General Motors - Its time has past

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
I normally don't rant, but...

I supported the GM bailout. I've owned GM cars. I keep them for about 5 years and then they start to have problems and I replace them.

My last two GM cars have cost me a few thousand dollars because of quality issues. The latest is a transmission failing at 37,000 miles. It is theoretically under warranty. This warranty covers a car rental for 5 days. The dealership will not look at the car for 3 days and wants to charge me $165 to diagnose it and tells me that it may not be covered under warranty after all.

I'm done with these guys. They may crappy products, charge top dollar, and deliver poor service. I'm sure they will go out of business and candidly, I hope they do.

Our other cars that are a 1999 Honda and a 2000 Nissan that have over 150K miles each are running find with no more than normal maintenance.

Unbelievable.

Although I didn't buy into the IPO, I too wanted to see GM turn itself around - and in large part, it has (at least financially - other than the European operations, it's doing quite well financially). And even though I haven't bought a domestic brand in a very long time (the only American brand I own is an old Chevy pickup truck that I used as a tow vehicle for my race car and an antique Chevy truck that my *** gave me), I'd like to see Ford (especially), GM and even Chrysler do well in the market. My suggestion for you is to get a subscription to Consumer Reports before selecting another vehicle. The facts (from both JD Power and CR) indicate that the average car built in 2012 will have fewer initial and longer term problems than the average car built in 2011, and the average 2011 car has fewer problems than the one built in 2010... so on and so forth. But within each brand, and within each model within the brands, different cars will display certain common problems year to year. Some years are good and some years are bad, for even the same model. As for cars from the old days... it's kind of like the saying, "the older I get, the faster I was." What that means is, people tend to be nostalgic, and remember the things from years past as being better than they actually were. The truth is, cars tend to last much longer now, with fewer initial and longer term problems than years ago. But what has also changed is that with all of the safety and electronic features these days, cars now are much more difficult and expensive to work on than before. I know a good deal about engines and cars, but even I find it difficult to do anything more than the simplest tasks these days. I couldn't even change the spark plugs on my WRX last year. Luckily :)brick:), it was time to change the timing belt and hoses too, so I had the plugs changed along with that "normal maintenance" (good bye, $800). But in general, cars now tend to last much longer than they used to. The average age of the cars on American highways now is 10.8 years. As far as I know, that is an all time record high.

I love cars. Other than a pretty woman, there's nothing that gets my attention faster than a svelte, clean, high performance car. And I've been lucky enough to work in and around the automotive industry for about the past 20 years. But one thing is true, even with me, people will often offer up whatever brand that is their favorite. The factual data may or may not show that brand to be all that reliable. And even reliable brands may have unreliable vehicles within the ****** in certain years. Lexus and Acura tend to always be near the top when it comes to reliability. Yet I've never owned either brand. They just don't do anything for me. But they do tend to make very good cars. Some GM vehicles usually get very good quality marks too though - Buick in particular. And some of the cars mentioned here as being stellar really aren't. Some of them (by data from quality surveys) have less than stellar initial quality and longer term service records - and they can be incredibly expensive to work on and acquire parts for. But you might get lucky. I had a Jaguar XJS that should have been a lemon, but I got great service from that car. I got lucky. I had a Porsche 944 S2 that should have been a decent car and it was one of the biggest lemons I have ever owned - and it nearly broke me to get it fixed... just so that I could sell it. So lightning can strike, but typically, the data is a good guide.

So stick with Consumer Reports and keep an eye on the annual JD Power reports. Use that fact based data, and not anecdotal stories from buddies or pals. It really will prove useful. Really. :hatsoff:
 
Buy German.

VW, Audi, Mercedes and BMW.

Best cars on the planet.....and I'm from Jersey!

Every American car I owned went to **** after 50K miles.

My VW and Audi are solid as a rock.

