I find it odd that adults say this, quite a few of them seem to know what teachers are like in schools even though they haven't been taught by one in years. . .:dunno:
Unless you're a parent I guess. . .
College students aren't learning anything
- Thread starter Straight Shooter
- Start date
I find it odd that adults say this, quite a few of them seem to know what teachers are like in schools even though they haven't been taught by one in years. . .:dunno:
Unless you're a parent I guess. . .
You ain't kidding...there are allot of people nowadays who are mediocre (and worse) compared to their predecessors.
I have no problem paying teachers on a merit based system. The only problem is that's it's almost impossible to do it fairly. There are just a gigantic amount of variables that go into how students perform, and a lot of those are not remotely in the control of an individual teacher. That's makes it pretty much impossible to fairly create a way to judge who truly does a job well and who doesn't. It's just too practically impossible to devise a standardized system that can distinguish between good teachers put into very bad situations and teachers that aren't competent or just don't care. The opposite can happen also where bad teachers can game the system to look better than they are or teachers can just luck out and look better than they are. If you go away from a standardized testing system for teachers and just have a board or some other group of judges look at them then you get into the problem of people playing politics, corruption, people rewarding their friends, the judges or reviewers that don't understand the specific circumstances of each teacher has to work under, and a lot of other problems. Rewarding teachers based on how good they do their job would be great in an ideal world, but it's something that not even remotely practical, at least not on a fair level, in real life.
The problem with most institutions of "higher education" was they were out for the $$$ while society was out telling every kid they needed a degree. So the bar has been lowered to keep them in school to keep raking in the ca$h, and kids are graduating who are dumber than HS grads were a few decades ago.:2 cents:
Not really. You could do worse and attend SF State.
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Absolutely true. I'm appalled at the lack of organization and, quite honestly, the lack of any real ability to teach anyone anything that so many of my son's college teachers possess. Also, many of them seem lazy and closed-minded to the point where it would appear that their primary goal is to see to it that the student fails rather than succeeds.
This is true...well, sometimes. I know for a fact that the college teachers and professors where I attended my first two years of college had to meet a quota on the amount of students that passed their class vs. the amount that failed. Lets just say that it was much better for the teacher if 90% of the class failed rather than 90% of the class passed. I was told that if a significant majority of the class actually passed, the teacher of the course could be reprimanded for not doing their job. According to the university, if so many people passed a particular level course(i.e. first lvl to 4th lvl courses) then that teacher is obviously not following proper curriculum as their course is far too easy.
Didn't make any sense to me, but it also didn't help that a few teachers actually were not following proper curriculum and indeed made the class too easy. This happened about 4 times in the course of my two years being there. It seemed almost blatant in some instances. A damn monkey would know that something was up if all 120 students taking organic chemistry had at least a B- average.
This just goes back to what was said about some teachers being fucking lazy at the college level.I have seemed to have rambled on a bit, but hopefully someone got something out of it.
This is true...well, sometimes. I know for a fact that the college teachers and professors where I attended my first two years of college had to meet a quota on the amount of students that passed their class vs. the amount that failed. Lets just say that it was much better for the teacher if 90% of the class failed rather than 90% of the class passed. I was told that if a significant majority of the class actually passed, the teacher of the course could be reprimanded for not doing their job. According to the university, if so many people passed a particular level course(i.e. first lvl to 4th lvl courses) then that teacher is obviously not following proper curriculum as their course is far too easy.
Didn't make any sense to me, but it also didn't help that a few teachers actually were not following proper curriculum and indeed made the class too easy. This happened about 4 times in the course of my two years being there. It seemed almost blatant in some instances. A damn monkey would know that something was up if all 120 students taking organic chemistry had at least a B- average.
I have seemed to have rambled on a bit, but hopefully someone got something out of it.
agreed on all counts :yesyes:
Supafly
Retired Mod
It works the other way around, too sadly, at least here in Germany. There is a certain spread of grades, from 1 (Excellent) to 6 (Failed). Read about a math teacher in elementary school who was so good that - for the dean and her colleagues - too many got 1s and 2s and way too little got their 5s and 6s.
So she had to re-evaluate, eventually given pupils that got a 3- a 5. Fucked up.
So she had to re-evaluate, eventually given pupils that got a 3- a 5. Fucked up.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
College is not real life. When many get there it is high school. Harder classes and more freedom. Do enough to pass to make it to the next year. If you do get a degree in something you want to and can do then you better have people out there ready to give you a job. Cold calling with just a diploma in your hand isn't enough.
