Germanwings Airline Crash: voice recorder recovered. Pilot was locked out of the cockpit.
- Thread starter sean miguel
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- news of 2015
GodsEmbryo
Closed Account
As much as I respect someone's choice to step out of life (assuming we're talking about suicide here), I cannot have that respect for someone who's dragging so many innocent lives with him, people who have nothing to do with this man's personal problems.
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
This is a nightmare scenario that has sometimes been speculated upon after the cockpit-access safeguards were put into place after 911. Lubitz was obviously aware of the fact that he would have a minimum of 8 minutes during which there were fail-safe contingencies in place to ensure that no one would be able to access the cockpit after it was discovered that the cockpit door was locked and that he wasn't going to open it. Since they were flying at 38K feet when the captain left the cockpit, it was a simple matter for Lubitz to adjust the autopilot to descend to sea level at a rate of 3500 feet/minute. Since the crash site was a little over 6,000 feet above sea level, it would have taken approximately 9 minutes to go from their cruising altitude to a collision with terrain. Although there were time-delayed abilities for the lock to be overriden (in the event of an incapacitated crew for instance) by the lead flight attendant, those delays (along with the time that the captain was in the lavatory) would have been more than enough time for the descent in question to be completed and the resulting collision with the terrain manifested.
Besides the obvious tragedy that this represents and the concerns, thoughts and prayers for family and friends of the victims, the questions as to "why?" and "how can this be prevented in the future?" will undoubtedly be a serious area of consideration for the FAA and the airline safety industry going forward. Frankly, I'm not sure what the answer is because to backtrack too far would enhance the ability of terrorists to gain cockpit access.....something nobody wants. It's a serious dichotomy which, in this case, has led to a terrible tragedy and senseless loss of life. If the guy wanted to kill himself, why did he so flippantly disregard the lives of those for whom there was no choice but to die what was unquestionably a terrifying death by his hand? I'm not sure we'll ever know.
My hope would be that ground-proximity warning systems could be further developed with a computer override that would simply not allow a plane to be flown into terrain in this manner. The dilemma with this idea is that the plane needs to fly into terrain in order to land safely so how to differentiate between a landing attempt and an uncontrolled descent into terrain (which, by the way, is now the #3 cause of airplane accidents in general) will be a challenge. Hopefully, it's one that the aviation community is up to solving because this cannot be allowed to happen again under any circumstances.
My thoughts go out to those who grieve for the loss of their friends and loved ones. :crying:
Besides the obvious tragedy that this represents and the concerns, thoughts and prayers for family and friends of the victims, the questions as to "why?" and "how can this be prevented in the future?" will undoubtedly be a serious area of consideration for the FAA and the airline safety industry going forward. Frankly, I'm not sure what the answer is because to backtrack too far would enhance the ability of terrorists to gain cockpit access.....something nobody wants. It's a serious dichotomy which, in this case, has led to a terrible tragedy and senseless loss of life. If the guy wanted to kill himself, why did he so flippantly disregard the lives of those for whom there was no choice but to die what was unquestionably a terrifying death by his hand? I'm not sure we'll ever know.
My hope would be that ground-proximity warning systems could be further developed with a computer override that would simply not allow a plane to be flown into terrain in this manner. The dilemma with this idea is that the plane needs to fly into terrain in order to land safely so how to differentiate between a landing attempt and an uncontrolled descent into terrain (which, by the way, is now the #3 cause of airplane accidents in general) will be a challenge. Hopefully, it's one that the aviation community is up to solving because this cannot be allowed to happen again under any circumstances.
My thoughts go out to those who grieve for the loss of their friends and loved ones. :crying:
From what I understand, this scenario couldn't have happened or at least would have been more difficult on U.S. flights. FAA regulation is that there always has to be 2 crew members in the cockpit when one steps out, whether it be the flight engineer or a flight attendant. Lufthansa doesn't/didn't have that same policy.
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
This is not an FAA regulation to the best of my knowledge. If you've flown commercially in the US, you'll notice that whenever one of the flight officers leaves the cockpit, a flight attendant will block access to the front galley area (usually with a beverage cart in the way) until the officer returns to the flight deck. Most commercial flights only have 2 flight officers anyway and commuter flights only have one flight attendant so it would be impossible to block access to the flight deck and also be seated in the cockpit at the same time. If you have documentation to the contrary, I'll be glad to admit my error but I personally am not aware of this requirement (I am a private pilot so commercial regs are not my forte). Still, as you stated, even if it were in place, it wouldn't preclude the same scenario that just occurred with the Germanwings flight.
You're right. It's not an FAA reg but a rule among most if not all U.S. airlines with the foodcart blocking the open door being an exception.
Like you said, what a nightmare scenario. To keep the bad guys out, you're also assuring a bad guy is secure inside.
Like you said, what a nightmare scenario. To keep the bad guys out, you're also assuring a bad guy is secure inside.
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
A computer-controlled drone has already taken off and landed on an aircraft carrier at sea. Right now a driverless car is driving itself across the United States.
I don't know how far fetched this is but how about a computer-controlled commercial airline flight - from takeoff to landing with both pilots having to be at the controls to override it in the case of emergencies? Talk about a kick back job right?
I don't know how far fetched this is but how about a computer-controlled commercial airline flight - from takeoff to landing with both pilots having to be at the controls to override it in the case of emergencies? Talk about a kick back job right?
