Edward Snowden: The Hegelian Dialectic

[gmase]

The science is that the overwhelming majority of people worldwide who tested positive for COVID did not die, or even get sick. The world wide mortality rate for COVID is less than 2%, with or without a vaccination, and the worldwide mortality rate from COVID never exceeded 6% on average, even at the height of the pandemic. You have a better chance of dying from heart disease, or cancer, than dying from COVID.

Despite this minimal risk of death, COVID restrictions have forced the greatest number of people into unemployment and starvation in the history of mankind. The freedom to make an honest living is the most basic need of human existence. Without this freedom, many people have no choice but poverty. It is the government of each country who dictated these restrictions without debate. And these restrictions have been uniformly exercised in a discriminatory manner, especially against religious expressions and gatherings in America, and around the world. Hence the importance of the Cuomo Supreme Court ruling.

You can keep repeating that "COVID restrictions have forced the greatest number of people into unemployment and starvation in the history of mankind", but it does not make it a true statement. Over the last two centuries there have been much worse periods of starvation. Unemployment is a made-up statistic only applicable to developed countries. Even then it only indicates trends over time and is not a precise number.

I am more concerned with heart disease than gun violence, COVID, et al. You must have noted my March 29th post in another thread:

We should actually be more worried about dying from heart disease than random gun violence. [Full disclosure: I have been more worried about heart disease than guns for most of my existence.

You quote a 2-6% mortality rate, so I will use 2% here. The restrictions are meant to limit the exposure to the overall population. Let's say there are ~8 billion people on the planet exposed directly to coronavirus. At a 2% mortality rate, that is 160 million people. For each 10% reduction in the number of exposures, 16 million excess deaths are potentially averted. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...ckdowns-saved-millions-from-dying-of-covid-19

In addition to excess deaths, how much misery would be inflicted by strained healthcare systems. Do you really want to inflict an India-style crisis on the world? I would suggest the lack of healthcare access at that point would have caused the excess deaths to hover closer to 6%. That would meant nearly 500 million deaths worldwide. But, hey, Black Death killed half of Europe so we're good!

Yes, science is killing god. Church attendance in the US has been declining for the past couple decades - as in, pre-COVID. Why? People are beginning to realize the planet is millions of years old, the earth is not the center of the universe, man evolved over millennia, etc. Is there a god? I certainly do not have any special knowledge if there is or not. Neither does anyone else.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/341963/church-membership-falls-below-majority-first-time.aspx

 

[D-rock]

I like how nonchalant some people are about something like a potentially 1 or 2 percent fatality rate. For a disease that is fucking horrible. Sure it's not Black Death scale, but something shouldn't have to reach that level of devastation to cause alarm. Just do the math on it. 1 or two percent of people in the US is significantly more soldiers than we have lost in every war we have been in our history. Hell, we are fast approaching that point as it is. If we had a war or some other reasonable preventable catastrophe that was greater in it's death total than the total wars we have had to date everybody would be loosing their shit at this time, but because this was some pandemic that was ignored for political reasons too many people seem to not give a shit.

For the record as somebody that considers himself religious it's not science that I think has caused the downfall of religion. It's so called religious people that have caused their own downfall. I look at very religious people in this country, especially those that proclaim themselves Christians, and see a group of people that are completely phony. The extent their religion has any meaning for them is in it's potential use as an excuse to control and dominate other people. All that stuff about love and sacrifice and doing what you can to help out others has never mean anything to them. I've come to realize the real gods they worship have the names of money and power, and all that fake ceremonial stuff they is just theater in the pursuit of that .

Maybe seeing them corrupt my own religions is why I despise them to the length I do. Yes, I can understand why decent people could look at them and not want anything to do with them. They are right to do so. I sure as hell don't. It's ironic that I find many atheist or agnostic people to be more Christian than the Christians. Sure, they might have a different reason for their conduct or love of other people, they may call it by another name, but in the end I find it doesn't matter if they have all the actual qualities good people should have. I have can have more solidarity with those people, and can sit back and hope to see the day organized religious institutions start to die away. If they don't like that they should have cared more about people and not been found wanting. They deserve to fade away.

