Capitalism is a wonderful thing, it is the engine of wealth creation.But it has its downsides. Those who praise it seem to be the same ones who resent the resiting of industry and jobs to places like China and to immigration from Mexico.But these are the simple effects of capitalism , people go where the money is and work goes to where the costs are lowest .
15 Stunning Facts and Charts About Wealth & Inequality in the USA
- Thread starter Facial_King
- Start date
Who's talking about pure free market & pure capitalism?
There are many ways in between... but maybe we should start with some facts. For example, take a look at these data (social expenditure as a percentage of gdp):
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_net_soc_exp_of_gdp-economy-net-social-expenditure-gdp
So as you can see Germany spends a huge amount of it's taxpayers money on social benefits... yet the ones that are well off still have the majority of the capital in their hands. Even the USA spends a lot of money on social benefits for its population. We ARE living "somewhere in between". So where's the problem in the fact that there are still inequalities?
Supafly
Retired Mod
I have no problems with the facts of inequalities.
It is the unfair taxation and the loophoöes the tax laws give the super-rich and the abscence of those for the others, who cannot afford offshore bankaccounts, hedgefund investments, and, , foremost, the parking of several millions in government bonds, which results in these surplus millions are not getting taxed, whereas the rest of the country pays taxes for every single penny they have.
That is obscene.
It is the unfair taxation and the loophoöes the tax laws give the super-rich and the abscence of those for the others, who cannot afford offshore bankaccounts, hedgefund investments, and, , foremost, the parking of several millions in government bonds, which results in these surplus millions are not getting taxed, whereas the rest of the country pays taxes for every single penny they have.
That is obscene.
I am not familiar with the German tax system. However here where I live (Croatia) it gets increasingly difficult to evade taxes when you get richer and since Germany is something of a role model for us (most of our laws are modifications of the laws you use) I don't think the situation is very different in in your country when it comes to taxes and tax evasion. If you're a small business owner you can easily cheat on taxes and it is very unlikely that they will catch you. However bigger companies are under constant scrutiny and cannot evade taxes as easily as the small ones do. Yet I constantly hear people complaining about capitalism and that the rich ones are favored by the tax system.
Since the conversation's going all over the place, and since the thread started being about wealth and inequality, and since Bill Gates was mentioned, I'll post this, about the activities of Bill Gates, Sr. and his views on wealth and the public good and the estate tax:
http://www.dollarsandsense.org/bookstore/infocommonwealth.html
"Gates and Collins argue that individual wealth is a product not only of hard work and smart choices but of the society that provides the fertile soil for success. They don't subscribe to the "Great Man" theory of wealth creation but contend that society's investments, such as economic development, education, health care, and property rights protection, all contribute to any individual's good fortune. With the repeal proposed by the Bush administration, we might be facing the future that Teddy Roosevelt feared-where huge fortunes amassed and untaxed would evolve into a dangerous and permanent aristocracy. Repeal would drop federal revenues $850 billion in the decade after repeal, not to mention that the U.S. Treasury estimates that charitable contributions would drop by $6 billion a year.
But what about all those modest families that would lose the farm? Gates and Collins expose the fallacy of this argument, pointing out that this is largely a myth and that the very same lobbies and politicians who are crying "cows" have opposed other legislation that would actually have helped small farmers. Weaving in personal narratives, history, and plenty of solid economic sense, Gates and Collins make a sound and compelling case for tax reform, not repeal."
http://www.dollarsandsense.org/bookstore/infocommonwealth.html
"Gates and Collins argue that individual wealth is a product not only of hard work and smart choices but of the society that provides the fertile soil for success. They don't subscribe to the "Great Man" theory of wealth creation but contend that society's investments, such as economic development, education, health care, and property rights protection, all contribute to any individual's good fortune. With the repeal proposed by the Bush administration, we might be facing the future that Teddy Roosevelt feared-where huge fortunes amassed and untaxed would evolve into a dangerous and permanent aristocracy. Repeal would drop federal revenues $850 billion in the decade after repeal, not to mention that the U.S. Treasury estimates that charitable contributions would drop by $6 billion a year.