Another problem is the wrong degree at the wrong school. Don't major in law at MIT and don't study art in Princeton. My school was a liberal arts state college. Drama, dance, music, communications, and education were strong degrees. About 40% enrolled in business and political science and these easy degrees are worthless. I had to take some of these classes to fulfill my distributive. Upper division stuff too. The business stuff was all theory. You couldn't run a table at a flea market with the shit they were spewing out. The poli-sci classes were nothing more that what the professor was reading in the newspaper that week. Still kids got their degrees and I passed.
I don't work in the field that I studied. Didn't know anyone in the business and had to carve my own path to fulfill obligations. I will tell you one thing. What I studied there is the foundation for what I continue to study. Many years after graduation.
Bobjustbob.
Another problem is the wrong degree at the wrong school. Don't major in law at MIT and don't study art in Princeton. My school was a liberal arts state college. Drama, dance, music, communications, and education were strong degrees. About 40% enrolled in business and political science and these easy degrees are worthless. I had to take some of these classes to fulfill my distributive. Upper division stuff too. The business stuff was all theory. You couldn't run a table at a flea market with the shit they were spewing out. The poli-sci classes were nothing more that what the professor was reading in the newspaper that week. Still kids got their degrees and I passed.
I don't work in the field that I studied. Didn't know anyone in the business and had to carve my own path to fulfill obligations. I will tell you one thing. What I studied there is the foundation for what I continue to study. Many years after graduation.
Bobjustbob.
BioDefenseGrad
Banned
What's your major?
BioDefenseGrad
Banned
I'll agree with the NEA president exactly one time and say that we need to pay teachers better and return dignity to the teaching profession. With that said, I would crush the teachers unions, who are the biggest roadblock to education reform. I would then fire many, many teachers.
If you have gone to college with education majors, you'll see what I mean. Even studies conducted by teachers unions paint an unflattering picture of the types of people pursuing a career in teaching.
But then again, you don't have to be a rocket scientist or particularly competent to be a teacher. The curriculum needs to be reformed and I think everything needs to change to make American kids competitive with the rest of the world.
Parents also need to admit that they've screwed up. That's the toughest part perhaps. Our government and society is good at punishing people for bad behavior but isn't very good at encouraging good or constructive behavior.
Math and science education needs to come above all others (but how do you that when many teachers aren't math literate themselves??) and the left wing needs to acknowledge how badly they've screwed up priorities in education. They dominate the teaching profession, they get the most support from teachers unions, they make excuses when schools fail.
If you have gone to college with education majors, you'll see what I mean. Even studies conducted by teachers unions paint an unflattering picture of the types of people pursuing a career in teaching.
But then again, you don't have to be a rocket scientist or particularly competent to be a teacher. The curriculum needs to be reformed and I think everything needs to change to make American kids competitive with the rest of the world.
Parents also need to admit that they've screwed up. That's the toughest part perhaps. Our government and society is good at punishing people for bad behavior but isn't very good at encouraging good or constructive behavior.
Math and science education needs to come above all others (but how do you that when many teachers aren't math literate themselves??) and the left wing needs to acknowledge how badly they've screwed up priorities in education. They dominate the teaching profession, they get the most support from teachers unions, they make excuses when schools fail.
PirateKing
█▀█▀█ █ █
Well I feel better knowing that we're all in the same boat. I agree though. Teachers don't seem to be stepping up and challenging the students intellectually and these days the information they spew can easily be inquired by searching the internet.
So, let me get it straight. People are complaining that they learn nothing in college except how to breeze through with the least amount of effort. Is that about right?
The real solution to America's Higher Education System.
NO HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATE SHOULD GO DIRECTLY INTO COLLEGE. EVERYONE SHOULD SPEND 2 YEARS IMMEDIATLY AFTER GRADUATION SERVING COMMUNITY: cutting trees, shoveling, cleaning up highways, repairing shit, painting shit, cleaning up beaches, digging ditches, planting crops, farming, or working as house keepers for working families with small children who need to work.
Most college freshmen are not interested in college. All they want to do is fuck around, get drunk, do nothing, smoke pot, and eat taco bell. Maybe when students were actually ready to learn they could go to college?
Also, why shouldn't all citizens give back to their community at some point? Is it asking too much for all people to serve their communities for 2 years? I don't think that's a great sacrifice.
The real solution to America's Higher Education System.
