Despite minimum wage hike, Seattle's economy is flourishing

Seattle proves a $13 minimum wage doesn’t necessarily kill jobs


More evidence that America’s minimum wage could be much higher: Seattle has one of the highest minimum wage rates in the country, and new research finds it hasn’t destroyed jobs.

The incredibly affluent, liberal Northwestern city is pushing the minimum wage envelope, with the mandated hourly rates rising to as high as $13 an hour in January 2016 and $15 an hour being phased in with large employers this year, per a 2014 City Council vote for a series of increases over a few years. That’s made Seattle a real-time experiment showing how high minimum wages can go without resulting in job losses.

In a new paper, University of California, Berkeley economists analyzed the impact of the change on Seattle’s fast-food workers in 2015 and 2016. They found the increase not only boosted weekly wages (if employers cut hours in response to higher minimum wages, it could potentially lower earnings) but also, more importantly, it didn’t kill jobs. “These findings of no significant disemployment effect of minimum wages up to $13 significantly extend the minimum wage range studied in the previous literature,” the authors wrote.

It’s important to note that the Berkeley paper — prepared at the behest of the office of Seattle’s mayor — looks at the number of jobs and finds no evidence of job loss. But economists at the University of Washington also looked at the situation in Seattle and reported in a July 2016 paper that they found a slight negative impact on the number of hours worked. (It’s not necessarily a bad thing if your income goes up as you’re working less.)
That University of Washington paper also noted that while Seattle’s low-wage workers have done well since the minimum wage laws went into effect, employment rates for those workers could have been roughly 1 percentage point higher without minimum wage increases. But even the University of Washington paper describes negative impacts of the minimum wage increase on hours and employment as “modest.”

The federally mandated minimum wage flatlined at $7.25 in 2009
. (And adjusted for inflation it’s much lower than that now.) The Washington Center for Equitable Growth estimates that the state average minimum wage in 2016 was $8.21.
But in recent years liberal state, county, and city governments — Seattle, Portland, Santa Fe, Oakland, San Francisco — have enacted a flurry of minimum wage hikes that, in many cases, raise the pay floor to levels that are high enough to impact a much bigger share of area workers than ever before.

These hikes are fertile ground for economists who use changes in local law as natural experiments that allow them to study the impact of lifting minimum wages. And reports on those impacts become ammunition in the politicized debate over minimum wages that has been reinvigorated as groups such as Fight for $15 pushed the case for wage hikes in recent years.

Once upon a time, economists theorized that when you raise the price of anything, you automatically get less of it. That went for wages — the price of labor — too, meaning any effort to raise minimum wages would automatically destroy jobs.
Then economists actually started looking at the numbers in a series of groundbreaking papers that used natural experiments in which one state or locality raised minimum wages and others nearby didn’t. They found that, despite decades of theorizing, there was no ironclad rule that higher minimum wages always killed jobs. Today, economists mostly think that minimum wage increases can be beneficial for workers. However, they stress that there is some unknown ceiling after which they will be counterproductive, kill jobs, and hurt the lower-wage workers they’re trying to help.
But how high is too high? That’s where Seattle and other places are breaking new ground.

For the record, the fact that Seattle hasn’t seen job losses with high minimum wages doesn’t mean that $13 minimum wages would work for every city
. Seattle is a very expensive, affluent place, and is much better positioned to absorb higher prices than, say, rural Ohio.
And it’s possible that Seattle’s booming economy could be insulating the area from negative effects of minimum wage hikes. Or theoretically, Seattle might be booming even more without high minimum wages. That said, Seattle’s experience is another bit of proof that it’s just not true that higher minimum wages automatically destroy jobs.
https://news.vice.com/story/seattle-proves-a-13-minimum-wage-doesnt-necessarily-kill-jobs

Put your money where your mouth is : Give more money to low-income workers, and they will buy food, furnitures, cars, etc. Give more money to the top 1% and they will put it on a bank account on the Cayman Islands.
 
https://news.vice.com/story/seattle-proves-a-13-minimum-wage-doesnt-necessarily-kill-jobs

Put your money where your mouth is : Give more money to low-income workers, and they will buy food, furnitures, cars, etc. Give more money to the top 1% and they will put it on a bank account on the Cayman Islands.

So the author admits that Seattle's economy could be doing better without the higher mandated wages..

Essentially the whole argument is null and void.

