French parliament to consider burka ban

[georges]

"Frogs"???

Yeah those doggone frogs! Remind me a lot of the limeys, micks, krauts, dagos, gooks and spics (just quoting Walt Kowalski here mods so PLEASE don't ban me). They need to make those camel-jockeys conform to proper French society.

I am French, please moderate your tone when you speak about French people, insulting them wasn't needed. If Lafayette wasn't there, your country wouldn't exist and wouldn't have a constution. Better see what happens with the ghetto boys and the poor trash scum living in the usa who you want to give social helps, social security, food and shelter. They are mostly criminals involved in gang activities and they deserve nothing.
Also a person that doesn't want to integrate herself by completely abiding to the laws, customs and habits to the country where she migrated in, is cordially invited to go back to her country of origin. That is not negotiable and France doesn't have to be subjected to the burka or tchador law, France is not Iran or Afghanistan.

 

[max0rz]

I guess I don't follow your logic. So what Paris Hilton does when visiting UAE should be the yardstick on how Western Democracies should act?

I believe lovejoy is suggesting the old When in Rome, do as the Romans do thing.
Namely, if even Paris Hilton can understand that one should respect other peoples culture, then so should France.

Although, I think there is a difference here, in that France has seemingly become very secular. So this is more to do with that rather than disrespecting Muslims/Islam.

 

[mrtrebus]

I am French, please moderate your tone when you speak about French people, insulting them wasn't needed. If Lafayette wasn't there, your country wouldn't exist and wouldn't have a constution. Better see what happens with the ghetto boys and the poor trash scum living in the usa who you want to give social helps, social security, food and shelter. They are mostly criminals involved in gang activities and they deserve nothing.
Also a person that doesn't want to integrate herself by completely abiding to the laws, customs and habits to the country where she migrated in, is cordially invited to go back to her country of origin. That is not negotiable and France doesn't have to be subjected to the burka or tchador law, France is not Iran or Afghanistan.

intolerant frog!

 

[georges]

intolerant frog!

unrealistic rostbeef, I am not here to get insulted:nono:. I will be very clear with you. I am respectful and tolerant with people who are tolerant of the customs, laws and habits of my country and who don't discuss them and who abide to them plainly and fully with no exceptions. I am not going to be tolerant with people who act like fringe elements of society because of their intolerant and irrespectful behavior.

 

[mrtrebus]

unrealistic rostbeef, I am not here to get insulted:nono:. I will be very clear with you. I am respectful and tolerant with people who are tolerant of the customs, laws and habits of my country and who don't discuss them and who abide to them plainly and fully with no exceptions. I am not going to be tolerant with people who act like fringe elements of society because of their intolerant and irrespectful behavior.

Someone wearing an item of clothing that is a part of their religious faith is a fringe element?!? Get real!! What you are advocating is segregation. That is never a good thing!

You say people should "completely abiding to the laws, customs and habits to the country where. . .migrated" A country has a legal framework yes, but the customs & habits?!? That leads to cultural stagnation! But I'm sure you follow that rule, & only eat 100% french food, listen to 100% french music, watch 100% french movies etc.

 

[Jagger69]

"Frogs"???Yeah those doggone frogs! Remind me a lot of the limeys, micks, krauts, dagos, gooks and spics (just quoting Walt Kowalski here mods so PLEASE don't ban me). They need to make those camel-jockeys conform to proper French society.

I am French, please moderate your tone when you speak about French people, insulting them wasn't needed. If Lafayette wasn't there, your country wouldn't exist and wouldn't have a constution. Better see what happens with the ghetto boys and the poor trash scum living in the usa who you want to give social helps, social security, food and shelter. They are mostly criminals involved in gang activities and they deserve nothing.
Also a person that doesn't want to integrate herself by completely abiding to the laws, customs and habits to the country where she migrated in, is cordially invited to go back to her country of origin. That is not negotiable and France doesn't have to be subjected to the burka or tchador law, France is not Iran or Afghanistan.

No offense Georges, but go fuck yourself. My post was a sarcastic jab at Johnny's original post (did you even bother to read that???). That's why I respect you so much....you always do your homework before making one of your scintillating and thoughtful remarks. Then again, I guess you can never pass up an opportunity to strike out at the "ghetto boys" and their like so I don't know why I would be so surprised.

As far as your comments about Lafayette....I think that debt was more than repaid on the shores of Normandy.

Next time, read the fucking thread before you stupidly start typing some idiotic comment, OK?

 

[georges]

Someone wearing an item of clothing that is a part of their religious faith is a fringe element?!? Get real!! What you are advocating is segregation. That is never a good thing!

You say people should "completely abiding to the laws, customs and habits to the country where. . .migrated" A country has a legal framework yes, but the customs & habits?!? That leads to cultural stagnation! But I'm sure you follow that rule, & only eat 100% french food, listen to 100% french music, watch 100% french movies etc.

For your information, I listen to what ever music I like, whatever food I like but I chose the way of dressing that is sober and proper. Some way of dressing are going against the constitution, the burqa was never a part of the French constitution, so it is normal that is not allowed.

 

[D-rock]

I don't have a problem with people wearing religious items out in public. It's there choice, and it's not my job to tell them otherwise.

I might have a problem with people covering their faces in many public situations though when there is good reason for them to not be allowed to, like getting their driver's license. Also, if I walked around a lot of places with is essentially a mask, I might would draw rightful suspicion at least. Can you imagine somebody just waling into a bank after they put a mask on. Yet people that wear burkas do that pretty much use their religion to do that everywhere.