But what about all those modest families that would lose the farm? Gates and Collins expose the fallacy of this argument, pointing out that this is largely a myth and that the very same lobbies and politicians who are crying "cows" have opposed other legislation that would actually have helped small farmers. Weaving in personal narratives, history, and plenty of solid economic sense, Gates and Collins make a sound and compelling case for tax reform, not repeal."
this widening income gap between the rich and poor is no surprise the poor tend to come from shittier neighborhoods which have shittier schools which aren't conducive to attending a decent college (if they could even afford college at all) which leads to them being unable to achieve the level of monetary success which allows them to have much to pass on to their children in the monetary/property sense...in general...plus a shit ton of other factors, now i don't have a fix for this but i don't pretend there's equality between the rich and poor
Supafly
Retired Mod
Add in the fact that over the last 'fat years', economy-wise, workers were preached to - and sadly, acceptimg - smaller pay rises, if at all. Which, set into relation to the indflation and the constant rising od prices for everyday stuff, results in having actually less and less money.
Now, as the several crisis waves are hitting and hittin us time and again, workers will have to go even shorter.
Plus they get fucked, as they have to pay the bailout for the companies and banks who are about to wipe them out of their pesnion funds and of their homes, if they could afford one before.
And those large companies make a new fat batch of cash and give themselves some more bonuses, cut out of the back off the workers who can only stand by and make a fist and try to make do with even less.
Now, as the several crisis waves are hitting and hittin us time and again, workers will have to go even shorter.
Plus they get fucked, as they have to pay the bailout for the companies and banks who are about to wipe them out of their pesnion funds and of their homes, if they could afford one before.
And those large companies make a new fat batch of cash and give themselves some more bonuses, cut out of the back off the workers who can only stand by and make a fist and try to make do with even less.
This is not how I understand things. During the Industrial Revolution people flocked ito the new cities from the land.Although conditions and wages were dreadful by our standards they actually constituted an improvement at the time.Or of course they wouldn't have moved.We can't imagine just how hard life was for ordinary people in those days.Life was actually slowly but surely improving for the masses.It was of course through industrialisation that there was at last enough to go round and living standards rose dramatically.
maildude
Postal Paranoiac
And Sweden's unemployment rate is huge. I know more history than you. The French Revolution was simple: the haves versus the have-nots. Same as overtaxation. Which class of society can absorb higher taxes better? Representation in legislation would have only given colonists an opportunity to put someone in power who would be willing to do what they want.
meesterperfect
Hiliary 2020
Can certain people in the USA deemed poor by some standard of measure graduate high school and get a college grant or loan from the GOV?
Will the GOV continue to educate these people as long as their grades meet a certain level?
When these people graduate are there laws in place that give them preferential treatment in the hiring process?
When these people obtain a job isn't more difficult to fire them due to the abuse of discrimination lawsuits?
Do they sometimes get preferential treatment from banks when applying for a mortgage to buy a house?
I think yes.
So with all these advantages that a middle class person who's parents or themselves are working hard and just barely paying the bills doesn't have, why is teenage pregnancy and single motherhood so common?
Why do so many simply have children and then live off the GOV for the rest of their lives?
Why are so many unemployed, even when the economy was humming?
Because for a large percentage of these people its easier that way.
I mean who wanna wake up and go to work or school everyday?
The democrats tell me I'll just be discriminated against anyway.
Seems like the democrats love to blame everybody but them.
its rich peoples fault, its republicans fault, its white people fault, ect ect.
yeah its a tough world out there, but as bill cosby said there is also so much wasted opportunity is sickening.
Will the GOV continue to educate these people as long as their grades meet a certain level?
When these people graduate are there laws in place that give them preferential treatment in the hiring process?
When these people obtain a job isn't more difficult to fire them due to the abuse of discrimination lawsuits?
Do they sometimes get preferential treatment from banks when applying for a mortgage to buy a house?
I think yes.
So with all these advantages that a middle class person who's parents or themselves are working hard and just barely paying the bills doesn't have, why is teenage pregnancy and single motherhood so common?
Why do so many simply have children and then live off the GOV for the rest of their lives?
Why are so many unemployed, even when the economy was humming?
Because for a large percentage of these people its easier that way.
I mean who wanna wake up and go to work or school everyday?
The democrats tell me I'll just be discriminated against anyway.