Have you thought for just one minute that maybe the influx of new cash into the economy by these new higher minimum wage jobs is short term until it effects the companies forced to pay them?

Of course you didn't. Because you're a leftwing idiot.

Take Boeing out of Seattle and watch how quickly it becomes Detroit.

YSFSEABOD
 
So the author admits that Seattle's economy could be doing better without the higher mandated wages..

Essentially the whole argument is null and void.

He admits it coud be doing better, not that it would.
Maybe it would do better, maybe it would do worse, who knows for sure ?

Have you thought for just one minute that maybe the influx of new cash into the economy by these new higher minimum wage jobs is short term until it effects the companies forced to pay them?

Of course you didn't. Because you're a leftwing idiot.
Maybe. Or maybe not.
The only thing the author says is that the study proives that minimum wage hike hasn't caused Seattle to lose jobs, that it doesn't necessarily kill jobs. Still, the Right likes to tell people that raising the minimum waige would kill jobs. Seattle proves that things are not that simple, that this statement isn't 100% accurate.
 
Seattle is a fucked up anomaly. It's called the Emerald City (soon to be Amazonia) because 90% of it's residents live in the land of Oz and are high on poppy flowers.
 
Seattle is a fucked up anomaly. It's called the Emerald City (soon to be Amazonia) because 90% of it's residents live in the land of Oz and are high on poppy flowers.
Seattle is an anomaly ? You mean, like NYC and California ?
And what about Connecticut, DC, Delaware, Maine, Vermont, Hawaï, Massaschusets, New Jersey, Oregon, North Carolina, Rhode Island and the whole state of Washington ? Aren't they anomalies as well ?
 

bobjustbob

Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
As this plan is rolled out, the higher wages were being paid to employees that are not getting company health care benefits. Pay for this stuff on your own and that extra money not only washes out you're raise but cuts into your consumer spending. Workers are only making more money to pay the health tax penalty. No more in their pockets.

Look at this in another way. I've been working for a company (over or under 500 employees) for 10 years. For the next 6 years my raises are no better or slightly better than some kid working part time without skills or experience. Pocket money for beer and pizza while mom and dad houses them. Is that fair to me? Pay for health care for people that are the healthiest and don't need it? OR being carried on their parent's health care? Justify this.
 
Seattle is an anomaly ? You mean, like NYC and California ?
And what about Connecticut, DC, Delaware, Maine, Vermont, Hawaï, Massaschusets, New Jersey, Oregon, North Carolina, Rhode Island and the whole state of Washington ? Aren't they anomalies as well ?

I guess you can ask former cashiers at McDonalds though. $15 an hour? How about $0 an hour? Like the article states, Seattle is a very affluent community and businesses that can pass off higher costs to their consumers will. But in Seattle for instance $15 is not even close to a livable wage, nor is $18 an hour. Rent has skyrocketed ala San Francisco thanks in large part to Amazon. So why be cruel and pay workers what they can't even live off of? $30 an hour is a fair minimum livable wage. Pay your baristas that you greedy bastards.

People should have minimum cars too. No one should be driving around in an early 90's Geo Metro.
 
https://news.vice.com/story/seattle-proves-a-13-minimum-wage-doesnt-necessarily-kill-jobs

Put your money where your mouth is : Give more money to low-income workers, and they will buy food, furnitures, cars, etc. Give more money to the top 1% and they will put it on a bank account on the Cayman Islands.

I'm not at all surprised by these findings. But it's important to remember that everything we've been taught about the minimum wage is a theory. The theory being that raising the minimum wage leads to job loss. This is what I was taught when I was studying for my finance degree in college. But even though it's a theory, that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. Until now we've never had a large enough experiment where we could put the theory to test. In actuality it's a mixed bag when it comes to what happens when you raise the minimum wage. You can raise the minimum wage and have both positive and negative affects. It's not black and white. Raising the minimum wage could lead employers to raise prices. Or it could lead them to cutting jobs to offset costs. On the other hand, if you pay an employee a better wage he's more likely to stay on the job and this would reduce turnover thus saving the company $ in training costs. Or if you believe in efficiency wages, then raising the minimum wage will produce a more loyal and hard-working employee. Basically, it's up to the employer and every employer is different. There's a number of different ways they can respond to a minimum wage hike and despite what everyone says not every option involves massive unemployment
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
Johan, I don't know if you have your "Ignore-List" active, I advise to put some of the usual suspects on it, too. At some point, they just put out so much noise it's nic to silence them.
 

