Feds Shutdown Top File-Sharing Site, Megaupload Today

[lurkingdirk]

Try arguing that point with any court and see how fast you get laughed out of it. I am over here laughing my ass off because you are essentially saying that a person should get the same punishment for ripping off a CD as they would for a car jacking. That's dumb.

Okay, skippy. Let's go over this again. Where in my post did I say anything about punishment? I didn't. You (and others) implied that stealing something cheap isn't really stealing. I merely pointed out the fact that it is, in actuality, stealing. If you steal a penny candy or a Mercedes, the acts are both stealing.

Only a dumb fuck would then think that I would believe they receive the same punishment. Way to make a jump in logic.

 

[ShikokuKichiguy]

My friend played a CD for me the other day in his car.
According to some of you, we should now receive the death penalty.

 

[lurkingdirk]

My friend played a CD for me the other day in his car.
According to some of you, we should now receive the death penalty.

That's not stealing.

 

[Bearded_Menace]

Okay, skippy. Let's go over this again. Where in my post did I say anything about punishment? I didn't. You (and others) implied that stealing something cheap isn't really stealing. I merely pointed out the fact that it is, in actuality, stealing. If you steal a penny candy or a Mercedes, the acts are both stealing.

Only a dumb fuck would then think that I would believe they receive the same punishment. Way to make a jump in logic.

You said that stealing a car and stealing a CD is the exact same thing and that the amount of money involved is irrelevant. What the hell am I supposed to believe with a post like that? I brought up punishment because that is ultimately what it leads to when one is caught stealing anything. My point there is that laws regarding CRI are draconian at best. And I never said stealing something cheap isn't stealing. I am basically saying that its a waste of fucking time and taxpayer money for the government to go after people for such a miniscule, virtually victimless act as copyright infringment. Am I the only one who sees this as utterly futile as the so called war on drugs or prohibition? We only have about 50 years of collective failure to pull from in regards to these things. What makes so many believe that piracy is gonna be different? It's only been going on for thousands of years.

 

[24 Grams]

I've read through all ten pages of this back-and-forth, finding it frequently goes right back to where it started. I.e., there isn't much new to be said. I personally stand by the distinction I and many have made between theft and piracy: that one deprives the owner of property and the other does not. Does that make piracy right? No. But neither, as pointed out by 24 Grams does breaking the law equate to wrong:

Exactly, piracy is breaking the law...but breaking the law is all it is. I do not consider it morally wrong like stealing.

I've read through all ten pages of this back-and-forth, finding it frequently goes right back to where it started. I.e., there isn't much new to be said...

This too, so instead of trying to argue about the ethics of file-sharing I'd like to figure out why people file-share and why we're in this mess in the first place.

Who here has an iPod? iPhone? iPad? Any Media Player? The storage on those thing are getting ludicrous..32Gb, 64Gb...A 64Gb iPod can hold up to 16,000 songs...are some of y'all trying to tell me you paid for every song on your media player? Some of you guys are richer than I thought....

Currently, iTunes (in the U.K.) sell tracks from 99p to 59p (which is what? 1.50 to 0.90 in US dollars?). If I paid for EACH track I'd be paying up to £13,000...GBP or US dollars that is ALOT of money...now imagine throwing movies into that as well? How does that make sense? It's the ugly truth the record and movie industry wants to ignore as they struggle to find ways to get people to pay for content in a culture that has already embraced the idea of media being something you collect in large volumes, and trade freely with your friends.

My knowledge is mostly with record companies but I also believe ALL industries affected by file-sharing had a chance to move forward, to evolve with technology and address the changing needs of consumers - and they didn't. Instead, they panicked - they showed their hand as power-hungry dinosaurs, and they started to demonize their own customers, the people whose love had given them massive profits for decades.

"...No one gets to vote on whether technology is going to change our lives" - Bill Gates.

In all cases technology demands that change will happen, it's just a matter of who will find ways to take advantage of it, and who won't.

 

[RichardNailder]

Exactly, piracy is breaking the law...but breaking the law is all it is. I do not consider it morally wrong like stealing.



This too, so instead of trying to argue about the ethics of file-sharing I'd like to figure out why people file-share and why we're in this mess in the first place.



