Dungeons and Dragons... 3.5 vs. 4.0

Noel_Cypress

Official Checked Star Member
So here's been an argument that's been going on since the release of 4.0... And I would love to hear some of your guys's opinions!

4.0 or 3.5? I'm personally a 3.5, but more for a personal grudge than anything. I remember having a Forgotten Realms campaign during 3.5 reign and I had to roleplay for 6 months a side quest in order to be reborn as a dragon-born... when I opened the 4.0 book i nearly burned it when I found out dragon-born had been made a starter race.

Also...skills in 4.0 make my skin crawl. The extensive list that 3.5 had made things make much more sense. A dwarf can have high strength, but low climbing skills due to its racial upbringing... in 4.0, they just got lazy and decided to throw both of those including other skills together into one base category called "dungeon mastering" or some bullshit and say "DERP, THIS PERSON GETS THIS AMOUNT OF SKILL POINTS OR ALLLLL" :brick:
.... yeah... sooo doesn't make sense in my thoughts.

Anyone else? Will anyone take up the plate and try making this gal attempt to enjoy a 4.0 game? :p :cthulhu:
 
Well ehm .. still using 2nd edition but with our own enhancments (dm approved hehe) here, but as group we might get into 3.5, and who knows what that brings.

Personally what I saw on games based on 4.0 it's ehm kinda dumbed down I think. But then I have to admit I havent looked at the book yet.
 

Petra

Cult Mother and Simpering Cunt
I tried a one shot of 4.0 when it came out, it's not for me. Actually, I haven't touched a d20 in a few years now...

Non-d20 systems FTW!!

FYI, here's our gaming thread http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=480033

I'm about to start a Savaged Freeport game (A savage worlds setting for Green Ronin's Freeport) on Friday. It'll be a low magic game with some steam punk thrown in. I've had the Guide to Freeport for a few years now and finally get to run it! So I'm a tad excited.

I also play in a Vampire the Masquerade game and run one as well.

Yup, non-d20 is the way to go. ;-)
 
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Noel_Cypress

Official Checked Star Member
as far as non-d20 go, I've only really done Vampire: The Masquerade . Verrryy fun game. Played a Nosferatu that was of course bat shit insane. Tried larping in the same world and had quite a bit of fun with that as well. :p
 
I'm a Pathfinder fan which is the spiritual and mechanical successor to D&D 3.5, (some even think of it as 3.75 and some even think of it as the "true" D&D rather than 4th edition because it keeps the feel and a lot of other important aspects that have been around since D&D began that 4th edition cut loose.) and is for the most part largely backwards compatible to 3.5, although some adjustments do need to be made. Not having to discard the hardcover books that Wizards produced for D&D 3.0 and 3.5 which I probably have over 90% of them to the bookshelf never to be opened again was a nice bonus. Pathfinder adventure path and single adventure stuff blows away what D&D puts out on top of that in my opinion.

To say there is a pretty big schism that has developed between the former 3rd edition and D&D fans between the two role playing games would be an understatement. It might be about even or a 45/55 split based on anecdotal evidence I have seen with Pathfinder gaining on D&D as time goes on. Some things have even suggested they are ahead, which a few years ago was almost unthinkable that D&D would be seriously challenged as the most popular tabletop RPG. Of course D&D still has name recognition over Pathfinder,...for now.

My biggest problem with 4th edition is that it's moved further along to be almost a video game in disguise played on a table top format and dumbed down to try to cash in on a younger hipper crowd and to stave off declining interest in table top games (I can almost visualize somebody repeatedly using at will powers and second winds like they are mashing the buttons on the World of Warcraft mmo :1orglaugh Don't even get me started on things that work like taunts in 4th edition.), every character basically seems a lot more the same thing with mostly the same abilities with fluff explaining the difference so they could keep things even in the name of balance, they traded simulationism and verisimilitude for way too much gamism which is why it feels a lot more like a video game and it gets hard to suspend disbelief in it, and the skills system and they way they tell you to challenge the players with it sucks in my opinion. Creativity with ability and skills is one thing, but just letting players come up with the half-baked things to make a skill challenge work with nearly any skill seems silly. They combined too many skills to.

