Do you believe in God?

Do you believe in God?

  • Yes

    Votes: 57 56.4%
  • No

    Votes: 44 43.6%

  • Total voters
    101

Summer

Banned
hinddee29 said:
I've asked this question and never really got an answer. Ok during the 7 days he made earth. One of those days he made man. As far as I know man wasn't around when the dinosaurs where right. So how where they here
hinddee29
he made the earth and man in 7 days yes so how do they account for the 65million year gap between mankind and dinosaurs???

exactly!!!

thanks for that qoute from the bible hinddee, i forgot about that one, proves a much bigger point

Summer said:
thats what i think, i believe that religions are more like Philosophy 's
God created man in his own image, really then wtf did he create dinosaurs from then??and what was he on????
his cousin geoff!!
And opium!!
dirtydawg said:
are u serious? im goign to try real hard not to flame here, but that is perhaps the most incoherent and misconstrued philosophical logic that i have heard in a long time.
At what point was that a philosophical remark, it was merely a jokey comment
 

QBall1970

Banned
I don't even know what to say or how to say to say it without pissing people off. So... I'll be impartial. READ ON - it's a long post.

Creationism versus Evolutionism has been a raging debate for many, many years now.

Believers - Christians, if you prefer - have faith in the Word. That is, the Word Of God. The Creator. The great I AM.

Evolutionists - Darwinians, if you prefer - is based upon a rational scientific approach to the question of our existence. In its very essence: only the strongest will survive. The natural order of selection.

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There is a difference between Darwinism and Creationism, one is based on data and the other is based on belief. Darwinism concerns itself as a science, that is explained by scientific methodology. Biological evolution concerns changes in living things during the history of life on earth. It explains that living things share common ancestors and over time evolutionary change gives rise to new species. On the other hand, the ideas of creation science is derived from the conviction of most Abrahemic religions that God created the universe-including humans and other living things-all at once in the relatively recent past. Creationists say that creatures started out as distinct and separate organisms when God created them and they do not believe that organisms change into complete differently and distinct animals through evolution. For example, Creationists do not believe that single-celled organisms evolved into more complex plants and animals, finally evolving into Homo Sapiens. Even though creationism is not a scientific theory, Creationists are using scientific evidence in supporting their argument that Darwinism can not be proven scientifically based on the fact that Darwinism goes against creationism. Besides criticizing evolution, Creationists are seeking scientific evidence of their own, to support the creation account in Genesis. They only problem with this is that Creationists are crossing the boundaries between religion and science by trying to entwine these two origins which isn't an effective pairing because religion doesn't require proof but science does. Scientists are now doing the same because at first they were staying into their own realm but it after posing that the theory of evolution can be scientifically proven, scientists are going against the Bible. Therefore, scientists are also crossing the boundary.

Creation science, which is a belief that God created the Earth and all the creatures in it, is not science because creation by God or another divinity does not give concrete scientific explanation of life's origin. Rather, it is an explanation consistent with their beliefs that an intelligent creator, God, exists and created the universe. Creationists try to verify this concept and other Biblical stories by evaluating on scientific grounds. Geologists, for instance, used to try to explain all the earth's geological features in terms of Noah's Flood.

It has been said that no book other than the Bible has had a greater effect on Western society than Charles Darwin's Origin of Species. Darwin was famous for his theories of evolution and natural selection, which became known as Darwinism. Today evolution is known as the "changing of simple life forms to higher life forms as theorized by Darwin." (1). Darwin used the word "evolution" for the first time to discuss the development of change and adaptation within a species rather than the individual. Some people confuse Darwinism with evolution. Darwinism is simply Charles Darwin's proposal for the methods by which natural processes cause the evolution of the species. Darwin was the first to document the idea of evolution and proposed a theory, natural selection, to explain the mechanism of evolution. He presented the idea that evolution worked by natural selection. Natural selection theory states that "evolutionary change comes through the abundant production of genetic variation in every generation. The relatively few individuals who survive, owing to a well developed combination of inheritable characteristics, give rise to the next generation." (2). People who literally interpret the Bible say that Darwinism goes against the concept that God created the earth. The theory of evolution is a product of the scientific method. The scientific method is the process by which scientists, collectively and over time, endeavor to construct an accurate representation of the world.

The theory of Darwinism relies on scientific evidence. Darwin's theory stated that evolution could change one type of organism into another. Darwin did not have a clear understanding of the laws of inheritance of such traits, because an Austrian monk, Gregor Mendel, discovered them only a few years earlier. In the 1900's, geneticists incorporated Mendel's four laws of inheritance into Darwin's theory of evolution. They called this new theory, neo-Darwinism, in which the individual units of inheritance were generation to generation. Mendel's laws of inheritance only explain microevolution, such as natural or domestic breeding of desirable changes or variations within plant and animal species.

Darwin's theories of man's evolution out of lower species challenged the nineteenth century belief on two grounds. First, the theory of evolution is crossing the border line of faith and science by emphasizes that species changed over time, which called into question the creation story of the Bible, which stated that God created the world in seven days and man was created on the last day. "The Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (Genesis 2.7). Darwin's theory went against this by saying that humans evolved from monkeys in a process that took far longer than a day.

Finally, Darwin added another piece to the theory that was devastating to traditional belief: the notion of natural selection. Natural selection states "species produced random variations and that only those beings whose characteristics that allow them to survive and reproduce can live a long life." (3). The natural selection process argues against any form of the divine plan known as moral divinity. Moral divinity states that God controls everything and by accepting God into your life, you will live a long life in the path of the Lord. Therefore, your morality and faith in God shapes your life. However, natural selection says that your genetic characteristics allows you to have a long life and also determines your success or failure in life. I agree with moral divinity because when people have faith in a supernatural power, they try to achieve their goals in life and by live their life the best way that they can. This case isn't always true for everyone but by having an established guideline for themselves people tend to value their life to a higher degree. Even though moral divinity doesn't guarantee you with long life, whenever someone dies some people believe that are living a longer and better life in Heaven. Just like moral divinity, natural selection doesn't guarantee you a long life because your genetic characteristics can't stop you from dying from aids or dying from a heart attack.