Luxman

#TRE45ON
CUCK:

A word used by White Supremacists to solicit sex. Because they believe people whom they call cucks would want to fuck them. White Supremacists have no preference whether to be fucked by a flesh penis or a plus-sized strap-on, but black leather is mandatory.

The term was popularized during the 2016 Republican primary, when the repressed hormones of many White Supremacists spilled over and started lusting after Jeb Bush in public. Their cries of cucks were filled with their desire to feel the girth of Jeb's old wrinkly shriveled up cock deeply lodged inside them. Like Jeb, conservatives were often viewed by White Supremacists' as the primary objects of their sexual release, hence the name cuckservatives. White Supremacist forums were often dominated by coded discussions of the different positions they want the so-called cuckservatives to screw them in.

Cuck itself is an onomatopoeia derived from the moaning sound white supremacists make while fantasizing about getting fucked. It is NOT, as some trolls suggests, derived from "cuckold" - a fantastical troll logic only horny White Supremacists would believe in.

Until White Supremacists find better ways to get people to fuck them, the word cuck serve as an important cultural clue to help us better understand the unwavering depth of their erotic desires. It is also recommended to report them for sexual harassment should they call you such a thing.
Fun Fact: 50 Shades of Grey is a book about the abusive and degrading fantasies of White Supremacists, it does not, as many falsely believes, have anything to do with the practice of actual BDSM communities (which are often respectful and consensual).
 

Luxman

#TRE45ON
Double Latte
 
CUCK:

A word used by White Supremacists to solicit sex. Because they believe people whom they call cucks would want to fuck them. White Supremacists have no preference whether to be fucked by a flesh penis or a plus-sized strap-on, but black leather is mandatory.

The term was popularized during the 2016 Republican primary, when the repressed hormones of many White Supremacists spilled over and started lusting after Jeb Bush in public. Their cries of cucks were filled with their desire to feel the girth of Jeb's old wrinkly shriveled up cock deeply lodged inside them. Like Jeb, conservatives were often viewed by White Supremacists' as the primary objects of their sexual release, hence the name cuckservatives. White Supremacist forums were often dominated by coded discussions of the different positions they want the so-called cuckservatives to screw them in.

Cuck itself is an onomatopoeia derived from the moaning sound white supremacists make while fantasizing about getting fucked. It is NOT, as some trolls suggests, derived from "cuckold" - a fantastical troll logic only horny White Supremacists would believe in.

Until White Supremacists find better ways to get people to fuck them, the word cuck serve as an important cultural clue to help us better understand the unwavering depth of their erotic desires. It is also recommended to report them for sexual harassment should they call you such a thing.
Fun Fact: 50 Shades of Grey is a book about the abusive and degrading fantasies of White Supremacists, it does not, as many falsely believes, have anything to do with the practice of actual BDSM communities (which are often respectful and consensual).

Cuck in here.
 
I'm not at all surprised by these findings. But it's important to remember that everything we've been taught about the minimum wage is a theory. The theory being that raising the minimum wage leads to job loss. This is what I was taught when I was studying for my finance degree in college. But even though it's a theory, that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. Until now we've never had a large enough experiment where we could put the theory to test. In actuality it's a mixed bag when it comes to what happens when you raise the minimum wage. You can raise the minimum wage and have both positive and negative affects. It's not black and white. Raising the minimum wage could lead employers to raise prices. Or it could lead them to cutting jobs to offset costs. On the other hand, if you pay an employee a better wage he's more likely to stay on the job and this would reduce turnover thus saving the company $ in training costs. Or if you believe in efficiency wages, then raising the minimum wage will produce a more loyal and hard-working employee. Basically, it's up to the employer and every employer is different. There's a number of different ways they can respond to a minimum wage hike and despite what everyone says not every option involves massive unemployment

Update
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...ether-a-15-minimum-wage-really-helps-workers/
 
So according to that study released earlier this week, Seattle raising the minimum wage has ended up hurting the very people it was purported to help. Thousands in Seattle have lost their jobs or had their hours cut.

But liberals mean well.
 