I don't mind d20 games. It's probably all around the best system. The biggest problem I think it has is if one is not careful in designing the game at high levels the variance of the roll can mean a lot less since the amount of the potential d20 roll isn't as much anymore compared to what ranks of attacks and skills are up to at that point. I think d20 allows the greatest amount of modification and addition in the best way, even if it's not always the easiest or simplest one to it with. It's also probably not the best system if the people playing the game like a more bell curve distribution of rolls instead of the linear one d20 has.
 

squallumz

knows petras secret: she farted.
the only d&d experience ive had is in 4e.

i bought the redbox starter set a few months ago and it created a monster.

http://wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/244660000

(of course, by now i have copies of the players manual, a couple monster manuals, the dm guide, a paizo flipmat, and a couple minis, and even constructed my own minis and 3d dungeon tiles so ive outgrown the starter kit very fast. it is deigned to get you up to level 3 i think.)


ive done hours and hours of reading on the subject of 3.5 vs 4e and i think it just comes down to how you play the game.

the biggest issue ive seen is this: ive been learning 4e for awhile now. now, if they came out with a 4.5 or 5e soon, id be pissed. id think, fuck now i have to learn all these new rules and everything i know is no good anymore. id honestly be pissed.

i dont blame people there. id feel the same way. in fact, im worried about that.

personally, i think, d&d, whatever version you do play, all comes down to your gaming style.

people complain that there's no story in 4e, no role playing. but... isnt that all up the the players and DM?

its fair to say 4e has been designed to be easy to jump into and start playing right away. simplified rules makes combat easy and faster. but its just an introduction.

if you want heavy roleplaying, design the game that way! the rules arent really solid RULES. they are meant to be fudged, otherwise, there would be no such thing as a DM screen so he/she can fudge rolls. i really dont see what the big deal is. if you want a story, make a story. u can play it like vampire. why not?

i mean really, why not?

put the work into the role playing aspect if thats what u want. of course, i speak as a DM and a player. so combat is easy, is that a bad thing? make it harder if you want. face huge monsters that could kill you instead of hordes of minions. negotiate with monsters instead of rushing into battle. they have languages for a reason.

honestly, besides the fact that your version changed on you, it really comes down to how each player handles the game. some people like dungeons crawls with tons of combat, and some like the story. you are limited by your imagination alone.
 

Petra

Cult Mother and Simpering Cunt
as far as non-d20 go, I've only really done Vampire: The Masquerade . Verrryy fun game. Played a Nosferatu that was of course bat shit insane. Tried larping in the same world and had quite a bit of fun with that as well. :p

I'm currently playing a Tremere who's up for Regent. I don't think she's going to survive much longer since she has her fingers in too many pies.

The main reason I'm fairly anti-d20 these days is I just got burned out. The last 3.5 campaign I played in, the DM allowed us to use any race, class, and prestige class Wizards had ever made. It took freakin hours to make a character and that's not even counting a character background!

And as a DM myself, the amount of books you drag around with you when you're playing D&D is insane. When I was introduced to the simplicity of Savage Worlds (you need 2 books, the core book and the setting book IF you're the DM) I was hooked.

I used to DM at a monthly meet in Amsterdam before I found myself as a busy DM of 2 game groups, and I introduced a lot of folks to SW. They were up and running in minutes.

Even the guy's girlfriend who had never seen a d4 in her life was playing, without having to be prompted by the rest of the group, in about an hour. I've never seen that with D&D. The big numbers, modifiers, and loads of rules are intimidating to people who've never seen a character sheet in their life...

