Filmmakers, Obama administration say bin Laden movie is not a campaign ploy

[KillTheIndustry]

What have I lied about? :dunno:

I know the term straw man. But You Misunderstand me, and are painting me as saying something I didn't. When did I say Obama deserves NO credit?

If you didn't say Bush should get no credit, then it shouldn't concern you. This isn't the only thread this topic has been discussed. So you ask when did anyone say that, evidently in a thread you were not a part of. But people have said that. Besides, it was more of an example to illustrate a point. As you have done repeatedly.

Maybe you didn't say Obama deserves all the credit, and that Bush and the military deserve none, but with all this arguing, you have yet to say otherwise either.

Lastly, are you saying Obama was sitting at his desk and thought, 'hey, I should send troops to Pakistan!'? Read my quotes about Bush. HE sent troops to Pakistan too. And I'm sure BOTH of them did it based on advice and intel given to them by another.

 

[accountantNOT]

What have I lied about? :dunno:

I already highlighted that bit.

You were arguing because I said Obama shouldn't get sole credit. If you agree, what is your argument?

I don't know why people consider it to be Obama's success. The military leaders and troops are the ones that got the job done.

You weren't talking about 'sole' credit, you were talking about 'any' credit.

I know the term straw man. But you misunderstand me, and are painting me as saying something I didn't. When did I say Obama deserves NO credit?

And when did I say that Bush deserves no credit for killing other terrorists? If I didn't then how is not a strawman?

The only credit you are ready to give him is for 'signing papers and giving orders' when there is a lot more to it.

I don't know why people consider it to be Obama's success. The military leaders and troops are the ones that got the job done.


Giving orders and signing papers is one thing, pulling a trigger is another.

Maybe you didn't say Obama deserves all the credit, and that Bush and the military deserve none, but with all this arguing, you have yet to say otherwise either.

Giving credit where it is due is not an either/or question, one can give credit to the millitary and Obama at the same time.

Lastly, are you saying Obama was sitting at his desk and thought, 'hey, I should send troops to Pakistan!'? Read my quotes about Bush. HE sent troops to Pakistan too. And I'm sure BOTH of them did it based on advice and intel given to them by another.

That's not what happened, he had the policy set long before he got into office. And I never argued that if Bush did the same he would not have deserved great credit, so no idea why you keep bringing up Bush.

In August 2007

I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear: There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf will not act, we will.

In 08, debate with Mccain.

Here's what I said, and if John wants to disagree with this, he can let me know: That, if the United States has al Qaeda, bin Laden, top-level lieutenants in our sights, and Pakistan is unable or unwilling to act, then we should take them out. Now, I think that's the right strategy; I think that's the right policy

And Mccain had this to say in 2011.

I think President Bush is being credit[ed] and he deserved credit, but I also think President Obama and his team deserve great credit as well. President Obama made the decision to go in the way they did and that obviously turned out to be an excellent decision

 

[KillTheIndustry]

I already highlighted that bit.

You say I lied because I didn't use the word 'sole'. Then you lied, because I didn't use the word 'any' either. I can't edit my original post, so you're going to have to trust my revised statements on the matter. It's not being a straw man if I'm not contradicting myself.

And when did I say that Bush deserves no credit for killing other terrorists? If I didn't then how is not a strawman?

I addressed that:

If you didn't say Bush should get no credit, then it shouldn't concern you. This isn't the only thread this topic has been discussed. So you ask when did anyone say that, evidently in a thread you were not a part of. But people have said that. Besides, it was more of an example to illustrate a point. As you have done repeatedly.

I'm sorry you don't like my wording, as that seems to be the only issue you are taking. For the most part, I agree with you. That's why I really don't understand your anger. To me, 'made the decision' and 'gave the go ahead' are close enough. You're simply arguing semantics now.

On the topic, I'll be very curious to see this movie. Perhaps it will give us all an idea of what actually happened.

 

[accountantNOT]

You say I lied because I didn't use the word 'sole'. Then you lied, because I didn't use the word 'any' either. I can't edit my original post, so you're going to have to trust my revised statements on the matter. It's not being a straw man if I'm not contradicting myself.

I never said that you said the word any, I said that you changed your argument to 'sole' after giving Obama no credit.

And that's not what the strawman argument was about, it was about your Bush statement.

I'm sorry you don't like my wording, as that seems to be the only issue you are taking. For the most part, I agree with you. That's why I really don't understand your anger. To me, 'made the decision' and 'gave the go ahead' are close enough. You're simply arguing semantics now.

On the topic, I'll be very curious to see this movie. Perhaps it will give us all an idea of what actually happened.

It's not semantics, formulating a policy is not the same as simply giving a go ahead. Reinstating the Bin Laden desk at CIA is not the same as simply giving a go ahead. Deciding against military advice to bomb the compound is not the same as simply giving a go ahead. . To assign more troops and intelligence to Afghanistan is not the same as simply giving a go ahead.

 

[Trident1]

Both Bush and Obama deserve credit but Obama gets the lion's share.

 

[KillTheIndustry]

I never said that you said the word any, I said that you changed your argument to 'sole' after giving Obama no credit.

Actually, you did. You put 'any' in quotations. And again, when did I give Obama 'no credit'? Wow, we're just going around in circles!

I said it wasn't his victory, but the military's. Because in MY view, the military did the important part. EVEN OBAMA AGREES!!!

And that's not what the strawman argument was about, it was about your Bush statement.

Now who's being the straw man? You quoted my statements on Obama and the military, where I made no mention of Bush, and called me a straw man twice.