That doesn’t mean that I don't think the whole integration or whatever argument they are trying to spin because they don't like it is a bunch of stupid nonsense.

 

[Facial_King]

This is an interesting and complex problem, isn't it.

I don't have a firm opinion about it.

On the one hand, there's the driver's license issue and similar, legitimate concerns.

On the other hand, there's the Big Brother aspect, generally. Why must one show their face? Why does the government right to identify us trump our right to maintain our privacy, even in extreme ways, when we go to work or the grocery store?

This is not a simple problem.

 

[jibbijib]

They're scared of ninjas. So they may as well protect their own asses just in case some of these women are highly leathal

 

[TITS KING]

France is now highly multicultural. When a country is this much diversified then its definite certain issue arises. This is a very sensitive issue and totally France's internal issue.

The burka issue was at height when Taliban regime was in power in Afghanistan. While ladies still wear burkas there but over there the forces then declared it a culture and no ban on Burka. But the case in France is reverse and different.

 

[Dawn]

The problem with the burka is that 2 very significants civil rights are at clash: the liberty of religion and the equality of men and women.

So, the debate around the burka, for me, can be resumed in a single question:

Do religious liberties are more important than the equal rights to men and women; or do the equal rights of men and women are more important than the religious liberties?

Personnally, i consider the right to equality to be more important than the religious right so im supportive of the French governement law - and i would support it as well in my own country (Canada).

I'm all in favor to let people do what they want but... when it comes to organise the priorities in any kind of organised constitution/charter of liberty or else, it seems obvious that liberties have to be considered more important than others. So, in my mind, the equality of men and women is more important than the liberty of religion.

:2 cents:

 

[D-rock]

That doesn’t mean that I don't think the whole integration or whatever argument they are trying to spin because they don't like it is a bunch of stupid nonsense.

I should clarify this statement because it seemed confusing when I reread what I wrote just now. While I think that there are certain situations where the government has a right to demand they not wear it, I do think the argument of "integration" is pretty much nonsense and not a legitimate reason to ban it or restrict somebody freedom of expression and religion. Unless the women are being forced to wear them against their wishes I think they should get to wear them.

 

[calpoon]

Some way of dressing are going against the constitution, the burqa was never a part of the French constitution, so it is normal that is not allowed.

Now you got me interested. What exactly is the dress code stated in the French constitution? Does everyone have to wear a feather in their hat and one of those frilly lace neck scarves?:rofl:

I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anything about jeans and a t-shirt, or cowboy boots, and crotchless panties... shouldn't they ban those as well?

 

[Johan]

One thing about burka. Some women wears it on free choice, on a political choice.
Weraring a burka is their way to say "Fuck the Occident, Fuck the USA, Fuck Israel ! Allah Wackhbar !"

 

[mrtrebus]

Now you got me interested. What exactly is the dress code stated in the French constitution? Does everyone have to wear a feather in their hat and one of those frilly lace neck scarves?:rofl:

I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anything about jeans and a t-shirt, or cowboy boots, and crotchless panties... shouldn't they ban those as well?

They all have to dress like this I guess?

http://www.acefancydress.co.uk/images/images_big/21305.jpg

 

[Kingfisher]

Hah! French Government.

 

[jibbijib]

From another forum, a woman who lived in Iran.

The burqa is NOT a religious piece of clothing BUT... it is a cultural fact that wearing one is necessary because of the lack of control that men have. They can just RAPE you when they want and its YOU (as in women) who are the sl*ts/wh*res because of it.
___________________

No no. I mean culturally they do... as in where they come from, be it pakistan, india, iran etc. Its just that when they immigrate to france they're still so used to wearing those clothes that they find it hard to change. I suppose France should not discriminate if those women DO wish to continue wearing them. I can also guess that those women will soon figure out that they're protected by laws in france and won't be harmed... and soon start to actually 'enjoy' having some fashion.

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

They all have to dress like this I guess?

http://www.acefancydress.co.uk/images/images_big/21305.jpg

That, and they have to speak with an accent like Maurice Chevalier when speaking English.

 

[DreamSparrow]

This is classic French liberal illiberalism at work. This is a basic infringement on the liberty of the citizen, and for it to happen in a country which was so influential in the formation of the idea of modern liberal democracy, it's truly tragic.

Except in particular situations where it is necessary for a person to remove clothing (for example, if a policeman pulls over a 'beburkaed' woman who's speeding she should have to comply with a request to see her face), the government has no right to get involved in how people dress.

The problem with the burka is that 2 very significants civil rights are at clash: the liberty of religion and the equality of men and women.

There is no clash at all, only the illusion of one being propagated for purely populist political ends.

There is an entirely false assumption here that all women who wear the burka are pressured into doing so. When a similar debate propped up here in the UK a couple of years ago, it became clear that first generation Muslim immigrants were less likely to wear the burka and were sometimes even disapproving of it, but their second and third generation daughters had chosen to dress that way anyway.

Quite simply, a citizen in a free society should neither feel compelled to wear the burka (through familial or societal pressure) nor should she feel compelled not to remove it (through legal enforcement by an overly intrusive government).

The same should apply to every religion. Jews should be free to wear the yarmulke, Sikhs should be free to wear the turban, Rastafarians should be free to wear the tam, and Christians should be free to wear the crucifix.

French laicite has been lost. While Sarkozy and his cohorts are correct to insist on no religious involvement in government, the government is all too meddlesome when it comes to religion.