My knowledge is mostly with record companies but I also believe ALL industries affected by file-sharing had a chance to move forward, to evolve with technology and address the changing needs of consumers - and they didn't. Instead, they panicked - they showed their hand as power-hungry dinosaurs, and they started to demonize their own customers, the people whose love had given them massive profits for decades.

"...No one gets to vote on whether technology is going to change our lives" - Bill Gates.

In all cases technology demands that change will happen, it's just a matter of who will find ways to take advantage of it, and who won't.

According to your own words, you a morally bankrupt person trying to justify the fact that you are a thief.

 

[Briana Lee]

To put it another way: I see downloading as a victimless crime. If I download your film, photoshoot, book, CD, you lose absolutely nothing. You can thump your chest and point out how something for nothing is stealing all you want, but you still have lost nothing - and it isn't something for nothing. I had to pay for the tools to be able to copy it - the computer and the like. Different only in scale to, say, acquiring the tools to build my own Mercedes or make my own potato chips/Hershey bar. But I must digress, because scale is important to a discussion about pragmatic responses to piracy if not moral ones (as somebody pointed out, there's a big legal difference between theft and grand theft - if not morally). Uploading is of course another matter, but as STDiva and papagmp are discussing, you won't get one without the other.

You said that stealing a car and stealing a CD is the exact same thing and that the amount of money involved is irrelevant. What the hell am I supposed to believe with a post like that? I brought up punishment because that is ultimately what it leads to when one is caught stealing anything. My point there is that laws regarding CRI are draconian at best. And I never said stealing something cheap isn't stealing. I am basically saying that its a waste of fucking time and taxpayer money for the government to go after people for such a miniscule, virtually victimless act as copyright infringment. Am I the only one who sees this as utterly futile as the so called war on drugs or prohibition? We only have about 50 years of collective failure to pull from in regards to these things. What makes so many believe that piracy is gonna be different? It's only been going on for thousands of years.

Victimless?! Are you fucking kidding me?! You can go and ask any of the 500+ OCSMs on here & they will tell you that they have been effected by copyright infringement in some way, so to say that the act of Copyright Infringemnrt is virtually victimless is a ridiculous thing to say, it really is!!

Unless you have paid to see my content you don't have the right to see it, it's as simple as that. There are plenty of people out there that pay to see it so what makes you better than them?! I asked this question previously in this thread and none of the people in favour of stealing content answered it. I wonder why that was?!

As I've said before, it's not just big corporations that are effected by this, it's individuals too.

 

[24 Grams]

According to your own words, you a morally bankrupt person trying to justify the fact that you are a thief.

I understand your animosity, your a content owner and similar to the likes of Briana Lee and Erika Red.

I don't know about the porn situation, but I do know about the music one. Technological innovation destroys old industries, but it creates new ones. You can't fight it forever.
Whether you agree with it or not, it's fact. It's inevitable - because the determination of fans to share is much, much stronger than the determination of corporations to stop it.

 

[RichardNailder]

Victimless?! Are you fucking kidding me?! You can go and ask any of the 500+ OCSMs on here & they will tell you that they have been effected by copyright infringement in some way, so to say that the act of Copyright Infringemnrt is virtually victimless is a ridiculous thing to say, it really is!!

Unless you have paid to see my content you don't have the right to see it, it's as simple as that. There are plenty of people out there that pay to see it so what makes you better than them?! I asked this question previously in this thread and none of the people in favour of stealing content answered it. I wonder why that was?!

As I've said before, it's not just big corporations that are effected by this, it's individuals too.

Bravo Briana! :clap:

My company consists of myself and a 19-year-old apprentice editor, camera girl, helper and friend who is, in my honest opinion "the shit". We both work 60+ hours a week filming, editing, marketing our products for just over minimum wage.

The fact that I have to spend so much of my time preventing thieves from hacking my sites, sending out DMCA's to illegal file sharing service, deleting users that post their passwords on password sharing sites, resetting passwords of good users because some ass-wipe with a hack program just locked their account or dealing with ass-wipes that think they are entitled to my hard work without sharing in the cost of production not only pisses me off, it directly raises the cost of those great and highly valued members that follow the rules.

