I've made this comment in other threads but I'm tired of all this Anti-Bush/US babble. I think W. is an idiot, but most politicians are. As far as the US bashing goes the US didn't ask to be the worlds police. Europe did back in the 30's. But we stayed out of it till 1941. Yes the US dropped the bomb on Japan. The Soviets,the Germans and even the Japanese were working on the same technology. After WWII the US stayed to help rebuild both Europe and Japan. When that was done most of Europe was worried about the Soviets. So again the Us stayed to help our allies. Most of the Anti-US rhetoric isn't even about the US government, it's about US big business taking over everything. I'm proud to be an American. Yes we have problems but there is nowhere else I'd rather be. :2 cents:
Anybody else tired of this BS
- Thread starter ThatRedWing
- Start date
It would be nice if capitalism came to the UK.
And maybe freedom of speech.
Can america liberate the UK?
The problem is a lot of capitalism in the US isn't controlled. There is no limit to how big business can grow, which results in little companies getting smoked. You need them both - big and small. However I would much rather have it the US way than the other end of the scale. Controlled capitalism would make the world better.
You have a strangely distorted grasp on history, btw no one asked America to be the worlds police especially when they can't police themselves.:1orglaugh
US did nothing to rebuild the UK and gave massive loans to France and bigger loans to Germany for there rebuilding, the countries in Europe physically rebuilt themselves.
The US joined the war because of Pearl harbor and not because we asked the US to, again read your history books.
I think you will find its Asia not North America thats taking over everything, Japanese, Korean, Chinese and Indian (and some others) markets are the fastest growing and the biggest exporting markets in the world.
More suggested reading would be the financial news.
We have both.
you seem to have had a bad experience selling your wares in the UK ...get over it.
< Leaves the thread whilst brushing his hands of American narrow mindedness >
:2 cents:
I don't usually get into these country debating threads, but when people mention WWII it does touch a little personal nerve. I lost my grandad due to WWII, the injuries he recieved during the war killed him not long after.
I personally wouldn't brag about the US staying out of it till 1941. First the US still wouldn't have entered it then if Japan hadn't attacked them. Second they was quite happy to sit back and watch a man butcher innocent people and take control of their countries by force. So is this a good thing or a bad thing ?
I live in the UK and have freedom of speech, so I don't know why you haven't. Of course like every country it does have to police some issues. But otherwise you can make your voice heard if you need too!
One problem with this, is that one day one company will own your whole country. Then if the rest of the world thinks alike maybe the world. There are people in the US already saying that certain companies have grown too big and have too much power. They are scared that soon it will be these companies picking the goverment and President soon and IMO they have a point.
and allright, ok, I'll take the bait...
Yeah, it didn't ask. that's the problem.
but you know actually I do agree with you. bashing on Bush and the United states is pretty pointless- doing so implies that bush actually has some kind of authority and has the abilty to do something instead of just being one moron that says shit, and then it gets done because everyone else chooses to listen to it. and also that america is the same way, that it's something that actually exists outside of a name and a line on a map and an idea in people's heads and outside of the decisions in the daily lives of each person. utter nonsense.
Yeah, it didn't ask. that's the problem.
but you know actually I do agree with you. bashing on Bush and the United states is pretty pointless- doing so implies that bush actually has some kind of authority and has the abilty to do something instead of just being one moron that says shit, and then it gets done because everyone else chooses to listen to it. and also that america is the same way, that it's something that actually exists outside of a name and a line on a map and an idea in people's heads and outside of the decisions in the daily lives of each person. utter nonsense.
That was my point in that you need to control how big they can grow. There can't be an infinate space for them to grow into ther has to be a cap on there size somewhere. We need both the larger comapnaies and the smaller ones to compete with it.
First off you are right about why the US got involved. I never said why they got involved. But Hitler was right on the ball to declare war even when the US war declaration was against only Japan. The US position was to let everybody take care of there own affairs, including themselves. Wasn't the UK supposed to be the mightiest nation in the world at the time. As far as France and Germany getting the most aid that was where the most damage was done. All I am saying is that it's hypocritical to ask for US help and than bitch that they are there.
You did say why US got invloved in ww2
During the 30's Germany turned its industry to making arms and ships and tanks and planes and ammunition and training its youth to be soldiers, also when the fighting started some countries did not defend themselves ie Belgium ets and some countries joined the Germans at stages in the war on there side ie Austria/ Italy thats why the rest of Europe had a hard time taming them.
Uk and Russia were the only countries to withstand the tyranny.
So you might say we were the mightiest.
Who's asking for help ...no one!!!
During the 30's Germany turned its industry to making arms and ships and tanks and planes and ammunition and training its youth to be soldiers, also when the fighting started some countries did not defend themselves ie Belgium ets and some countries joined the Germans at stages in the war on there side ie Austria/ Italy thats why the rest of Europe had a hard time taming them.
Uk and Russia were the only countries to withstand the tyranny.
So you might say we were the mightiest.
No we was a country like most others, but we did have some intrests in quite a few countries, as we still do now.
I seriously think you go and read up on some of this before you continue in this thread. Germany was hit badly as was most of Europe, but it was no worst than Britain that was under siege for nearly a year. Getting blitzed by Germany and it's allies.
Now go read a little before you get to deep into trouble in this thread. (Nothing against you, just a bit of friendly advice.)
I agree with you on the most of your post except for Russia (or, more exactly, we should say the U.S.S.R. in those days), which had been Hitler's ally till it was attacked by the Germans on 22nd June 1941. Both of these countries, led by totalitarian socialists (either National or Marx-Leninist) shared defeated Poland with each other and the Soviets (not the Germans) massacred practically the entire officer corps of Poland. Both were very hostile to the West and fx Czech communist newspaper (controlled by the Communist Party of the U.S.S.R.) of that time described the Nazis as "the German workers = brothers in arms against French and British imperialists".
Sorry for being a little off-topic, but I think the Soviets are considered as freedom fighters against the Nazism wrongfully and illogically.
I take your point and I did know that already but if I had said only Britain had been able to withstand the hostile takeover from the German war machine then someone would of said USSR.As we both know Switzerland was able to maintain neutrality (of sorts anyway), but thats digressing further.
I'm not for one minute demonising or canonising any one country merely
trying to get the basics established.
but to explain the entire politics of WW2 and each campaign theirin would lead to a massive series of posts and would be seriously off topic.
I'm not for one minute demonising or canonising any one country merely
trying to get the basics established.
but to explain the entire politics of WW2 and each campaign theirin would lead to a massive series of posts and would be seriously off topic.
BNF
Ex-SuperMod
Yeah, Swiss neutrality.... what a steaming mound of horse shit. Not choosing to stand against the Nazis was cowardice in some eyes or a browbeating (by Germany) nearly bloodless takeover to others. And to this day it continues, not as neautrality at all, but a complete and utter cowardice - and selfishness and conceit the likes of which this well travelled man has never seen before. (Off topic rant over)
On topic: I don't think that there are many people that really think of the US as the world's police. I think that instead, many people think of the US as vigilant in protecting it's interests around the world, at seemingly any cost.
I was in a "neutral" country (guess where!) where I was astonished by the number of men my age that were completely serious about demanding a vote in US elections when they were argueing (rather assulting) an American friend of mine. They are/were not US citizens, but believed that because of the US influence in their country, which when confronted with later absolutely denied!!!, that they should have a vote.
What that conversation (rather assult of my US friend) proved to me was that even educated, well off men in the first world, still can harbour the same resentment and ignorance as a brainwashed 17yr old suicide jihadist. The action of the jihadist clearly is quite different, but the same root, the same feeling of entitlement, the same helplessness is apparent in both.
From my POV, my own interests (business, financially, commercially and often socially) are dependent on the US. At the same time, the ties back to me (and Italy in this example) are equally dependent. The world is connected by a millipede of tentacles with thousands more everyday. The US is at the root of the tentacles, with most linking to the PacRim and old, stagnant Europe. Sure there are some to Africa, the middle east and S.America, but this is only an illustration.
