From the "Kept us "safe" files: Accused Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab trained by ex-Gitmo

[sdj374]

Re: Or maybe ...

Sovereign leaders don't enlist our help, they are bribed or sometimes blackmailed by the U.S. government to "enlist" our help becoz the U.S.government pays them to become imperialist puppets to thwart and prevent real democracy, freedom, self-determination, sovereignty and justice from taking root. FYI this group of extremists have leaders who were well trained, armed, funded and schooled by the CIA so that they could keep Russia from taking root in Arab lands. Now these same groups that were trained by the CIA are telling Uncle Sam to GTFO and leave them alone or else just like they showed Russia, France, England and now the U.S.

These rival group of Muslims are drug lords that don't like these CIA-trained Muslim extremists is due to envy since they're pissed that the U.S. isn't hiring them, training them, arming and giving them a ton of money to create instability and civil wars so they can have more power and control to practice their craft

Greatest. Post. Ever. :hatsoff:

Even better than the Pentaverate conspiracy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPMS6tGOACo

 

[Member2019]

Re: Or maybe ...

Before Obama and Bush Jr., there was Reagan and Bush Sr. who while they were in the White House, they gave the CIA the green light to arm, train and fund Al Queda so now their chickens are coming home to roost

And even worse, once their war (our proxy war) was over, we left them to fend for themselves, instead of helping them.

I love Charlie Wilson's War because it brought to light that the average Afghanistan citizen's age was 18 at the end, and we fucked up.

But just remember ... there was another country involved with that conflict, and they killed all the mothers and fathers, leaving many kids who weren't even 10 years old yet to run the country as teenagers! Not the US.

How come people don't recognize the US is not always solely at fault? People just believe we just "clean up" everyone's mess, and no matter what we do, we lose. And you wonder why we get involved?

Imagine if we were involved in Africa right now? The Chinese can do what they wish, but we can't. The Chinese are just there for the resources, just like the British and French prior. We? We stupid Americans actually try to do it differently ... and we catch more hell because of it.

Funny how that works. I'm sure a 100% true and free press sure makes that difference too. I'd like to see other nations deal with such. Will never forget Putin in late 2001 on that.

 

[jasonk282]

Re: Or maybe ...

And even worse, once their war (our proxy war) was over, we left them to fend for themselves, instead of helping them.

I love Charlie Wilson's War because it brought to light that the average Afghanistan citizen's age was 18 at the end, and we fucked up.

But just remember ... there was another country involved with that conflict, and they killed all the mothers and fathers, leaving many kids who weren't even 10 years old yet to run the country as teenagers! Not the US.

How come people don't recognize the US is not always solely at fault? People just believe we just "clean up" everyone's mess, and no matter what we do, we lose. And you wonder why we get involved?

Imagine if we were involved in Africa right now? The Chinese can do what they wish, but we can't. The Chinese are just there for the resources, just like the British and French prior. We? We stupid Americans actually try to do it differently ... and we catch more hell because of it.

Funny how that works. I'm sure a 100% true and free press sure makes that difference too. I'd like to see other nations deal with such. Will never forget Putin in late 2001 on that.

Funny how quickly people forget that the USSR was the invading force spreading Communism by defending the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan.

It is also amazing at how much the Muslam Mujahideen could not stand America but took our help and weapons to drive out the Soviets and use our weapons to defeat the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan.

 

[Hot Mega]

Re: Or maybe ...

Funny how quickly people forget that the USSR was the invading force spreading Communism by defending the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan.

It is also amazing at how much the Muslam Mujahideen could not stand America but took our help and weapons to drive out the Soviets and use our weapons to defeat the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan.

But what's the relevance to our involvement in Afghanistan today? We aren't there per se to support some movement. We are there because a regime stood in our way in bringing a criminal cabal to justice.

 

[Legzman]

Oh great, another point that some people will use to attack Obama because he wanted to close Guantanamo.

psh, like we need any more reason to bash Obama...