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

Welcome to the Society D-rock.

Apparently the Catholic Church is going with the Pope Emeritus's position to help keep counts down. Remember Benedict saying he would rather have a smaller congregation that followed the rules rather than a bigger one that didn't?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pelosi-archbishop-says-pro-abortion-170336742.html

 

[eric2136]

The point is that you have a choice, and can make the decision that’s best for you based on as much knowledge as possible. It is your ability to choose that is being threatened.

Because it is not just one or two shots…It is potentially a multitude of “booster” shots as well over an unspecified period of time. And if you don’t get whatever shot the government tells you too, then you could be barred from certain activities.

In any event, this thread is really not about COVID anyways, only to the extent that it represents a more recent example of the overall subject matter of this thread, which is the government using a crisis situation as an excuse to take away your freedoms.

And now a new completely fabricated crisis situation is "voter fraud'. So now, even though Trump didn't even win the the popular vote when he became president in 2016, Republicans are using his loss in 2020 as justification to gerrymander, and suppress Americans Democratic right to vote in a free election.

The overall purpose of any false flag (Hegelian) agenda is ultimately the creation of a fascist dictatorship. Without free and fair elections in every state, American democracy will not survive, and fascism will be the new American reality.

 

[gmase]

And now a new completely fabricated crisis situation is "voter fraud'. So now, even though Trump didn't even win the the popular vote when he became president in 2016, Republicans are using his loss in 2020 as justification to gerrymander, and suppress Americans Democratic right to vote in a free election.

The overall purpose of any false flag (Hegelian) agenda is ultimately the creation of a fascist dictatorship. Without free and fair elections in every state, American democracy will not survive, and fascism will be the new American reality.

Great post and quite correct.

 

[eric2136]

Great post and quite correct.

Thank you. You are very observant, and I appreciate those kind words. I'm sure all Americans will be watching closely how these proposed voter suppression laws fair when analyzed, for legal constitutionality, in courts across the country.

Republicans are hoping that this latest "Afghan Withdrawal Distraction" will keep people's minds from paying attention to the many very important Domestic Issues facing the country.

I know there are other threads discussing Afghanistan, but from the perspective of resolving this issue here in the thread, they can intellectually take the following points of emphasis, and clarity, to heart:

1) U.S. OCCUPATION OF AFGHANISTAN WAS ILLEGAL. TOTALLY USELESS, INEFFECTIVE, AND A WASTE OF AMERICAN MONEY, AND LIVES.

"The UN Charter is a treaty ratified by the United States and thus part of US law. Under the charter, a country can use armed force against another country only in self-defense or when the Security Council approves. ... The US war in Afghanistan is illegal."
https://www.e-ir.info/2013/11/06/was-the-nato-invasion-of-afghanistan-legal/

THE TERRORISTS ACCUSED OF THE 9/11 ATTACKS WEREN’T EVEN FROM AFGHANISTAN.

"Fifteen of the 19 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia. Two were from the United Arab Emirates, one was from Lebanon, and one was from Egypt."

2) AFGHAN WITHDRAWAL WAS TRUMPS IDIOTIC CAPITULATION AGREEMENT OF 2020 WITH THE TALIBAN.

*(4:05 VIDEO MARK)

3) THE AFGHANS HAVE THEIR OWN ARMED FORCES THAT THE U.S. WAS SUPPOSED TO BE BUILDING FOR 20 YEARS, INCLUDING AN AIR FORCE.

THERE IS NO WAY A MILITARY FORCE WITH AIR STRIKE CAPABILITIES COULD LOSE TO PREDOMINANTLY A GROUND FORCE, IN 1 OR 2 DAYS, UNLESS THERE WAS AFGHAN/TALIBAN COLLUSION. OR UNLESS THE U.S. PROVIDED THE WORST MILITARY TRAINING IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

4) AFGHANS DID NOT WANT AMERICANS INVADING THEIR COUNTRY. THEY AREN’T ANY THREAT TO AMERICA MILITARILY, OUTSIDE OF TERRORIST ACTIVITES WHICH ARE BETTER HANDLED BY THE NSA, CIA, FBI, AND DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY.

