50. Are you suggesting he doesn't go on the list? Can you buy a gun at a gun show for $50? You really don't know.
What Police list of bad guys with guns? How do you get a bad guy list? Do bad guys give their names to the Police when they get a gun?
So, now if I understand, you can't control bad guys from having guns because they can acquire them illegally, but you can control good guys because they get them legally and are therefore on a list? So if you take the guns from the good guys who are law abiding, have you figured out how to get them away from the bad guys who are not? :dunno:
I really think your view isn't very well thought out, but I think You Might be seeing the crux of the problem. Politicians can't get the guns out of the hands of the bad guys. The only list they have is of the good guys, so they want to take them from the good guys with the promise of safer streets. Now isn't that stupid?
Does that really make a lot of sense to you?
Last edited:
As a Canadian, I understand what you mean.
But having lived in the 'states for a few years and knowing allot of Americans and getting bombarded daily with American media, I think I have a suggestion as to why they love guns so much (though I realize I am NO expert).
Ask an American what they love about America; and the most common answer may be 'freedom'. As exemplified in this 1+ minute video:
http://sg.video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=177553
This despite the fact that Americans have by far the most powerful military in the World. And are probably the most free and definitely the most well protected people on the planet.
And I believe that nothing makes an average person feel more safe, powerful and free; easier and at less cost then owning a semi automatic weapon.
Americans will give many other reasons. But I personally think this is the over riding one.
if guns are outlawed the only outlaws will have guns. so therefor anyone who has a gun is a criminal and they should be put in jail. seems easy enough to determine to me.
ok, so really what I'm getting at here is that there are silly things, what you would call fantasy, and then there are practical things that can be done. maybe the line is a little bit blurry, but that's how things work. it takes people to do things that seem crazy sometimes to pave the way for new things.
I am not really sure if I want a gun free society and what that entails. I do know that the gun policy we have along with many others, I feel, Isn't working to make society safer or more free or more happy. So the only solution that I can see to is to try to change that by doing new things. I don't know what those new things are, or if they will work, but I support trying them.
If people or a person decides that what they want to do is work toward a gun free society the best and simplest thing that they can do is to not own a gun. You may call that a fantasy and say that it's never going to work, because some people will always have guns no matter what. But just because everyone is not 100% agreed on an idea, does that make it a failure? Most people in europe don't own guns, some do. I think that it's still a test of time how successful that will ultimately be, but it shows that the experiment can be done and at least in that way it's not a failure.
ok, so really what I'm getting at here is that there are silly things, what you would call fantasy, and then there are practical things that can be done. maybe the line is a little bit blurry, but that's how things work. it takes people to do things that seem crazy sometimes to pave the way for new things.
I am not really sure if I want a gun free society and what that entails. I do know that the gun policy we have along with many others, I feel, Isn't working to make society safer or more free or more happy. So the only solution that I can see to is to try to change that by doing new things. I don't know what those new things are, or if they will work, but I support trying them.
If people or a person decides that what they want to do is work toward a gun free society the best and simplest thing that they can do is to not own a gun. You may call that a fantasy and say that it's never going to work, because some people will always have guns no matter what. But just because everyone is not 100% agreed on an idea, does that make it a failure? Most people in europe don't own guns, some do. I think that it's still a test of time how successful that will ultimately be, but it shows that the experiment can be done and at least in that way it's not a failure.
Similar threads
