6th grade feild trip to a Mosque

[calpoon]

good posts all around. don't have much to add to it. I'll just say that I think teaching and preaching are two different things. It's pretty much impossible to teahc history without bringing religion into it. I think that **** should be exposed to anything of educational relelvence in school. On a semi related note, all schools everywhere in america teach **** that they should believe in capitalism, just to name one thing that schools are pushing on people and dictating how they should think.

eh, I don't know about you guys but I thought that k-12 was a waste of time and anything that I wanted to learn about I learned on my own supplimentary to the classroom and ignored the rest. The only place to really learn anything is college and sadly it's just about what you need do to get a job, so anything else is kind of just a waste of time and money. that's why I stopped going, because I just took classes about things that I wanted to learn about and it didn't get me anywhere.

 

[D-rock]

It just not true that Christianity and Judaism are not allowed to be mentioned in public school. There are course on world religions, world cultures and comparative religions. It is entirely appropriate subject matter in that context. What’s not allowed is religion in course such as biology, physics and geology. Otherwise the science would all be answered “God did it”. God is also not allowed in official public school activities such as assemblies and other gatherings. As far as class trips are concerned I believe the parents have to give permission for their ***** to go no matter were it is.

Ummm...not exactly. While if your in some social studies class and they tell you the very basic facts of a religion in the most matter of fact way possible, that is different than going into theology or the teaching of morals or ethics. If what you said is to be true then schools could just as well put the Ten Commandments on the wall and use the excuse that it's a "teaching experience on Christianity". That will still have nothing to do with biology or physics.


Another issue I have with this is it's not the schools responsibility or right to teach ******** to be good people or to get rid of their prejudices. Nobody should ever teach ******** ethics or morals beside their parents or whomever the parents decide to do it for them, and "them" should never be a public institution. It is a public school's job to do one thing and one thing only and that is to teach facts. All the other things are a parents’ job (or legal guardian) and a parents job alone about how they go about doing it. Not that I have a problem with somebody going to a different religious building from what they are used to learn about other things. I have a problem when peoples' tax money and public resources are used to teach them about it, or to tech them to be better people in other people eyes, or to instill morals into them.

 

[meesterperfect]

It just not true that Christianity and Judaism are not allowed to be mentioned in public school. There are course on world religions, world cultures and comparative religions. It is entirely appropriate subject matter in that context. What’s not allowed is religion in course such as biology, physics and geology. Otherwise the science would all be answered “God did it”. God is also not allowed in official public school activities such as assemblies and other gatherings. As far as class trips are concerned I believe the parents have to give permission for their ***** to go no matter were it is.

This nonsense about Christians being prosecuted in the USA is crazy. I believe its 43 Christians presidents in a row and no other religion has a chance in hell of being elected. Rx Limbuagh is, like other members of the extreme right wing, trying to start a religious world war between the West and Middle Eastern Muslims. A new crusade as Bush said.

Mentioned? I guess you can mention anything,but it is a fact that in many public schools in the USA (I'm not sure the percentage, but its up there) cannot celebrate Christmas or Easter as they did for GENERATIONS.
WHY NOT?
Because now they don't want to offend anybody.And were talking about mostly decorations and stuff like that.
Why should someone's Christianity or Judism offend anybody?
Don't know, but apparently it does, therefore no more Santa Claus or Easter Bunny near the school.
Yes A santa claus and Easter Bunny free school zone, thats what its come to.
So, the USA opens its borders to pretty much every country to live in and "pursue happiness" and in 2007 they need to (or feel they need to) change their customs as to not offend anyone.
Thats what is happening, or even better, thats what happened

 

[meesterperfect]

A field trip to a muslim place of worship is a very good move that schools might consider making mandatory in the US right now. Think of it as the equivalent of German schools in the 1940s making trips to synagogues mandatory for students



Fox

Equivalent? Fox do you wear your underwear outside your pants?

 

[YMIHERE]

Ummm...not exactly. While if your in some social studies class and they tell you the very basic facts of a religion in the most matter of fact way possible, that is different than going into theology or the teaching of morals or ethics. If what you said is to be true then schools could just as well put the Ten Commandments on the wall and use the excuse that it's a "teaching experience on Christianity". That will still have nothing to do with biology or physics.


Another issue I have with this is it's not the schools responsibility or right to teach ******** to be good people or to get rid of their prejudices. Nobody should ever teach ******** ethics or morals beside their parents or whomever the parents decide to do it for them, and "them" should never be a public institution. It is a public school's job to do one thing and one thing only and that is to teach facts. All the other things are a parents’ job (or legal guardian) and a parents job alone about how they go about doing it. Not that I have a problem with somebody going to a different religious building from what they are used to learn about other things. I have a problem when peoples' tax money and public resources are used to teach them about it, or to tech them to be better people in other people eyes, or to instill morals into them.