OCCUPATION OF AFGHANISTAN WAS EXPENSIVE, CAUSED MANY U.S. DEATHS, AND WAS TOTALLY INEFFECTIVE. THIS WAS EVIDENCED BY THE TALIBAN TAKING OVER THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT, IN ONE DAY, AFTER 20 YEARS OF AMERICAN OCCUPATION.

THIS AFGHAN WITHDRAWAL STORY IS ANOTHER TOTALLY FABRICATED MEDIA FRENZY. IT IS JUST ANOTHER DISTRACTION FROM NUMEROUS, OBVIOUSLY MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES IN THE UNITED STATES, AND THE WORLD IN GENERAL. DON’T FALL FOR IT.

I PERSONALLY AM GLAD MY MILITARY FAMILY MEMBER IS NO LONGER OVER THERE RISKING HIS LIFE DRIVING A TANK (AN EXTREMELY DANGEROUS JOB) FOR HIS COUNTRY. ESPECIALLY WHEN THE REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS WON’T PASS THE GEORGE FLOYD ACT TO PROTECT HIM WHEN HE COMES HOME.

IF ANY OF OUR ALLIES DON'T LIKE THE U.S. DECISION TO WITHDRAW, HASTILY OR OTHERWISE, THEN THEY CAN GO SEND THEIR MILITARY TO AFGHANISTAN, AND STAY AS LONG AS THEY LIKE.

 

[gmase]

Republicans are hoping that this latest "Afghan Withdrawal Distraction" will keep people's minds from paying attention to the many very important Domestic Issues facing the country.

I know there are other threads discussing Afghanistan, but from the perspective of resolving this issue here in the thread, they can intellectually take the following points of emphasis, and clarity, to heart:

1) U.S. OCCUPATION OF AFGHANISTAN WAS ILLEGAL. TOTALLY USELESS, INEFFECTIVE, AND A WASTE OF AMERICAN MONEY, AND LIVES.

"The UN Charter is a treaty ratified by the United States and thus part of US law. Under the charter, a country can use armed force against another country only in self-defense or when the Security Council approves. ... The US war in Afghanistan is illegal."
https://www.e-ir.info/2013/11/06/was-the-nato-invasion-of-afghanistan-legal/

THE TERRORISTS ACCUSED OF THE 9/11 ATTACKS WEREN’T EVEN FROM AFGHANISTAN.

"Fifteen of the 19 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia. Two were from the United Arab Emirates, one was from Lebanon, and one was from Egypt."

2) AFGHAN WITHDRAWAL WAS TRUMPS IDIOTIC CAPITULATION AGREEMENT OF 2020 WITH THE TALIBAN.
3) THE AFGHANS HAVE THEIR OWN ARMED FORCES THAT THE U.S. WAS SUPPOSED TO BE BUILDING FOR 20 YEARS, INCLUDING AN AIR FORCE.

THERE IS NO WAY A MILITARY FORCE WITH AIR STRIKE CAPABILITIES COULD LOSE TO PREDOMINANTLY A GROUND FORCE, IN 1 OR 2 DAYS, UNLESS THERE WAS AFGHAN/TALIBAN COLLUSION. OR UNLESS THE U.S. PROVIDED THE WORST MILITARY TRAINING IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.


4) AFGHANS DID NOT WANT AMERICANS INVADING THEIR COUNTRY. THEY AREN’T ANY THREAT TO AMERICA MILITARILY, OUTSIDE OF TERRORIST ACTIVITES WHICH ARE BETTER HANDLED BY THE NSA, CIA, FBI, AND DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY.

OCCUPATION OF AFGHANISTAN WAS EXPENSIVE, CAUSED MANY U.S. DEATHS, AND WAS TOTALLY INEFFECTIVE. THIS WAS EVIDENCED BY THE TALIBAN TAKING OVER THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT, IN ONE DAY, AFTER 20 YEARS OF AMERICAN OCCUPATION.

