jadelicious
Banned
Sorry to hear Harley. It sounds pretty shady to me. I think there are too many situations where photographers don't really explain what their intentions are before they shoot a model.
Fucked Over
- Thread starter Harley Spencer
- Start date
Harley Spencer
Official Checked Star Member
They actually aren't the photographers. Tom considers himself, basically, to be the creative director. He stands around in the background while the models and photographers are shooting, yelling, "That's right, yeah! Make her cum! Harder, harder! Come on, faster!" He wines and dines the girls. He sleeps with as many of the models as he can. Marci is the makeup artist.
Harley Spencer
Official Checked Star Member
And also, they did explain what their intentions were. They just lied about it and manipulated me and dozens of other people. Ulterior motives.
Clayrabeau
Official Checked Star Member
First off, WOW, what a shitty website. It looks like someone went a little crazy with Flash photo plug ins.
So, you git ripped off? That sucks. I'm sorry it happened to you, sweety. This pretty much leaves you with two options:
1. You can file a case against them in small claims court. Make sure you screen capture EVERYTHING so they can't get rid of the evidence, and then go to your local courthouse and sue the pants off them for return of the product and restitution.
2. You can chalk it up to a bad decision and move forward, resolving never to do work without pay up front aver again. It cost you $750 to learn that and get an asshole out of your life. Of course, this doesn't mean you stay quiet! Make EVERYONE aware of what kind of shadiness they're up to. Give them $750 in free advertising, but do it on sites like Model Mayhem, OMP, GreenMartini, and anywhere else models network. Post a blog that makes it easy for anyone googling the operation to find out that they're scammers, and make sure you mention it to every model or photographer you come in contact with. I think we all get scammed at least once, and it has nothing to do with being dumb. It just happens. Everything could check out and it could still turn out to be BS after the fact. If you don't want to go to court, this is about all you can do.I know I'll keep it in mind next time I'm on the East Coast, so thank you.
@Roald: Do you pay immediately after a shoot? That's "up front" in my book.
So, you git ripped off? That sucks. I'm sorry it happened to you, sweety. This pretty much leaves you with two options:
1. You can file a case against them in small claims court. Make sure you screen capture EVERYTHING so they can't get rid of the evidence, and then go to your local courthouse and sue the pants off them for return of the product and restitution.
2. You can chalk it up to a bad decision and move forward, resolving never to do work without pay up front aver again. It cost you $750 to learn that and get an asshole out of your life. Of course, this doesn't mean you stay quiet! Make EVERYONE aware of what kind of shadiness they're up to. Give them $750 in free advertising, but do it on sites like Model Mayhem, OMP, GreenMartini, and anywhere else models network. Post a blog that makes it easy for anyone googling the operation to find out that they're scammers, and make sure you mention it to every model or photographer you come in contact with. I think we all get scammed at least once, and it has nothing to do with being dumb. It just happens. Everything could check out and it could still turn out to be BS after the fact. If you don't want to go to court, this is about all you can do.I know I'll keep it in mind next time I'm on the East Coast, so thank you.
@Roald: Do you pay immediately after a shoot? That's "up front" in my book.
Harley Spencer
Official Checked Star Member
Oh they owe me more than $750. Depending on how the shoots are paid (per set, per day), I'd either be owed $6,750 (per shoot) or $2,250 (per day). Of course if we'd like to factor in the photos that they stole without my permission or the photographer's permission, i.e. photos that had nothing to with them, they used solely for my website or other purposes and Tom and Marci had nothing to do with it, I could add another $1,000.
Anyway, thanks for your support! I haven't decided yet whether I want to look into taking this to court or getting a lawyer. I might look around online and in my area for free consultations to see if I have a case, what could be done for me, if it would be more hassle than what it's worth, if I would need to pay any sort of fees for a lawyer, etc. Otherwise, you're right, making other people aware of these guys being such douchebags is about the best thing I can do.
Harley, I hope you read this before you do anything. Don't let the fact that you haven't taken anyone to court discourage you. I don't know what it's like in the Sates but a smalls claims court will probably be the case.
However, I don't believe you need to take ANYONE to court to get your money. Has anyone read the Art Of War? I believe this statement is necessary here:
"Therefore One hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the most skillful. Seizing the enemy without fighting is the most skillful.
War is of vital importance to the state and should not be engaged carelessly".
The first step? Threaten them. Do your homework and find everything you can to charge them with and PROVE that you can..also give them one last chance to pay up, tell them they can save themselves a lot of money and time if they do. But give them a deadline.
Chances are high you wil get your money...and you won't have to go to court...win-win.
Edit: Oh, what's this? They created a fake FB account of you? Make sure you ask for a lot of money.
Harley Spencer
Official Checked Star Member
I have been thinking of emailing them and asking them once more to pay up. That will take a little more research on my part, but it might be worth a shot.
I reported the fake facebook account yesterday to facebook and today when I looked, I saw that facebook removed their account. I wish I would've taken a screen shot of it.