BMW and Mercs made after 2001 are not of the same quality than their predecessors.
The best mercedes were the w126 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W126 and the w140 s class http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W140
The best BMW were the 7 series of these years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_E23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_E32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_7_Series_(E38)
Personally the best audi on the market is the A8 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_a8 from the first and the second generation which can be bought on the second hand market. The newer A8 is ugly.
Regarding Americans car you are wrong. Cadillac Northstar v8 engine ever heard of it? What bout American flagship cars like the cadillac 60 special http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Sixty_Special or the fleetwood brougham http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Fleetwood_Brougham or the fleetwood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Fleetwood, Cadillac was and is one of the best luxury brands that sold and sells cars in the US. A worthy mention to the lincoln town car as well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Town_Car
 
Mikexmoran, if you are having trouble with this, PM me and I'll give you some GM advice. I left the company (GM) about 6 months ago (thank fuck, to pursue the career I want), and though I am in Canada, some policies should be the same. I see a lot of flaws in what they told you. That being said, GM Canada and GM US are supposedly separate companies now, so my information could be incorrect. But if you want some friendly, possibly helpful, advice, shoot me a message :)
 

Facetious

Moderated
GM's Electromotive still manufactures the best locomotives in the world, that's something we can be proud of...
Well, not so fast...it's too bad the suits at GM are giving away ... :uhem: (selling it off the record actually) their latest technology to the PRC :mad::ak47:


Anything for a Million $ or two, three or four these days, assholes!
 
Do you mean in terms of craftsmanship? The vehicles themselves are now quite superior by most comparisons, no?

yes, I mean craftsmanship. The vehicles themselves made by mercedes and bmw today are fugly and far less durable so therefore far inferior. Ask any serious mechanic the older 7 series and s classes are all about and he will tell you.
 
so true :yesyes: but that is why I prefer something vintage to something new and unreliable

agreed. i prefer to own vehicles that i can fix myself. what's sad in my opinion with modern vehicles is that many of them are actually very well built and designed from a mechanical aspect and their poor reliability and their failures are often caused by the over engineered and convoluted computer management systems that tie into everything. that many critical wire harnesses, sensors and interconnected systems leaves so much room for catastrophic failure that it's amazing they ever worked to begin with.
 
The New Cadillac ATS is great example what GM can build. I have not read the reviews yet, but it comes out this summer, on paper it looks very competitive in the entry luxury class. My 2008 Cadillac CTS was great car and very class competitive

http://www.cadillac.com/ats-compact-car.html

one of the best cars build by gm was the last generation of seville made from 1998 till 2004 and of course the 67-70 eldorado
http://www.examiner.com/article/opi...itten-after-roadtesting-the-car-new-continued
 
The New Cadillac ATS is great example what GM can build. I have not read the reviews yet, but it comes out this summer, on paper it looks very competitive in the entry luxury class. My 2008 Cadillac CTS was great car and very class competitive

http://www.cadillac.com/ats-compact-car.html

unfortunately what the CAN build and what they USUALLY build are two very different things...
 
I used to be a Chevy guy. I will never own one again, unless it's an old muscle car. I must say the worst car we've ever owned was a VW Jetta. Biggest piece of crap EVER! The germans do NOT know what they are doing. Of course Ford had the warranty issue with the 6.0L Power Strokes. Those are the most defective diesels ever sold, and Ford wouldn't warranty them since they were made by International. International wouldn't warranty them since you aren't their customer, Ford is. Toyota had the accelerator problem, which they knew about, didn't do anything about, then finally had to admit once the government did an investigation. I think that company should have been wiped off the face of the earth for their reckless disregard for human life. Of course Lexus is an EXTREMELY expensive Toyota. The Brits made some great machines during WWII, but Range Rovers and Jaguars are hunks of crap. I've had serious problems with Jeeps and Pontiacs as well as Chevy and Dodge. All vehicles have thousands of componants which are subject to weather, wear, fatigue and failure. No matter what brand of vehicle you buy, it will break down. Just get one that you like.