THIS AFGHAN WITHDRAWAL STORY IS ANOTHER TOTALLY FABRICATED MEDIA FRENZY. IT IS JUST ANOTHER DISTRACTION FROM NUMEROUS, OBVIOUSLY MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES IN THE UNITED STATES, AND THE WORLD IN GENERAL. DON’T FALL FOR IT.

I PERSONALLY AM GLAD MY MILITARY FAMILY MEMBER IS NO LONGER OVER THERE RISKING HIS LIFE DRIVING A TANK (AN EXTREMELY DANGEROUS JOB) FOR HIS COUNTRY. ESPECIALLY WHEN THE REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS WON’T PASS THE GEORGE FLOYD ACT TO PROTECT HIM WHEN HE COMES HOME.

There you go making sense again. You need to take this to the other threads. All of your points are valid.

In my opinion, originally invading Afghanistan was justified since they were harboring Al-Qaeda. Staying beyond the first 5 years was not justified by any means. That said, I understand the argument about it being illegal. Invading Iraq may have been legal (UNSCR 1441), but it was not justified. In the end, neither war accomplished much of anything besides destabilizing the region.

The argument concerning the Saudi involvement in 9/11 is important. Think of this, the Saudi government oppresses women in a similar manner as the Taliban. The Saudi government assassinated an opposition journalist. They are equally as bad as the Taliban. Why the double standard? (A rhetorical question. Unfortunately, I know the answer.)

Not returning the favor for serving is a long-held tradition:
https://www.history.com/news/black-soldiers-world-war-ii-discrimination

IF ANY OF OUR ALLIES DON'T LIKE THE U.S. DECISION TO WITHDRAW, HASTILY OR OTHERWISE, THEN THEY CAN GO SEND THEIR MILITARY TO AFGHANISTAN, AND STAY AS LONG AS THEY LIKE.

INDEED!

 

[eric2136]

but because this was some pandemic that was ignored for political reasons too many people seem to not give a shit.

I think most people, regardless of political affiliations, do take any health crisis the magnitude of COVID seriously. But what people don't like is the rush to judgement by the media to state that the vaccines are safe for everybody in the entire world, when there are clearly some adverse side-effects, and some people are dying after taking it.

In the United States, it takes an average of 12 to 15 years for an experimental vaccine drug to travel from the laboratory to your medicine cabinet. That is, if it makes it. The COVID vaccines were fast-tracked in 6 months for the pandemic, but any lethal side-effects, and adverse long term effects are just starting to be identified.

So for the media to advocate pushing these injections on anyone, especially developing small children, is dangerous and irresponsible, Especially since these drug companies allege that they cannot be held legally liable for deaths associated with their vaccine.

 

[eric2136]

There you go making sense again. You need to take this to the other threads. All of your points are valid.

In my opinion, originally invading Afghanistan was justified since they were harboring Al-Qaeda. Staying beyond the first 5 years was not justified by any means. That said, I understand the argument about it being illegal. Invading Iraq may have been legal (UNSCR 1441), but it was not justified. In the end, neither war accomplished much of anything besides destabilizing the region.

The argument concerning the Saudi involvement in 9/11 is important. Think of this, the Saudi government oppresses women in a similar manner as the Taliban. The Saudi government assassinated an opposition journalist. They are equally as bad as the Taliban. Why the double standard? (A rhetorical question. Unfortunately, I know the answer.)

Not returning the favor for serving is a long-held tradition:
https://www.history.com/news/black-soldiers-world-war-ii-discrimination


INDEED!

Very Good post!

And as the media has people fixated on this morbid Afghanistan side-show distraction, overwhelmingly important issues such as the The worldwide catastrophe of Man-Made Climate Change, which Republicans shamelessly claim doesn’t even exist, gets little, to no, coverage at all.