 

[Member2019]

Re: Or maybe ...

Funny how quickly people forget that the USSR was the invading force spreading Communism by defending the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan.

And how does one choose sides in that? Islamic Law v. Single Party Dictatorship? And for those that think the Soviets were "equal opportunity" should visit some of their own persecutions, even post-Stallin.

It is also amazing at how much the Muslam Mujahideen could not stand America but took our help and weapons to drive out the Soviets and use our weapons to defeat the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan.

And yet they were fed from Pakistan and Saudia Arabia, with the latter footing as much bill as the US. And we all know who is tied to Saudia Arabia, and what he thought of Saudia Arabia after they chose the US to defend them after Saddam invaded Kuwait.

The rest is history.

Would Osama had still targeted the US had it not gotten involved in Afghanistan and Iraq? Probably. There would be less support for him by some, but he'd still be around. But the question will always remain ...

Why do people solely blame the US for everything?

But what's the relevance to our involvement in Afghanistan today?

The fact that a great majority of parents died in the USSR invasion. What was left were a great majority of pre-teenage kids that, by the time of the end of the Soviet invasion, were teenagers without parents at all.

Just WTF do you think that breeds?

There is a huge difference between elders teaching Islamic Law and the kids trying to teach themselves. We've seen it again and again in Iraq as well (not that Iraq is the same, and you have Shia and other differences in various regions). The more elders and parents, the more ways to negotiate tolerances and peace. The kids, ugh.

We aren't there per se to support some movement. We are there because a regime stood in our way in bringing a criminal cabal to justice.

I'm not disagreeing. And I support Obama on this, especially since he has never waivered from his determination on Afghanistan, especially in stark contrast to Iraq (which I agree with him on as well).

The Russians massacred civilians in their invasion. Let's that get that straight. The reason you don't kill civilians is because you don't want kids to grow up without parents.

 

[Hot Mega]

Re: Or maybe ...

The fact that a great majority of parents died in the USSR invasion. What was left were a great majority of pre-teenage kids that, by the time of the end of the Soviet invasion, were teenagers without parents at all.

Just WTF do you think that breeds?

There is a huge difference between elders teaching Islamic Law and the kids trying to teach themselves. We've seen it again and again in Iraq as well (not that Iraq is the same, and you have Shia and other differences in various regions). The more elders and parents, the more ways to negotiate tolerances and peace. The kids, ugh.

I don't know what you want me to tell you. There very few corollaries to our involvement/mission in Afghanistan and the Russian involvement and mission there...besides geography, people and warfare.

We are assisting them in setting up a government since we took the one out that was there because they harbored and fought alongside fugitives of US justice.

Is warfare a costly, destructive, unfortunate enterprise which shatters lives? Absolutely! That's why you plan it and prosecute it like a robbery....establish what you expect to get beforehand, don't bite off more than you can fucking chew at one time or carry out, go establish dominance, get what you went there for and get the fuck out.:2 cents:

I'm not disagreeing. And I support Obama on this, especially since he has never waivered from his determination on Afghanistan, especially in stark contrast to Iraq (which I agree with him on as well).

"stark contrast"? What do you mean by that? If you mean he has wavered on Iraq in "stark contrast" to his resolution on Afghanistan...I don't see how since GWB set in motion the timeline for withdrawal from Iraq a month before he left office that doesn't vary all that much (if at all) from Obama's proposition. Why reinvent the wheel on Iraq with all the other issues on the table?

The Russians massacred civilians in their invasion. Let's that get that straight. The reason you don't kill civilians is because you don't want kids to grow up without parents.

:dunno: Uh, okay....

 

[Member2019]

Re: Or maybe ...

"stark contrast"? What do you mean by that? If you mean he has wavered on Iraq in "stark contrast" to his resolution on Afghanistan...

My poor use of words.

What I mean is that Obama has not waivered on what he's thought of Afghanistan and Iraq. I stated it incorrectly.