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
This has been talked about for quite some time. The first major obstacle is expense....labor costs for the airlines would virtually double for redundant flight crews. Unfortunately, that issue alone is probably a deal-killer. The airlines operate in a morbid world of "acceptable casualty rates" per dollar spent on safety concerns like aircraft maintenance and security measures. The fact of the matter is that, despite the spectacular headlines that are created when something like Flight 9525 occurs, the odds of dying in an airliner accident are about 1 in 3.5 million....safer than taking a shower right in your own bathroom. Truth is, the airlines could spend outrageous sums of money on maintenance to virtually eliminate structural or mechanical reasons as causes for any accident. However, the resulting percentage of lives that would be saved as a result are not deemed to be worth the extra monetary cost that would be involved in order to do so. Sad but a very true and grim reality.
Also, a correction of an earlier statement I made....I said that "uncontrolled descent into terrain" was the #3 cause of all airplane accidents and I should have said "controlled descent into terrain" instead. Big difference....my bad.
Co-Pilot in Germanwings Crash Hid Medical Condition From Employer, Prosecutors Say
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/world/europe/germanwings-crash-andreas-lubitz.html
The guy had decided to suicide himself by crashing the plane, not giving a single fuck about the passengers he'd kill.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/world/europe/germanwings-crash-andreas-lubitz.html
The guy had decided to suicide himself by crashing the plane, not giving a single fuck about the passengers he'd kill.
That's what mentaloids do.
bahodeme
Closed Account
Jagger is right in regard to The airlines operate in a morbid world of "acceptable casualty rates" per dollar spent on safety concerns like aircraft maintenance and security measures measure of the Airline Industry. When the 747s had an issue with door locks the airlines fought the recommendations for changing them. It was the same for Doppler radar, reinforcing cargo containers, deicing procedures, etc. If I remember correctly, an Actuary sets the cost of an adult at approx. 500,000 U.S. dollars. That is the amount the insurance company will pay the airline. So if the cost of the retrofit or procedure cost more then the airline will choose not to do it unless it will also affect tickets sales. If there are several crashes due to an issue then they are more willing to change.
As far as the suicide part is concerned, I believe some do not want it to look like a suicide, especially if they have families. Most life insurance do not cover suicides but if it was an accident then they will pay. I doubt if the passengers or that the way investigations are carried will prove otherwise ever crossed their minds. If you are a pilot, bus driver, cruise captain, etc. one of your main thoughts is passenger safety.
As far as the suicide part is concerned, I believe some do not want it to look like a suicide, especially if they have families. Most life insurance do not cover suicides but if it was an accident then they will pay. I doubt if the passengers or that the way investigations are carried will prove otherwise ever crossed their minds. If you are a pilot, bus driver, cruise captain, etc. one of your main thoughts is passenger safety.
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
Do not exist.
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Actually, one way that this could possibly be achieved is to have the ground-proximity warning software include an airspeed override to help differentiate between a landing approach and a controlled descent into terrain. Flight 9525 impacted the terrain at a speed of 440 knots....about 500 miles/hour! This aircraft has an approach speed of about 140 knots....quite a difference to say the least. Perhaps the computer could override a descent that was approaching terrain at, oh let's say anything greater than 30% over the normal approach speed by adjusting the vertical speed to an angle of attack that was steep enough to avoid the oncoming terrain yet shallow enough to avoid a stall. Not sure if this is a practical solution but it sure makes sense to me. Somehow, airplanes need to be smart enough not to fly into mountains on purpose.
A torn up doctors note that was piece back together that had the doctor's concern on the co-pilot mental health was found in his home.
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
To: COUNTrecount
BlissTabitha His family lived in Marseilles? That's the hotbed of radical Islam in EU..in fact, it's the home office! Family of Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz have left Marseille, French prosecutor says Demographics of Bremen and
Police closed first IS/ISIS/ISIL Mosque in Bremen, Germany
wiki: Many inhabitants of Derendorf are immigrants from Turkey, and the borough houses the central mosque of the Muslims in Düsseldorf. (destination?)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3272302/posts
http://www.breakingnews.com/item/2015/03/26/family-of-germanwings-co-pilot-andreas-lubitz-have/
Supafly
Retired Mod
To: COUNTrecount
Demographics of Bremen and
Police closed first IS/ISIS/ISIL Mosque in Bremen, Germany
wiki: Many inhabitants of Derendorf are immigrants from Turkey, and the borough houses the central mosque of the Muslims in Düsseldorf. (destination?)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3272302/posts
http://www.breakingnews.com/item/2015/03/26/family-of-germanwings-co-pilot-andreas-lubitz-have/
Will, I try to say this as calm as possible, but PLEASE take your tie reflecting on this post you wrote. It has to be a muslim, because he cashed a plane? You are showing exactly the islamophobia that is spread so far over our western hemisphere. Can you grasp the concept that unstable minds exist in any religious background? And IF the man was muslim, it really does not chanhge that much.
Back to the situation in the airtraffic business. I watched this documentary about the Boeing Dreamliner
That is something on the rise, I think, and the Airbus that crashed had a history of a LOT of down time, due to technical recuriong problems. The company tried to ride it out as lowcost as possible.
And I have a friend whose daughter has recently changed jobs from Airbus to Lufthansa. The Germanwings company is the daughter of the Lufthansa, their try on making massive cost cuts, because their company is very "oldschool". Very german.
Germanwings had very bad rep from the start, and there were massive strikes in the early months of 2015, because the personell gets paid so bad.
So there is a lot of cause for people to get mad about their situation, and it's not as easy as to just pick at religious beliefs.