I'm not at all surprised by these findings. But it's important to remember that everything we've been taught about the minimum wage is a theory. The theory being that raising the minimum wage leads to job loss. This is what I was taught when I was studying for my finance degree in college. But even though it's a theory, that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. Until now we've never had a large enough experiment where we could put the theory to test. In actuality it's a mixed bag when it comes to what happens when you raise the minimum wage. You can raise the minimum wage and have both positive and negative affects. It's not black and white. Raising the minimum wage could lead employers to raise prices. Or it could lead them to cutting jobs to offset costs. On the other hand, if you pay an employee a better wage he's more likely to stay on the job and this would reduce turnover thus saving the company $ in training costs. Or if you believe in efficiency wages, then raising the minimum wage will produce a more loyal and hard-working employee. Basically, it's up to the employer and every employer is different. There's a number of different ways they can respond to a minimum wage hike and despite what everyone says not every option involves massive unemployment

Raising wages to reduce turnover or attract loyal or higher motivated employees is called the free market and is not the same as a government mandated minimum wage.
 

Rattrap

Doesn't feed trolls and would appreciate it if you
https://news.vice.com/story/seattle-proves-a-13-minimum-wage-doesnt-necessarily-kill-jobs

Put your money where your mouth is : Give more money to low-income workers, and they will buy food, furnitures, cars, etc. Give more money to the top 1% and they will put it on a bank account on the Cayman Islands.

Velocity of money. A theory in practical opposition to trickle down, but unlike trickle down, is grounded by historical evidence.

Justify this.
Okay:
...productivity grew 80.4 percent from 1973 to 2011, enough to generate large advances in living standards and wages if productivity gains were broadly shared. But there were three important “wedges” between that growth and the experience of American workers.

First, as shown in Figure B, average hourly compensation—which includes the pay of CEOs and day laborers alike—grew just 39.2 percent from 1973 to 2011, far lagging productivity growth.
http://www.epi.org/publication/ib330-productivity-vs-compensation/
(Read it before jumping on 'average hourly compensation' versus mimimum wage)

I'm not at all surprised by these findings. But it's important to remember that everything we've been taught about the minimum wage is a theory.
There is a cleverly obscured line where theory is pushing into the territory of propaganda. Trickle down is a great example - it is no doubt taught as a legitimate theory, but those in the business of wealth accumulation and their government counterparts push hard for people to believe in it - contrary to all evidence.

It's neoliberalism 101.

The theory being that raising the minimum wage leads to job loss. This is what I was taught when I was studying for my finance degree in college. But even though it's a theory, that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. Until now we've never had a large enough experiment where we could put the theory to test.
I'm surprised to hear you mention going for a finance degree and then mention that we've never had a large enough experiment - we've had lots.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...at-minimum-wage-hikes/?utm_term=.7d417f653e08

Scroll to the middle of the article to see the graph that lists the times the United States raised minimum wage and its effects on overall employment, hospitality/leisure employment, and retail - without any context, jobs go up a significant majority of the time with wage increases. The main times it didn't? 1982 and 2008/9. I wonder what happened then...

In actuality it's a mixed bag when it comes to what happens when you raise the minimum wage. You can raise the minimum wage and have both positive and negative affects. It's not black and white. Raising the minimum wage could lead employers to raise prices. Or it could lead them to cutting jobs to offset costs. On the other hand, if you pay an employee a better wage he's more likely to stay on the job and this would reduce turnover thus saving the company $ in training costs. Or if you believe in efficiency wages, then raising the minimum wage will produce a more loyal and hard-working employee. Basically, it's up to the employer and every employer is different. There's a number of different ways they can respond to a minimum wage hike and despite what everyone says not every option involves massive unemployment
You're right to say it's not black and white - but it isn't 50/50 either. Raising wages raises costs, of course - but there is now more money to buy whatever you're selling. And people at the bottom buy more, period.

The whole problem with cutting costs via labor - either with wages, automation, etc - is eventually nobody is left to buy your stuff (can robots buy hamburgers? Nope!). It's just not sustainable. But it looks like a solid plan to the first few businesses that do it, until the race to the bottom cuts out the consumer base.

Johan, I don't know if you have your "Ignore-List" active, I advise to put some of the usual suspects on it, too. At some point, they just put out so much noise it's nic to silence them.
I'd love some added features of making the posts not appear altogether, or the real holy grail of troll ignoring: Not show their threads at all.

The study, published as a working paper Monday by the National Bureau of Economic Research, has not yet been peer reviewed.
I'll wait, I guess.

Credit for the article (having used it above), and again, it's worth looking at: The canard that a higher wage means less jobs is empirically false. But then, there are those with heavily vested interests in keeping people believing it.
 
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