And it's spelled ******, not past
 
The quality in recent gm products has been lack luster. Or as car and driver says their interiors look like something you would find at k-mart. I have had gm's in the past but they don't amount to any ford or toyota I have owned. The new Camaro pretty much saved them being that it is the most played out car. And if you have ridden in one, you would know how cheaply they are built. There trucks will never compare to a ford. Especially there 3/4-1ton trucks that still have ifs on them. Crappy products deserve crappy sales.
 
I had a 88 Cavalier and a 94 Geo Prism. They would still probably be still around if they weren't in an accident that BOTH weren't my fault.

ive only had bad ford experiences.

1994 aerostar.... trans fell apart w/ good up keep...... 97 taurus station wagon... engine fell out.... 2007 escape.... lemon with the door.... 2004 taurs... still running two accidents, but is still falling apart and massive upkeep.

Unfortunately, any more pretty much all cars are crap. The days of making good cars that last and most people could afford have ****** decades ago.
Agreed.... They want you buy new cars every 5 years or so.

Love my full-size Chevy Truck and will probably buy another one.

Was looking at the silverados.... they are awsome.
 

Supafly

Logged Off 4 Freedom of Speech Restrictions
Bronze Member
yes, I mean craftsmanship. The vehicles themselves made by mercedes and bmw today are fugly and far less durable so therefore far inferior. Ask any serious mechanic the older 7 series and s classes are all about and he will tell you.

Absolutely. My doctor, who was a worker at Mercedes before he made the grade and became a doctor, says, he prefers older models, because he can repair anything without having to computer-diagnose stuff, which is a pain in the ass. Plus cars can be hacked these days, there are phone apps that can record the car key remote sign and then play it back when the owner is around the corner.
 
Absolutely. My doctor, who was a worker at Mercedes before he made the grade and became a doctor, says, he prefers older models, because he can repair anything without having to computer-diagnose stuff, which is a pain in the ass. Plus cars can be hacked these days, there are phone apps that can record the car key remote sign and then play it back when the owner is around the corner.

the design are also nicer and the durability almost eternal, also another big advantage with mercedes is that they have all the reproduction and other type of spare parts for cars made from the 30's till today
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
I had a brief conversation with an old pal yesterday and we were talking about GM and its past and present problems. Over the years, we've both worked for automotive suppliers or various car companies. He bought into the GM IPO (I didn't), and he's not happy with the stock's performance from the IPO to date. The facts and data show that GM's overall quality rankings are actually quite good now, relative to Ford, Chrysler and even many of the foreign transplants. So what's the problem? Why isn't the stock performing better? IMO (and later his... the more we talked about it), the European operations are the biggest drag on the financials - same with Ford. Also, even though it's been slimmed down since the bankruptcy, GM is still a huge, unwieldy, bureaucratic organization. And the growth in China, and other parts of Asia, isn't strong enough to make up for Europe. They should have (IMO) sold Opel. I don't see any signs that Opel can be turned around any time soon. It's been a mess forever. We both agreed that GM had too many brands in 2008-09, and had to **** some of them (because they overlapped too much with other GM brands). But going back in time, I think the one GM brand that they really made the biggest mess of was Saturn. When that brand was first introduced, they had one of the most loyal customer bases in the automotive industry. At its height, Saturn was like the Apple Computer of car brands. People would flock to Spring Hill, TN and watch their Saturns being built. It was a unique brand and started off with very good quality (relative to most other GM brands at that time). Many non-industry people don't realize it, but what ****** Saturn was all of the infighting that took place with other GM divisions (specifically, Chevrolet and Pontiac). There were as many people at other GM divisions that wanted to cripple Saturn as at Toyota or Honda - and that's pitiful. So poor old Saturn started off being like Apple Computer and ended up being run more like Microsoft. And now, after being turned into just another vanilla "badge brand" (devoid of any unique qualities), Saturn is dead. IMO, the Saturn fanbois were more ****** off than died out. I think that was a big mistake by GM.
 
Funny - My car is still in the freakin' Chevy Dealership and the bozos haven't even looked at the car.

Yeah, I'll buy another GM soon.
 
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