NO HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATE SHOULD GO DIRECTLY INTO COLLEGE. EVERYONE SHOULD SPEND 2 YEARS IMMEDIATLY AFTER GRADUATION SERVING COMMUNITY: cutting trees, shoveling, cleaning up highways, repairing shit, painting shit, cleaning up beaches, digging ditches, planting crops, farming, or working as house keepers for working families with small children who need to work.
Most college freshmen are not interested in college. All they want to do is fuck around, get drunk, do nothing, smoke pot, and eat taco bell. Maybe when students were actually ready to learn they could go to college?
Also, why shouldn't all citizens give back to their community at some point? Is it asking too much for all people to serve their communities for 2 years? I don't think that's a great sacrifice.
So, let me get it straight. People are complaining that they learn nothing in college except how to breeze through with the least amount of effort. Is that about right?
The real solution to America's Higher Education System.
NO HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATE SHOULD GO DIRECTLY INTO COLLEGE. EVERYONE SHOULD SPEND 2 YEARS IMMEDIATLY AFTER GRADUATION SERVING COMMUNITY: cutting trees, shoveling, cleaning up highways, repairing shit, painting shit, cleaning up beaches, digging ditches, planting crops, farming, or working as house keepers for working families with small children who need to work.
Most college freshmen are not interested in college. All they want to do is fuck around, get drunk, do nothing, smoke pot, and eat taco bell. Maybe when students were actually ready to learn they could go to college?
Also, why shouldn't all citizens give back to their community at some point? Is it asking too much for all people to serve their communities for 2 years? I don't think that's a great sacrifice.
There is a problem with that also. If unemployment was around zero percent it might work, but if you mean they had to get a regular job right after high school what happens at a time like now where they are almost impossible to find?
If you mean that they have to volunteer for two years for free that might very well be even worse. If you are a everyday person that's hard up for work and struggling are you telling me people in that situation wouldn't become extremely pissed off if some kid just took that job away from them because the people just out of school were forced to work for free and undercut everybody else for that job who might desperately need it?
I could also mention that a lot of people forget what they learn soon after leaving school so the more they stay out of school the more they will forget. There is also the problem of funding. Higher education is expensive enough as it is. If people had to volunteer where are they going to build up the money to go. If I had to guess I would say less people recently have parents that just saved and paid all the higher education needs of the people who continue on that route. The more somebody has to stay out of a better paying job the less the make in their life and the less they get to save for the future. There is a lot of downside to it.
Something like you are suggesting is only viable in a world that isn't reality. Too many things would need to improve drastically for it to ever work well, and it's not going to happen.
Certainly if you look at the large picture in education, there needs to be some degree of salary reform, however college professors are paid very well, and you can see the results they're producing thus far. :dunno:
So, let me get it straight. People are complaining that they learn nothing in college except how to breeze through with the least amount of effort. Is that about right?
The real solution to America's Higher Education System.
NO HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATE SHOULD GO DIRECTLY INTO COLLEGE. EVERYONE SHOULD SPEND 2 YEARS IMMEDIATLY AFTER GRADUATION SERVING COMMUNITY: cutting trees, shoveling, cleaning up highways, repairing shit, painting shit, cleaning up beaches, digging ditches, planting crops, farming, or working as house keepers for working families with small children who need to work.
Most college freshmen are not interested in college. All they want to do is fuck around, get drunk, do nothing, smoke pot, and eat taco bell. Maybe when students were actually ready to learn they could go to college?
Also, why shouldn't all citizens give back to their community at some point? Is it asking too much for all people to serve their communities for 2 years? I don't think that's a great sacrifice.
Haha, my oldest cousin (a hippy science grad) said pretty much the same thing to me. I think I have to agree. Either that or the service. In fact, I would say one year mandatory for all citizens at age 18 (at their choice up until 27 or so) or the Peace Corps. :2 cents:
Hell, that is actually mandatory is some countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service#Countries_with_mandatory_military_service
I actually don't see a big problem with this. Actually, it makes our youth in this country seem kinda soft.
I know that.
I'd say more than half of the college students today do not belong in a university, they should be going to a trade school instead.
Many young professors at university are lazy schmucks who want the perks of a Prof. who's taught 30+ years. Most are content to just write articles and not books.
Unfortunately some departments pay more than others. Law profs are paid much more than those in the sciences, languages, or business schools.
Many young professors at university are lazy schmucks who want the perks of a Prof. who's taught 30+ years. Most are content to just write articles and not books.
Unfortunately some departments pay more than others. Law profs are paid much more than those in the sciences, languages, or business schools.
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