Of course another game I like running is Paranoia. Mostly because there aren't any rules...it's the DM doing whatever the hell they like for a laugh.
 

squallumz

knows petras secret: she farted.
That is right.
9.jpg

:dunno:
 

Petra

Cult Mother and Simpering Cunt

squallumz

knows petras secret: she farted.
[B][URL="https://www.freeones.com/petra said:
Petra[/URL][/B], post: 5891832, member: 114093"]He was doing something naughty.

:1orglaugh i suppose he was.

tsk tsk.
 

Noel_Cypress

Official Checked Star Member
I'm currently playing a Tremere who's up for Regent. I don't think she's going to survive much longer since she has her fingers in too many pies.

The main reason I'm fairly anti-d20 these days is I just got burned out. The last 3.5 campaign I played in, the DM allowed us to use any race, class, and prestige class Wizards had ever made. It took freakin hours to make a character and that's not even counting a character background!

And as a DM myself, the amount of books you drag around with you when you're playing D&D is insane. When I was introduced to the simplicity of Savage Worlds (you need 2 books, the core book and the setting book IF you're the DM) I was hooked.

I used to DM at a monthly meet in Amsterdam before I found myself as a busy DM of 2 game groups, and I introduced a lot of folks to SW. They were up and running in minutes.

Even the guy's girlfriend who had never seen a d4 in her life was playing, without having to be prompted by the rest of the group, in about an hour. I've never seen that with D&D. The big numbers, modifiers, and loads of rules are intimidating to people who've never seen a character sheet in their life...

Of course another game I like running is Paranoia. Mostly because there aren't any rules...it's the DM doing whatever the hell they like for a laugh.

see... being the excessive book nerd that I am, I adore having a crap ton of history and rules to my games. I'm the chick who doesn't want to stop playing monopoly because I find the further in you go, the more you have to REALLLLLY think to win.
I usually just buy PDFs rather than buy the books. That way I can put them all in my tiny little netbook and OFF I GO TO FAERUN!
I was about to dm a game once, but decided to do a BESM spin off called "Big Ears Small Mouse" which was pretty much a childrens version of BESM. Very cute and simplified, but TOO simplified for me. As DM I started fucking with my players and having rats mateing with cats and making she-beasts that would run rampant in the streets in the middle of the night :3

But yeah, Faerun is EXTREMELY hard to understand at times... But that's honestly why i adore it so much (3.5 version, that is) Because once I get into a group who takes the game and really gets into it, I've found a group of people who understand so much about this world I can roleplay to my desires. We have political discussions, stern rules, and area-specific quests.
Like I said, in one game I played, I had to actively role play out 6 months worth of my character devoting herself to the dragons and being reborn as a dragon born. I had to sit out two weeks worth of game (but still come to game) because my body was incubating in its dragon scale egg. Yall may think that sounds boring as shit... i found it FUN AS HELLLLLLL

I remember one Faerun game, my DM made a single simple mistake - which was giving us a vague statement given by an old PC of his (NPC in this game) which said he'd do us a favor if we finished a quest for him...
My druid had a bison animal companion... We ended up with a permanantly enlarged bison, who learned how to fly, was awokened permanantly, and was now leveling in Fighter class. we had an INTELLIGENT APPA (airbender)
Soooo after that our DM was reaaalllly strict and worded his shit wisely so we'd never be able to take advantage of that again. XD
 
(I just thought of something else I really don't like about 4th ed, the way they do diagonal movement.)

I don't think she's going to survive much longer since she has her fingers in too many pies.

Heh...fingers in too many pies. I have to admit it's hard to not have a little laugh at hearing that statement. :1orglaugh :tongue:
 

Petra

Cult Mother and Simpering Cunt
(I just thought of something else I really don't like about 4th ed, the way they do diagonal movement.)



Heh...fingers in too many pies. I have to admit it's hard to not have a little laugh at hearing that statement. :1orglaugh :tongue:

The other characters thinks she's a virgin since she was made vampire at age 16 or 17...I should mention she's a hindi. :1orglaugh
 

Petra

Cult Mother and Simpering Cunt
ROFL. did she loose too much humanity orrr....?