Creationists are among the harshest critics on the theory of evolution. They have been instrumental in pointing out weakness in the scientific evidence. One argument made by supporters of creation science is that natural selection can produce minor changes within species but cannot generate new species from pre-existing species. Although there is plenty of evidence for adaptive changes (microevolution), we don't have scientific evidence to examine one species becoming an entirely different, more highly evolved organism. For example, there are no examples in records of fish becoming an amphibian or even bacteria evolving from something other than bacteria. However, evolutionary biologists have documented many cases to support Darwin's theory of evolution. Darwin's theory was supported when Othiel Charles Marsh discovered fossil records of extinct horses. The fact that larger horses were better able to survive than small many-toed horses supported the idea of natural selection.

In response to Creationist, evolutionists say that evolution relates to the second law of thermodynamics by making the argument that order can come from disorder in nature. "Every exchange in nature that takes place spontaneously always results in a loss of order. Natural selection always occurs in such a way that the complex tends to become less complex, order states tend to become disorder. Therefore, the universe is constantly becoming more disorder." (4).

Darwinism as science differs from creationism, which is faith and religion. Science is a way of knowing about the natural world. It is limited to explaining the natural world through natural cause. Science can say nothing about the supernatural. Whether God exists or not is a question about which science is neutral. For years, some creationists have been against the theory of evolution and have tried to present scientific evidence to show that the theory is wrong. This debate will continue until some can prove that Darwinism is correct with scientific evidence or even prove that Creationism is accurate by scientific evidence, too. But until that time, people should be given the decision to choose which origin that they want to accept.
 

QBall1970

Banned
What you read above is just a small portion of my dissertation / thesis while I was in the Lutheran Seminary. Unfortunately, I never finished it as I soon left the Seminary not long after I started this project. I've kept it through the years, though, just to maintain a connection to that past.

To each his own...

No one disputes that basic premise. Believe what you feel you must believe. Plain and simple. If you choose to refute the existence of God or any other Supreme Being, then that is your choice... and I respect your choice. I will not judge you nor will I cast ridicule at your feet.

We should all be considerate of each other's core beliefs and moral guides.
 

dirtydawg

Banned
Summer said:
LOL, well it collosions in space happen all the time, jupiter had a massive rock hit it a few years ago, thankfully it was tiny compared to the size of the planet, but that would hav wiped us out if it hit earth, i think its called chance, and it happens every so often, ask the dinosaurs. :tongue:
so what your sayin is that god created the earth and put dinosaurs on it, didnt like them and thought f00k them, i'll wipe them out wit a massive asteroid, then for 65million years (i dont know the real number i just made this up but probably close thou) he twiddled his thumbs for that millions of years then suddenly created the human race. but if god did create everything we know today who created god? someone must have put him there??
For me there's just to much evidence in science to much fact, i'm with the whole evolution thing, we started as fish all that stuff.
Is there only one god? what about other religions and there gods? where is god today?why is there so much suffering in the world today?
so many questions yet very little answers. don't get me wrong i'm not against religion, i just feel that there ideals for people to live with, a sorta guidline for there life to be lived by so to speak


I m getting frustrated, not at peoples lack of understanding so much as what i feel is my inability to communicate my theory on this topic. im not saying that it is unlikely that two things crash in space. look wayyyy bigger than that...im talking like, where did these two original rocks come from, where did space come from, and why? MY belief is that god gave us skills that are supposed to guide us through life, such as logic, and the ability to communicate this logic with each other. While i do generally believe in the bible, its message has been so misconstrued over the years that i hardly feel any of it provides solid evidence towards god's existence. but somehting had to spark EVERYTHING...the universe, and the only logic explanation i can up for with that is that it had to be something, something that we can't understand, something not only bigger than us and more complex, but something on a truely different level. i have no idea what point ur trying to make by returning to ur dinosaur arguement over and over. this might get a little off topic, but u have to remember that if there is an all powerful god, he could have created the universe 3 minutes ago, and created all of us just as we are, with memories that date back long ago, and with dinosaur fossils in the ground that show the age of dinosaur bones that 65 million years old. I am not at all claiming this is the case however, just something to think about. even if god did just create the universe a moment ago, we have to beleive that for some reason or another he wanted us to believe that it was created billions of years ago. anyways i gotta go to a party and before i go i gotta look at the new pics of puredee in her thread, but i got a feelign i ';ll be coming back to this thread,
 

Summer

Banned
think i understand what ur tryin to get over, but that means that last post was just a memory and i didnt write it, if it was 3 mins ago that he created us. ;) lol
its that old question what came first the chicken or th egg, but in this sense god or space (world) coz the universe must first have been created before god was around or the other way round but god had to be created first in order for him 2 exist and if a universe didnt exist how could he exist its a whole (question mark) dont think we will ever know
the point i was making with the dinosaurs, is that they where here before man, yet god created then world then man within 7 days,yet no mention of dinosaurs.
there's an interesting programme on c4 (UK) on xmas day all about who wrote the bible, was it the word of god, scribes or just proaganda, its gunna be interesting watch so i'll be tuned in
 
Hey Q, that's some great writing there! Thank you so much for that contribution!!!! :nanner: :glugglug:
 
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