It's not semantics, formulating a policy is not the same as simply giving a go ahead. Reinstating the Bin Laden desk at CIA is not the same as simply giving a go ahead. Deciding against military advice to bomb the compound is not the same as simply giving a go ahead. . To assign more troops and intelligence to Afghanistan is not the same as simply giving a go ahead.

Again, Obama does not act alone in these things. Do you even know what a military advisor is? Do you know who Robert Gates is? You think Obama acts alone? Do you think everything he has done was based on a hunch, or from his own observations? No, he makes decisions (see there, I said it) on the options he is given or presented with when the situation has been explained to him. Then the success of that mission is out of his hands at that point. It's a process, and Obama has his part, and the military has there's.

Again, from President Obama himself:

They endure separation from their families, they take extraordinary risks -- they get the job done.

 

[24 Grams]

Americans are the real terrorists.

 

[accountantNOT]

Actually, you did. You put 'any' in quotations. And again, when did I give Obama 'no credit'? Wow, we're just going around in circles!

I was highlighting the distinction between sole & any and I quoted your full statement right after I wrote 'any'.

I said it wasn't his victory, but the military's. Because in MY view, the military did the important part. EVEN OBAMA AGREES!!!

The millitary does as its ordered, just because they successfully executed a mission that Obama ordered them to do doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve credit for his policies. And ofcourse, Obama is going to be modest in public, he is a politician after all.

Now who's being the straw man? You quoted my statements on Obama and the military, where I made no mention of Bush, and called me a straw man twice.

First of all, just mentioning something offtopic doesn't make it a strawman, its bringing up something irrelevant and then assuming the opponent's position regarding it is what makes something a strawman.

Secondly, I was correcting you, you highlighted the wrong argument as a strawman.

Again, Obama does not act alone in these things. Do you even know what a military advisor is? Do you know who Robert Gates is? You think Obama acts alone? Do you think everything he has done was based on a hunch, or from his own observations? No, he makes decisions (see there, I said it) on the options he is given or presented with when the situation has been explained to him. Then the success of that mission is out of his hands at that point. It's a process, and Obama has his part, and the military has there's.

Again, from President Obama himself:

Here comes another strawman. Nobody said that he acted alone, what I said was that it was his policies that set him apart. If it was upto the advisors then why did they let Bush dismantle the Bin Laden desk at CIA? Why was so much change in Afghanistan policy right after Obama took office? Why didn't he bomb the compound when the advisors asked him to?

 

[KillTheIndustry]

THEN WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU ARGUING WITH ME ABOUT, YOU FUCKING PSYCHOPATH?!

I never said Obama deserves no credit, as you say I did. I never lied, as you say I did. I never contradicted myself, as you say I did.

I expressed an opinion, and you started bitching. Maybe I accused you of something you didn't do, BUT SO HAVE YOU. Fuck off, troll!

 

[accountantNOT]

Americans are the real terrorists.

Please do not confuse the military-industrial complex with real Americans.

 

[accountantNOT]

I never said Obama deserves no credit, as you say I did. I never lied, as you say I did. I never contradicted myself, as you say I did.

Right :drama:

I don't know why people consider it to be Obama's success. The military leaders and troops are the ones that got the job done.

Are they going to say that it was because of his brilliant leadership that we found him? Even if you give Obama credit for killing bin Laden, it still didn't stop the war. So what would this accomplish? Does it justify the war? A war Obama didn't even start.

 

[KillTheIndustry]

Bad wording. Believe it or not, I meant the actual act of killing him. Atar554 seemed to understand:

He didn't pull the trigger but no president has.

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

One more time, here's what I said:

The military leaders and troops are the ones that got the job done.

And here's what Obama said:

They endure separation from their families, they take extraordinary risks -- they get the job done.

So, what have I said wrong?

 

[accountantNOT]

Bad wording. Believe it or not, I meant the actual act of killing him. Atar554 seemed to understand:

Actually Atar554 was pointing out your faulty reasoning as well.

He didn't pull the trigger but no president has. No politician has on anything. If you follow your logic on that point why do we give a shit about Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson when they never marched into battle?

One more time, here's what I said:

And here's what Obama said:

So, what have I said wrong?

And I have no problem with that line regarding the job done, what I have a problem with (just like Atar554) was this line.

I don't know why people consider it to be Obama's success..........

Which you clarified later with this statement.

....Even if you give Obama credit for killing bin Laden, it still didn't stop the war....

And that's what you said wrong.

 

[izabelplayer]

the film will probably have an affect in boosting obama ratings given what has happened the past few months.

 

[Parrothead]

This was actually an interesting thread until it became about arguing nonsense and having to have the last word.

 

[lurkingdirk]

This was actually an interesting thread until it became about arguing nonsense and having to have the last word.

Dude, you need to shut up. I get the last word. Obviously I'm right. About everything.

Wait. Were we not fighting?

Never mind.

 

[KillTheIndustry]

Actually Atar554 was pointing out your faulty reasoning as well.

And I'm also sure you can read where I responded to him. I don't give them credit for what is done on the battlefield. Once the order is given, it's up to the military. I see no contradictions in what I've said there.

Anyway, I'm done. My viewpoint hasn't changed since yesterday, so all you're bitching about is my word usage. I admit I misspoke, so have the grammar police come get me - I'm a bad man. :crying:

Now, about this movie...

 

[Parrothead]

Dude, you need to shut up. I get the last word. Obviously I'm right. About everything.

Wait. Were we not fighting?

Never mind.

LOL...I was wondering who was going to do that.

 

[lurkingdirk]

LOL...I was wondering who was going to do that.

Seriously. Shut the fuc...

Oh. nevermind. I did it again.

 

[KillTheIndustry]

Fighting Temptation...
Fighting Temptation...
Fighting Temptation...
Fighting Temptation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m34GUn0QqA

FUCK!

:lurk: