Americans should not be allowed to own guns.

I'm sure most people are aware that most of the statistics out there that state that your much more likely to harm yourself or your family than to protect yourself from an assailant don't take into account situations where the mere presence of a gun is enough to deter a crime. There have been estimates that the guns presence backs people off somewhere around 98% of the time without a shot even needing to be fired, yet it's not reported or recorded like when actual shots are fired or somebody gets shot. So most of those statistics that state your more likely to have something bad happen to you than to prevent something bad conveniently ignore the overwhelming majority of evidence because it doesn't show what they want it to. Most of those statistics about those ratios are junk, which is what happens when selection bias ignores somewhere in the high nineties percent of all situations.

I'm sure all the anti-gun people that continually spout those statistics already knew this, right? :1orglaugh
 

The Paulinator

Spreading the seed
IM_SORRY_BUT_GUN_SHOT_.jpg

This is not a picture posting forum

Last edited by Pussy+DickDenice. Reason:This is not a picture posting forum


:rofl:
 
Similarly the evidence is there that OVERALL the presence of a gun in a house renders the inhabitants less, not more, safe.For every intruder there are several accidents.

When you say "the evidence is there "... where is "there"?

That's been done somewhere recently-from memory it was about 22 times more likely that a family member was shot by accident than a burglar but I've no source to back this up.
Generally-and there are exceptions of course-people illegally entering a home aren't interested in confrontation , they just want the loot and a quick exit, preferably unnoticed.Where victimisation occurs the criminal will most likely be armed too which changes the rules.

Whoa!
I think you are trying to have it both ways...

Let's examine 2 of your assertions in detail:
1) "people illegally entering a home aren't interested in confrontation"
2) "Where victimisation occurs the criminal will most likely be armed too "
:confused:

Why are they armed if they are not being confrontational?
An armed intruder entering someone else's home is being confrontational regardless of the other circumstances, wouldn't you say??
Anyone breaking into someone else's home is being confrontational.

Do you realize that according to your strict definition for "confrontational" home invasions, every single rape and attempted rape during a break-in is an "exception"?
Do you assume a rape is not a confrontation? Or do you assume that it isn't the intruder's intent to be confrontational during the rape?

Why is it that you believe the only type of victimization is when the intruder murders you?

Ok, let's use your incredibly strict criteria:
Source: U.S. Dept of Justice
and U.S. CDC - National Center for Injury Prevention and Control

2005:
==> Homicides committed during felony (burglary,theft, rape, etc..) : 2,432
(note: "unknown" is 6,295 - certainly a large portion of these are felony related as well)
==> Percentage of Felony Homicides involving guns (80%).
2,432(.8) = 1946
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/circumst.htm

2005:
==> Unintentional Firearm Deaths
All Races, Both Sexes, All Ages - 789
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

According to these two sources, you are more than 2 times as likely to be killed by a firearm during a felony than to be a victim of a fatal unintentional firearm accident.

(More than 3 times as likely if you include your chances of being killed by a different weapon such as a knife)

Other info:
Offenders had or used a weapon in 48% of all robberies -> http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict_c.htm
9% of all felonies involved a firearm -> http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

===========================

As D-Rock mentioned, many other studies make a similar mistake. Apparently they only count a "defense" with firearms where "physical attacks had already commenced." This is far too restrictive.

Even people who take this restrictive view (David McDowall) find that guns were used in defense 64,615 times annually. (6 times as numerous as victims of gun homicide during the same period)

Others (such as Gary Kleck) that attempt to also take into account defenses with firearms where no shots are fired, find 2.45 million crimes are thwarted each year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
 
The funny thing is that Canada also has a long tradition of hunting and owning guns with iirc 6-7 million guns in circulation yet the crime rate in Canada is only a fraction of that in the US. That should tell everyone something about American society.

Bullshit. Been to Toronto lately?
 
Bullshit. Been to Toronto lately?

Crime in Toronto has been relatively low; the low crime rate in Toronto has resulted in the city having a reputation as one of the safer cities in North America, although violent crime has increased since 1990. Toronto is very safe compared to other major cities in North America. For instance, in 2007, the homicide rate for Toronto was 3.1 per 100,000 people, compared to Atlanta (19.7), Boston (10.3), Los Angeles (10.0), New York City (6.3), Vancouver (3.1), and Montreal (2.6). Toronto's robbery rate also ranks low, with 207.1 robberies per 100,000 people, compared to Los Angeles (348.5), Vancouver (266.2), New York City (265.9), and Montreal (235.3)

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2007/07/18/to-crime.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Toronto

I've lived all over Canada, Toronto has it ruff areas but which city doesn't? its mostly gang related.
 
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