Meanwhile, the resulting deadly wildfires, some in the traditionally coldest regions of the entire planet, continue to burn out of control all over the world. While Republicans play a trivial political blame game over withdrawing troops from a 3rd world country irrelevant to United State present Military or Financial interests.

These horrendous fires continue to burn even now causing the worst destruction to our environment in the recorded History of mankind.

And all just so Republicans can get a few more dollars for their greedy elitist oil industry constituents.

"How the oil industry has spent billions to control the climate change conversation"​

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/08/oil-companies-climate-crisis-pr-spending​

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions
"Greenhouse gases trap heat and make the planet warmer. Human activities are responsible for almost all of the increase in greenhouse gases in the atmosphere over the last 150 years.1 The largest source of greenhouse gas emissions from human activities in the United States is from burning fossil fuels for electricity, heat, and transportation."

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/deforestation/
https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/tropical-deforestation-and-global-warming

 

[D-rock]

I think most people, regardless of political affiliations, do take any health crisis the magnitude of COVID seriously. But what people don't like is the rush to judgement by the media to state that the vaccines are safe for everybody in the entire world, when there are clearly some adverse side-effects, and some people are dying after taking it.

In the United States, it takes an average of 12 to 15 years for an experimental vaccine drug to travel from the laboratory to your medicine cabinet. That is, if it makes it. The COVID vaccines were fast-tracked in 6 months for the pandemic, but any lethal side-effects, and adverse long term effects are just starting to be identified.

So for the media to advocate pushing these injections on anyone, especially developing small children, is dangerous and irresponsible, Especially since these drug companies allege that they cannot be held legally liable for deaths associated with their vaccine.\

Yes, it the vaccine process was speed up, but at this point this might one of the most researched and studied medical issues, maybe ever, especially in the time frame they have did it in. A lot of stuff like that takes so long because of red tape and an overabundance of caution, both of which aren't an option with this. Anybody that believes your statement just sucks very profoundly at risk assessment and cost/benefit analysis. They don't know what the fuck they are actually talking about, and they are either listening to other people that don't know what they are talking about or a very small percentage of professionals that are totally drowned out by the overwhelming consensus of medical and scientific professionals the world over that study infectious diseases and viruses. It's not that the media or dug drug companies are saying it, it's that the media is siding with those professionals that know more than anybody else.

We know what the COVID virus can do now, and we also know that in all likelihood the long term effects of the virus will be much worse than the vaccine could ever hope to be. Anybody that comes away thinking the infinitesimally small chance of long term, severe, or wide ranging negative side effects of the vaccines will be anything remotely close to the danger the virus represents to the world is just a fucking idiot. I don't know any way to put it other than that. Worse by believing that they are prolonging the actual threat to the virus and making it even more dangerous than it already is. They are much more a danger to other people than the vaccine they are afraid of ever will be.

 

[eric2136]

A lot of stuff like that takes so long because of red tape and an overabundance of caution,

That's not true, and indicates you know nothing whatsoever about Research and Development in the pharmaceutical industry.

Otherwise, I'm not going to bother over analyzing your plethora of misspellings, and unsubstantiated claims, because it doesn't even seem to me that you have watched the videos posted, or otherwise even have more than a rudimentary understanding of the topic in general. I get my information from associates who were chemists in the military, and are now presently pharmaceutical reps and pharma-industry scientists, so this isn't a debate, as much as it is me trying to warn you, and tell you, about things you obviously don't know or understand.

There are alot of people who have died from taking these COVID vaccines, and 60 million doses of the J&J vaccine were pulled off the shelf and destroyed after all the industry scientists, you refer to, said it was safe, and after nearly 14 million people already took it. So what is the long term effects of that blunder, nobody knows because it's only been one year.

But the fact that these drug companies claim that they can't be sued for side effects, or deaths, legally proven to be associated with their drugs, should be a red flag to you. But If not, then by all means, continue to take dose after dose of these experimental drugs, and hopefully you will be OK. But if you do eventually experience serious side-effects, or die, then you won't care about what percentage of a chance it was that you got sick, and there will be nothing you, or your family, can legally do about it. Even if the drug company that created the vaccine is legally proven to be at fault.