Clayrabeau
Official Checked Star Member
Judging from the site these people managed to put up, my guess would be that they don't have the money to pay out and Harley will never see it without a court order. Even then, they can always default or declare bankruptcy. The fact that they were dumb enough to try and use Facebook to promote it shows that they really have no clue what they're doing or how to make money. It's so amateur that it's laughable. If you want to REALLY hurt them, contact anyone who pays to advertise on their site and let them know what's up. These idiots are the kind who think that all you have to do is put a site on the web and it will magically make money. It hasn't worked yet, which is the most likely reason they haven't paid: They don't have it. Other things I noticed are that they have the domain name registered until 2021, and they have no 2257 info posted. Threaten to report the lack of 2257 info, and if you do sue, use the fact that they registered for an extended period of time to your advantage (shows that they have every intention of continuing to do business). Also, NJ has some good entertainment labor laws in place (all agents MUST be licensed, post a $5000 bond, and use their license number in all public documents for example), so you may have an easier time of it than you think.
Correct !!:hatsoff::hatsoff::hatsoff:
Yes and no. Statutes vary from state to state.
http://www.modelresource.ca/Model101/AgencyModelContract.shtml
www.printablecontracts.com/Photography_Contract.php
If they dont sign, dont work !
www.printablecontracts.com/Photography_Contract.php
If they dont sign, dont work !
Why not exactly upfront, an adult performer should always ask for physical cash at the time right before the shoot happens. The only exceptions in this industry would be for the very top companies and even then most of them in most situations in this industry I would demand cash at the time of service baring being a big time contract girl for a large studio I was under contract under or something like that.
I would almost say that in this industry asking for things to be done this way has almost become a cardinal rule of the profession.
If you can't get them to pay up in this, at least it can be an important lesson for the future.
Lolita_Borgia
Official Checked Star Member
That is really fucked up & I completely agree with Clayrabeau on point 2. It sounds as if they had their contract worded quite well & had no intention of using that website name & thus no intention of paying you... But if they are posting false identities of you they can be charged with 'cyber-stalking' ( takes a minimum of 3 seperate events in Australia) & thats a criminal charge which is a nice nasty to have on their record! But court generally only has one winner, the lawyers, it costs an arm & a leg, it is a stressful & time consuming process & you have to ask yourself 'is it worth it'? Do as Clayrabeau suggests get them on Model Mayhem etc & make it so damn hard for them to fuck anyone else over that you are the one that fucks up their chances of ever succeeding & be proud of it!!!!
All I can say is CUNTS!!!!
All I can say is CUNTS!!!!
I know that you all seem to think this is open and shut but it is not. There are a lot of defenses that the photographer can use and one of them is that the photos posted on the website were a mix up, especially since they used a different name.
Small claims can be an option but as I said earlier if the people are judgment proof you are gonna become very frustrated. The best thing to do at this juncture is to consult an attorney in your area and have the attorney to contact them. They will more than likely remove the photos . If they do not, then you have built a safeguard against them claiming that they were unaware of the photos and that it was a mistake. I think you can prevail but it is gonna take a little effort.
Small claims can be an option but as I said earlier if the people are judgment proof you are gonna become very frustrated. The best thing to do at this juncture is to consult an attorney in your area and have the attorney to contact them. They will more than likely remove the photos . If they do not, then you have built a safeguard against them claiming that they were unaware of the photos and that it was a mistake. I think you can prevail but it is gonna take a little effort.
Briana Lee
Official Checked Star Member
Wow babe, I'm so sorry that this has happened to you. I know what it feels like to be completely screwed over by someone you trust. It happened to me only a few months ago and I'm far from getting over it.
Unfortunately in this business there are always people out there looking to screw you over so you've gotta check & double check every piece of paperwork that you sign. Even if you've known the people you're dealing with for years or only weeks, believe me it makes no difference to these scum bags.
It's gonna be catch 22 trying to recover what's owed to you. You've gotta hire a good lawyer or theirs will run rings round you, but by the time you've paid them You Might not even be able to recover enough to pay them so it would all be for nothing. I was advised that it would cost me around $20k to take my case to court but I would have to come up with the money before it all went ahead and as I was left with nothing after what happened it was never an option.
If you want my advice I think you gotta put it down as a lesson learnt and move on. BUT report the fuck out of them where you can. If they are using pics of you that they don't own the rights to without your permission, then DMCA them. If they ignore it send the notice to their hosting site & registrar. Also report the sites to Google and Yahoo and they will remove them from their search listings. Also report them to any other sites they may be advertising on.
And make sure you get the word out about them as well. Post it everywhere you can, ask other models to post about it on their Facebook, Twitter and blogs. Make it so that as many people as possible know about these scumbags!!
Unfortunately in this business there are always people out there looking to screw you over so you've gotta check & double check every piece of paperwork that you sign. Even if you've known the people you're dealing with for years or only weeks, believe me it makes no difference to these scum bags.
It's gonna be catch 22 trying to recover what's owed to you. You've gotta hire a good lawyer or theirs will run rings round you, but by the time you've paid them You Might not even be able to recover enough to pay them so it would all be for nothing. I was advised that it would cost me around $20k to take my case to court but I would have to come up with the money before it all went ahead and as I was left with nothing after what happened it was never an option.
If you want my advice I think you gotta put it down as a lesson learnt and move on. BUT report the fuck out of them where you can. If they are using pics of you that they don't own the rights to without your permission, then DMCA them. If they ignore it send the notice to their hosting site & registrar. Also report the sites to Google and Yahoo and they will remove them from their search listings. Also report them to any other sites they may be advertising on.
And make sure you get the word out about them as well. Post it everywhere you can, ask other models to post about it on their Facebook, Twitter and blogs. Make it so that as many people as possible know about these scumbags!!
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