I was speaking of religion being taught as a belief system. Teaching the aspects of a belief system is not the same as indoctrination. For example, Christian believes in salvation as a goal while Buddhist seeks nirvana. Most Western religions believe in an external single God while a lot of Eastern religions believe in an internal spiritual ***** linked to all there is, not a creator God per say. A lot could be learned about a religion without the danger of conversion and indoctrination. The History channel has many fine programs that explore religion and I doubt many have learned morality from the shows.

I agree I would not want the public school teaching a religious brand of morality. I want to Catholic school for ten years and I would not wish that on anyone. They expelled me because I asked too many inappropriate questions about the beating of students by the teachers. They were really immoral people I believe. In fact I do see religion as the source of morality. The source of morality is the society one lives in, which is also the source of morality of the religions. Look at the same religion in various parts of the world and you will see the different culture permeates the religions as much as doctrines. Only in America could the Christian fundamentalist movement be born out of America’s individualisms and exceptionalism in the late 1800 hundreds. The Al-Qaeda Muslim fundamentalists are a product of Arab Sunni culture and not representative of Muslims as a whole just as Christian fundamentalist does not define Christianity.

 

[YMIHERE]

Mentioned? I guess you can mention anything,but it is a fact that in many public schools in the USA (I'm not sure the percentage, but its up there) cannot celebrate Christmas or Easter as they did for GENERATIONS.
WHY NOT?
Because now they don't want to offend anybody.And were talking about mostly decorations and stuff like that.
Why should someone's Christianity or Judism offend anybody?
Don't know, but apparently it does, therefore no more Santa Claus or Easter Bunny near the school.
Yes A santa claus and Easter Bunny free school zone, thats what its come to.
So, the USA opens its borders to pretty much every country to live in and "pursue happiness" and in 2007 they need to (or feel they need to) change their customs as to not offend anyone.
Thats what is happening, or even better, thats what happened

Well I guess that the price of living in a multicultural society. Oh the times they are a changing.

 

[calpoon]

I have a problem when peoples' tax money and public resources are used to teach them about it, or to tech them to be better people in other people eyes, or to instill morals into them.

so do you think that schools shouldn't have any rules about behaviour and/or displinary actions? I mean, wouldn't that be imposing (thier) morals on ****?

 

[Christmas_Ape]

Love the mob mentality in this thread!

 

[Calm]

So? it's just a Mosque. I've been to churches, mosques and synagogues (yet I **** all religions).

 

[meesterperfect]

So? it's just a Mosque. I've been to churches, mosques and synagogues (yet I **** all religions).

This goes alot deeper than "its just a mosque". Its not even about non muslim ******** understanding the faith.
Its about indoctronating the guilt complex.

 

[calpoon]

how exactly does a *** going to a mosque make them feel guilty? because they get to see a human face to the people that our soldiers are ******* instead of having them be some far off entity on the TV? the fact that some people cringe in apparent horror at the prospect of having to even consider other cultures just demonstrates how neccesary this obviously is.

 

[meesterperfect]

Its funny how we can agree and disagree so often.
Ok we all know not every(or more likely very few) muslums are for instance Al Quada supporters.
I just think this feild trip is not so much about understanding the faith and the people as it was about feeling guilt, empathy, sympathy for real enemys of the U.S. like Al quada and Taliban.
Part of the "re-education" process of the american citizens.
Its like Ted Kennedy said, treat them nice and they will treat us nice.Aint gonna happen as far as war goes.
If the motives were just visiting a mosque for educational reasons thats fine with me although then again this is the U.S., why arent muslim **** taking field trips to Synaguoges or Christian churches for educational reasons.
That wouldn't happen because that would be called unconstitutional by many many groups and people.
Its definatley a 2 sided issue. So I'll leave it at that.

 

[calpoon]

Ok. yeah, I do see your point. it doesn't seem to be about "tolerance" or even just about education, but about politics- because of, like you said,the exclusion of other faiths.

The thing about multi-culturalism is that I think everyone should be subjected to seeing how other people live, and then based on that, they should be able to make up thier own mind about what they want to believe in and do. If they were presented with it objectivly and decided that that it sucks and they didn't want to have anything to do with it and stick to what they know, then that's fine. But they shouldn't just hear that someone elses or even there own is good or bad and expected to take it as faith without experiecing any alternatives. And that goes for everyone, everywhere.