Actually, she's a 7 humanity right now. I'm trying to drop her down so I can put her on a path but for the life of me I keep making the difficulties.

You'd have loved the session I ran yesterday though.

For months now I've been fucking with the players when it comes to fey. I run the fey from the new Changeling so they've been through the hedge a few times (the original timeline was 201BC in Carthage but they've migrated to Greece...guess they got tired of the Baali).

All of my fey have violet eyes. After a few incidents, the characters holed up in this little nameless village. They went to go into the village and it not only doubled size in a day, but there were armed villagers that wouldn't let them enter until they introduced themselves to the prince.

They all passes alertness rolls and noticed the prince's eyes went from brilliant blue to shades of purple in the shadows. This instantly freaked them out and they cut the introductions short and boogied on out.

They then decided to get out of dodge, but not before theorizing how the town doubled in size. :1orglaugh It's either the fey, or a mage.

They decided then to leave town, except the prince wouldn't let them leave. It appeared she was popping in and out of existence and was "doing things" to them...

The players still think she's a fey, but she's an 8th gen malkie that's fey touched (she fed on the fey, but she couldn't get anymore bat shit nuts so only her eyes changed). She's incredibly delusional and thinks everything in her "domain" is hers...including strangers that wander into her "city". :rofl2:

She was using obfuscate and dementate plus celerity to get around...she hit 3 of them pretty hard with the various dementate powers.

After the other 2 players decided to stay in town and they all ended up back at her mansion where the one hit the hardest tried to kill the malkavian in the group (there was tension to begin with..doesn't take much to aggravate that relationship). The tremere (long story how he got to that time, but he had a run in with Brujha) tried setting the malkie on fire and then drained his blood.

This didn't kill the malkie but put him in torpor. Downside...the malkie's humanity is 4.

Characters never auspexed the prince so they still think she's a fey.

God I love it.
 

Noel_Cypress

Official Checked Star Member
actually, she's a 7 humanity right now. I'm trying to drop her down so i can put her on a path but for the life of me i keep making the difficulties.

You'd have loved the session i ran yesterday though.

For months now i've been fucking with the players when it comes to fey. I run the fey from the new changeling so they've been through the hedge a few times (the original timeline was 201bc in carthage but they've migrated to greece...guess they got tired of the baali).

All of my fey have violet eyes. After a few incidents, the characters holed up in this little nameless village. They went to go into the village and it not only doubled size in a day, but there were armed villagers that wouldn't let them enter until they introduced themselves to the prince.

They all passes alertness rolls and noticed the prince's eyes went from brilliant blue to shades of purple in the shadows. This instantly freaked them out and they cut the introductions short and boogied on out.

They then decided to get out of dodge, but not before theorizing how the town doubled in size. :1orglaugh it's either the fey, or a mage.

They decided then to leave town, except the prince wouldn't let them leave. It appeared she was popping in and out of existence and was "doing things" to them...

The players still think she's a fey, but she's an 8th gen malkie that's fey touched (she fed on the fey, but she couldn't get anymore bat shit nuts so only her eyes changed). She's incredibly delusional and thinks everything in her "domain" is hers...including strangers that wander into her "city". :rofl2:

She was using obfuscate and dementate plus celerity to get around...she hit 3 of them pretty hard with the various dementate powers.

After the other 2 players decided to stay in town and they all ended up back at her mansion where the one hit the hardest tried to kill the malkavian in the group (there was tension to begin with..doesn't take much to aggravate that relationship). The tremere (long story how he got to that time, but he had a run in with brujha) tried setting the malkie on fire and then drained his blood.

This didn't kill the malkie but put him in torpor. Downside...the malkie's humanity is 4.

Characters never auspexed the prince so they still think she's a fey.

God i love it.

i want in this game xd
 

Petra

Cult Mother and Simpering Cunt
Figure out how to move to the Netherlands and you're welcome in the game. ;-)
 
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