Also your referral to risk-benefit analysis also shows a pathetic understanding of the topic, start at the 19:05 and 7:00 mark of this video if you want to begin to try to comprehend the reality of the situration, as it relates to a young 13 year boy's death from COVID vaccination...

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

"There are alot of people who have died from taking these COVID vaccines," Names, locations, scientific proof. You know, the usual stuff when you make allegations.

 

[eric2136]

Information and videos regarding proximate causation of Death Resulting From COVID vaccinations has already been posted in several places in this thread previously. If you want to dispute information already presented by me, regarding deaths linked to COVID vaccinations, then do so with scientific authoritative references, and I'll respond on a case by case basis, later, if I have time.

 

[gmase]

Your climate change position is very on point. It is the single largest risk humanity faces over the near term in my opinion. The risks from coronavirus and war can be mitigated and localized, respectively. [Assuming cooler military heads prevail. Not a foolproof assumption I know.]

Your vaccine argument has individual merits. On the whole though, some of the vaccines seem to be reasonable risks. Yes, examples of failures may exist, but successes seem to be more prevalent.

On any given day there are hundreds of examples of why driving a car is a bad idea. It does not stop many from driving.

 

[gmase]

If vaccines are bad, what is the other option?

We can social distance, mask up, etc., but those mitigants have their limits. This is a very much a no-win situation. Getting COVID probably has long-term effects. I read John Barry’s book about the 1918 epidemic and he discusses health and mental issues arising a decade later.

I found this as well (cant post a book!):
https://gero.usc.edu/2020/12/08/century-covid-pandemic-risk/

(Fair warning: I generally do not watch videos.)

 

[eric2136]

Thanks for your feedback. I'm not passing judgement on vaccines. There are a number of alternative medicinal options available, along with some of the standard protocols which you mentioned. I'm not going to list any specific info, because it will be attacked and attempts will be made to dis-credit anyone who lists any alternatives to vaccines.

There is no substitute for the time necessary to judge the long term effects of these COVID vaccines. But there is a lot of info about these vaccines that I'm not even going to discuss here because it would be counter-productive. But in general. I would re-iterate to be extremely cautious in what you put in your body. And again, if a drug manufacturer attempts to avoid liability for injuries resulting from the vaccines they manufacture, then that should be a red flag to you, and definitely influential in you decision making process.

 

[eric2136]

Also, I will briefly mention this capital riot false flag event. But I'm not going to over-analyze it because it's just so ridiculous. There is no way a bunch of poorly armed neo-nazi nuts can take over America by storming the capital. The military would wipe them out in 10 seconds. Its just another Illuminati staged ploy. The complicit pawn capitol officers commit suicide to cover the tracks of their treasonous acts and the acts of their demonic superiors.

Just more distractions to keep your attention off what is happening in the real world. Remember, destruction of the natural environment is part of the Satanic agenda, So if your chosen political representatives are not making themselves part of the solution, then they are part of the problem.

 

[seamanmonkey]

I suppose he is a threat to national security, giving out the secrets, so it was inevitable what would happen, but fair play to him for sacrificing himself

 

[xfire]

 

[gmase]

Also, I will briefly mention this capital riot false flag event. But I'm not going to over-analyze it because it's just so ridiculous. There is no way a bunch of poorly armed neo-nazi nuts can take over America by storming the capital. The military would wipe them out in 10 seconds. Its just another Illuminati staged ploy. The complicit pawn capitol officers commit suicide to cover the tracks of their treasonous acts and the acts of their demonic superiors.

The preponderance of the evidence suggests who did it. Those who did it have made their beliefs very well known.

Why even try to call it a false flag at this point? Americans have shown their apathy toward these wayward tourists taking social media pictures on the Capitol. No need to shift blame.

Who are the ‘Illuminati’? Where do these mysterious overlords live? How do they plan such elaborate schemes without detection? Only a select few seem to be onto their intrigues. I want in on the action.