The illustration is that once you see and become part of the network of tentacles of finance, trade, industry and such, you cannot fight the US because you are also part of it and vice versa. You can, however, still shoot off your (anti US types) mouths about ignorant Americans and stupid Bush......... while conveniently forgetting for an evening that the world is not black and white and probably never was. (Remeber Chavez keeps sending the oil and the US keeps buying it!) I don't think that any of the tentacles can be cut off without it hurting the whole, and my US colleagues all seem to know that.
Let me make one simple example: This is a Dutch based board, run by an Italian and moderated by 4 Americans, one Greek and one Brazilian. Our content is overwhelmingly US produced, but fed around the globe. Our membership is overwhelmingly American too. So, apart from the essentially small local legal differences between most all of us - we all have far far more in common that we do different. Looking for the similarities in us is far more constructive that separating us (as a whole).
Outstanding post BNF
:hatsoff:
:hatsoff:
A long time ago I once heard a foreign journalist (I don't know who but I think he was British) once say about America that it was like some member of the family that irritated you. A member that you might not like but you couldn't really live without and in the end even they end they usually did the right thing. I don't know if that statement is accurate or not, but I thought I would bring it up.
I wouldn't say that Russia and the UK were the mightiest. In truth they both just got lucky geographically. Russia had the benefit of facing an opponent that had to fight a two front war, had harsh winters, and had a wide countryside that made the Germans extend their supply lines. The UK had a benefit that no other country had, and that is called the English Channel. Without that the UK would have probably been crushed.
cabey said:
I wouldn't say that Russia and the UK were the mightiest. In truth they both just got lucky geographically. Russia had the benefit of facing an opponent that had to fight a two front war, had harsh winters, and had a wide countryside that made the Germans extend their supply lines. The UK had a benefit that no other country had, and that is called the English Channel. Without that the UK would have probably been crushed.
are you serious? there are laws against monopolies which make it illegal for a company to control a whole market...
I think we've got to be careful when saying things like "the US was happy to stay out of the war until attacked". That's a generalisation about the 10s of millions of Americans at the time, many many of whom did want to intervene in the war to fight the evil of Nazism. This included the president, FDR, however America was not a dictatorship and one leader could not plunge his whole nation into war without building support for it (unlike, say Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia). We should not forget that FDR vowed, very publicly, that his number 1 priority was to defeat Nazi Germany, even though the US had not been directly attacked by that repulsive state.
It's also unfair to say of my beloved limeys that they were lucky behind the English channel. The rest of the world should be saying forever that WE ALL were damned lucky the Brits decided to keep fighting at the darkest moment in human history. The Bristish resistance egave hope to conquered people all over Europe. when France, Belgium, Poland, Holland, Norway, Denmark and Czechoslovakia were all invaded and Hitler had (let's not forget this) the Soviet Union, Italy, the Japanese Empire, Hungary, Rumania, Bulgaria and Spain supporting him, the RAF were hitting back at the Reich, the Royal Navy were hunting the U-boats and the British army was holding its own against the Italians and Germans in North Africa. Russia could not have held out without the supplies British ships were delivering, and the US would not have had a foothold to attack Nazi-dominate Europe without the Brits.
It's also unfair to say of my beloved limeys that they were lucky behind the English channel. The rest of the world should be saying forever that WE ALL were damned lucky the Brits decided to keep fighting at the darkest moment in human history. The Bristish resistance egave hope to conquered people all over Europe. when France, Belgium, Poland, Holland, Norway, Denmark and Czechoslovakia were all invaded and Hitler had (let's not forget this) the Soviet Union, Italy, the Japanese Empire, Hungary, Rumania, Bulgaria and Spain supporting him, the RAF were hitting back at the Reich, the Royal Navy were hunting the U-boats and the British army was holding its own against the Italians and Germans in North Africa. Russia could not have held out without the supplies British ships were delivering, and the US would not have had a foothold to attack Nazi-dominate Europe without the Brits.
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