Seems like the democrats love to blame everybody but them.
its rich peoples fault, its republicans fault, its white people fault, ect ect.
yeah its a tough world out there, but as bill cosby said there is also so much wasted opportunity is sickening.
maildude
Postal Paranoiac
The Democrats aren't exclusive in blaming everybody else for these problems. Last time I checked, teenaged pregnancy happens in rich, Republican households as well as poorer rural Republican households. The point you make about hard work and familial solidarity is well-taken. But it is not exclusive.
I recently went down to the job center around me to see about getting a STNA certificate and help in training. I got there super early in case of lines and all that I was around 14 other people and all those folks were there for food stamps and free money. After fifteen minutes about five more people showed up and a couple of them were there for help in training for a job. A lot of the people who were wanting food stamps and free money were complaining about one thing: No money.
I thought to myself as I was listening to folks complain about no money is all the things they were doing the past week. One talked about going out to eat for dinner, another kept talking about a club, and another talked about how she wish she was still back in California because they gave her $700 cash and $500 in food stamps, this state, I live in, sucks at either matching or giving her more.
I kept thinking, ok, sure these people might need it and some have apparently, by their own mouths, been on this support for years... thing is, they could still be on food stamps and free money, however, at the same time they are at a JOB CENTER! They could be getting training for any field imaginable, have the place help them, if not pay all, for their training! Yet they all just want a free ride throughout life! That is the problem today!
People expect everything handed to them. People expect the government to take from the rich by taxes to support the very thing they leech off in society! Other working folks! What they do not realize is that a individual who might be working a 9-5 40 hour work week is getting taxed as well! Thus they will get less money and become "poor class" and most likely will find a way to make more money. While the folks who are crying and moaning for free food stamps and free money are the ones who are sapping from EVERYBODY! Not just the rich, but the average, working individual.
If you get out there, search for some kind of work, you will find it! Be assertive! Know for surety you want a job! Once you get that locked in your mind you will get it! It may not happen the day of, the week of, or heck, maybe not even in the same month! JUST KEEP TRYING! Heck there are temp agencies to get you temporary or permanent job opportunities! There are so many places out there that can get you on a job! So no I do not feel sorry for a lot of people out there who are jobless! Especially when there are this many kind of advantages to getting a job in either a minuscule or a high demand paying job!
All you have to do is get out there and hunt! There are enough programs out there to help you get into a job career opportunity, a certificate, degree, whatever, they just need to get out there and get it! It may not be something grand or whatever, but at least it is a start!
I am reminded of a line from the movie The Jerk:
People today want to start out at the top and move sideways...
Or something like that.
I thought to myself as I was listening to folks complain about no money is all the things they were doing the past week. One talked about going out to eat for dinner, another kept talking about a club, and another talked about how she wish she was still back in California because they gave her $700 cash and $500 in food stamps, this state, I live in, sucks at either matching or giving her more.
I kept thinking, ok, sure these people might need it and some have apparently, by their own mouths, been on this support for years... thing is, they could still be on food stamps and free money, however, at the same time they are at a JOB CENTER! They could be getting training for any field imaginable, have the place help them, if not pay all, for their training! Yet they all just want a free ride throughout life! That is the problem today!
People expect everything handed to them. People expect the government to take from the rich by taxes to support the very thing they leech off in society! Other working folks! What they do not realize is that a individual who might be working a 9-5 40 hour work week is getting taxed as well! Thus they will get less money and become "poor class" and most likely will find a way to make more money. While the folks who are crying and moaning for free food stamps and free money are the ones who are sapping from EVERYBODY! Not just the rich, but the average, working individual.
If you get out there, search for some kind of work, you will find it! Be assertive! Know for surety you want a job! Once you get that locked in your mind you will get it! It may not happen the day of, the week of, or heck, maybe not even in the same month! JUST KEEP TRYING! Heck there are temp agencies to get you temporary or permanent job opportunities! There are so many places out there that can get you on a job! So no I do not feel sorry for a lot of people out there who are jobless! Especially when there are this many kind of advantages to getting a job in either a minuscule or a high demand paying job!
All you have to do is get out there and hunt! There are enough programs out there to help you get into a job career opportunity, a certificate, degree, whatever, they just need to get out there and get it! It may not be something grand or whatever, but at least it is a start!
I am reminded of a line from the movie The Jerk:
People today want to start out at the top and move sideways...
Or something like that.