You ass-wipes that think this is a victimless crime are either total fucking morons or just morally bankrupt scum trying to justify the fact that you are thieves.

 

[RichardNailder]

I understand your animosity, your a content owner and similar to the likes of Briana Lee and Erika Red.

I don't know about the porn situation, but I do know about the music one. Technological innovation destroys old industries, but it creates new ones. You can't fight it forever.
Whether you agree with it or not, it's fact. It's inevitable - because the determination of fans to share is much, much stronger than the determination of corporations to stop it.

We're not talking about technological innovation - we're talking about theft - plain and simple.

Just because technology allows online access to my bank account, doesn't mean everyone should have access to my funds.

 

[24 Grams]

...Just because technology allows online access to my bank account, doesn't mean everyone should have access to my funds.

But if thieves had access to your bank account? I suspect changes would be in order.

Like I've said many times before my beef is with the money hungry pigs that run major music labels, there partly responsible for this situation.

...I'm all for the support of the "artist", the talent that creates the content...I think it is important to support the ones we like, so they can continue. I hope in my heart of hearts there are people who download from P2P websites that still by products, go to concerts, sign-up to a webcam etc...

How do you get the money for the site? Isn't there someone you have to pay? I don't watch much porn and even so, material on websites like these are enough for me...but for those that are independent (which I imagine incudes both you and Erika) I'll happily pay for subscriptions, pay for videos, buy music, buy their merchandise, tell all my friends about them and help promote them online - I'd like to prove to them that a network of passionate fans is the best promotion these people can ask for.

 

[RichardNailder]

But if thieves had access to your bank account?

Then they should be charged, tried, convicted and punished just like all thieves should be.

 

[RichardNailder]

PHOENIX — A federal judge last week ordered two alleged porn Bit******* defendants to cough up damages in a case involving K-Beech's "Virgin 4."

But the pair of defendants, who never responded to the suit, were ordered to pay only $750 a piece in what may be the first default judgments against those alleged to have illegally poached and traded adult entertainment content through Bit******* networks.

Full story: http://www.xbiz.com/news/144268

 

[24 Grams]

Then they should be charged, tried, convicted and punished just like all thieves should be.

Yes. But that's not the point...there will ALWAYS be criminals. The solution is to find a way in which the criminal cannot get to you, or scratch that, use what they use AGAINST them.

Again, just like some others you're only seeing it from your point of view. Empathy = tool for understanding/analysis.

I'm not essentially pro-piracy...I have looked @ both sides.

 

[RichardNailder]

Yes. But that's not the point...there will ALWAYS be criminals. The solution is to find a way in which the criminal cannot get to you, or scratch that, use what they use AGAINST them.

Again, just like some others you're only seeing it from your point of view. Empathy = tool for understanding/analysis.

I'm not essentially pro-piracy...I have looked @ both sides.

I understand that we'll always have criminals - but we're creating an entire culture of people that think they are "entitled" to things that they have not earned themselves. I have no empathy for such people.


The idea that many in this tread have stated - that downloading stolen content is not stealing is bullshit. It's theft - no matter how you try to justify it.


If you're broke, I have thousands of free galleries, pics and vids that I provide legally and free of charge - enjoy them, wank to them and hopefully someday you'll enjoy my content enough to help us survive.

But if you're downloading my membership content and you didn't pay for it, or sharing it illegally, you are stealing from me, my affiliates, my employee, my models and my members. We are the ones that bear the cost of your theft directly.



And we're tired of it.

 

[TheAdmiral]

Hey Hollywood, Online Piracy Doesn't Hurt Your U.S. Box Office Returns [STUDY]

Remember SOPA? Remember the urgency with which the bill's backers were trying to convince us that its intended target, online piracy, was a clear and present danger? Remember how those dastardly Bit*******ers were going to deprive us of a functioning, creative movie industry?

Well, an academic study now doing the rounds suggests that's nonsense. According to researchers at the University of Minnesota and Wellesley College who examined box office history, piracy has never affected Hollywood's U.S. revenues. After Bit******* file-sharing software started appearing online in the early 2000s, it had no effect -- none whatsoever -- on domestic receipts.

"We do not see evidence of elevated sales displacement in U.S. box office revenue following the adoption of Bit*******," the researchers concluded. "Consumers in the U.S. who would choose between the box office and piracy choose the box office."

When it comes to the international market, Bit******* did have an impact. Researchers found a 7% drop in box office receipts in countries other than the U.S. after the introduction of Bit*******.

But the researchers also found a correlation with the length of time between a movie's U.S. release and its international release. The longer a movie took to come out in other countries, the more likely people were to download it.

In other words, Hollywood's online marketing machine is so effective that it has global reach, and so insidious that some eager movie fans can't wait and lead themselves into temptation. And that is the sum total of the online piracy problem.

For example, as Boing Boing's Cory Doctorow notes, The Muppets was only just released in the UK this month -- after a Thanksgiving release in the U.S. That means Muppet fans in the UK (of which there are millions) had to endure a summer full of YouTube trailers and a fall full of reviews of the critically acclaimed movie -- and still couldn't see it legally for another three months.

If only 7% of them turned to file-sharing as a solution, that would suggest nearly all movie-goers are law-abiding citizens even in the most tempting of circumstances. And that if movie studios want that money back, they should reconsider their marketing strategies and release date windows, rather than lobbying for draconian Internet laws with unintended consequences.

Reel Piracy: The Effect of Online Film Piracy on International Box Office Sales

Abstract:
Hollywood films are generally released first in the United States and then later abroad, with some variation in lags across films and countries. With the growth in movie piracy since the appearance of Bit******* in 2003, films have become available through illegal piracy immediately after release in the US, while they are not available for legal viewing abroad until their foreign premieres in each country. We make use of this variation in international release lags to ask whether longer lags – which facilitate more local pre-release piracy – depress theatrical box office receipts, particularly after the widespread adoption of Bit*******. We find that longer release windows are associated with decreased box office returns, even after controlling for film and country fixed effects. This relationship is much stronger in contexts where piracy is more prevalent: after Bit*******’s adoption and in heavily-pirated genres. Our findings indicate that, as a lower bound, international box office returns in our sample were at least 7% lower than they would have been in the absence of pre-release piracy. By contrast, we do not see evidence of elevated sales displacement in US box office revenue following the adoption of Bit*******, and we suggest that delayed legal availability of the content abroad may drive the losses to piracy.

 

[Zolf J. Kimbly]

Ha!

Eat it you fascist hollywood bastards!

This outcry against so called piracy is just an attempt by fascist bastards to squeeze every dime out of ya!

Just another attempt by the man to control every aspect of your life.

Wake up planet earth!

 

[STDiva]

Stealing = losses. Piracy = assumed losses. We have to differentiate between the two and those who are charged with piracy or copyright infringement should not be tried as thieves. It's different. It's not theft, but it's not..not theft. This ain't just black or white, yo.

 

[24 Grams]

I understand that we'll always have criminals - but we're creating an entire culture of people that think they are "entitled" to things that they have not earned themselves. I have no empathy for such people.

So you'd prefer the people that stole from you believe they weren't entitled to your goods? Really?

The idea that many in this tread have stated - that downloading stolen content is not stealing is bullshit. It's theft - no matter how you try to justify it.

That fact remains that file-sharing is a grey-area. A lot of the people that download from file-sharing sites would NOT walk into a shop and steal.

If you're broke, I have thousands of free galleries, pics and vids that I provide legally and free of charge - enjoy them, wank to them and hopefully someday you'll enjoy my content enough to help us survive.

I'm willing to bet you ALOT of people don't know that.

But if you're downloading my membership content and you didn't pay for it, or sharing it illegally, you are stealing from me, my affiliates, my employee, my models and my members. We are the ones that bear the cost of your theft directly.

True. But you must ALSO take into account if it was NOT for file-sharing websites....I'd estimate ALMOST HALF of the porn audience would disappear...

 

[Briana Lee]

Ha!

Eat it you fascist hollywood bastards!

This outcry against so called piracy is just an attempt by fascist bastards to squeeze every dime out of ya!

Just another attempt by the man to control every aspect of your life.

Wake up planet earth!

'The Man'....oh dear.

Did you actually read the title of the thread hun?