So, what exactly is going on in Greece?

[Red Spyder]

Are we witnessing the failure of "liberal" economic policies? Is it further and even clearer evidence that the wellfare state is not sustainable or do our friends on the left need even more evidence? :cough: A nod to the wise is sufficient... :cough:

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And even the NEW YORK TIMES!! Not exactly a bastion of conservative thought.

Another reform high on the list is removing the state from the marketplace in crucial sectors like HEALTH CARE, transportation and energy and allowing private investment. Economists say that the liberalization of trucking routes — where a trucking license can cost up to $90,000 — and the health care industry would help bring down prices in these areas, which are among the highest in Europe.

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Yet, we refuse to learn from someone else's mistakes.

 

[Supafly]

The point is, it is the behemoth hedgefunds and the uncontrolled stock exchanges that were bringing down small countries like they now break Greece (And in future, look out for Portugal and Spain, Ireland...).

They bet on the downslide of, as an example government bonds from these countries, and as they buy so many shares of bad debt insurances for those, the stock exchanges lower the worth of those bonds. It is rather complicated, but it boils down to betting on the failure of a state or country.

And our leaders are actually afraid of those hedgefunds, but they are either not willing or unable to control them and regulate the laws for stack markets and hedgefunds that make it impossible to do as they do.

The concept of capitalism, as we know it, has completely failed.

You know, the masses get poorer and poorer, and we even have to bail out those banks who ripped us a new one and now they are back but they are not changing their game. The next breaking money bubble is around the corner, and we will be loosing even more of our money, in order to keep those bastards in the game.

Time to change the rules!

 

[Friday on my mind]

What amuses me is this is like the 2nd thread started from a conservative view point that of course just fails to even mention the most unaccountable wastefull spending of all which of course is the pentagon and defense.For the money spent it gains the american people the least IMO.It is the most unaccountable (sometimes due to secrecy) but also most wastefull spending, as really the military seems unable to really accomplish very much.The military is obsolete and can't accomplish much of benefit.We just spend billions ,**** a few people but not really accomplish anything of lasting value.For examples see Vietnam,Iraq, and Afghanistan,does anybody think all that military stuff/spending has really been constuctive in those cases?

I won't argue that there is not a lot of room in some of the domestic social programs for better use of the spending, but just dismiss anyone who will not admit that by far we must 1st admit that our defense spending is much more a waste of money than those programs are and should be cut first (at least 50-75 %) before we talk about waste in social program spending.

 

[Facetious]

Greece reminds me of California, or LA to be more specific, the government just grows and grows and grows while at the same time, businesses and the reliable tax payers (seeing the light brightening inside the proverbial tunnel) flee to other, more business friendly states. Sooner or later the house of cards is going to collapse.

Sidebar ::1orglaugh Popular culture and society in general tend to get so worked up about theoretical global warming - environmental sustainability yet, when it comes to our nation's financial sustainability, they bury their heads in the sand . . . :dunno:
. . .and why not when somebody else has to pay for the resultant damages.

 

[HE1FiNEARTiST]

The point is, it is the behemoth hedgefunds and the uncontrolled stock exchanges that were bringing down small countries like they now break Greece (And in future, look out for Portugal and Spain, Ireland...).

They bet on the downslide of, as an example government bonds from these countries, and as they buy so many shares of bad debt insurances for those, the stock exchanges lower the worth of those bonds. It is rather complicated, but it boils down to betting on the failure of a state or country.

And our leaders are actually afraid of those hedgefunds, but they are either not willing or unable to control them and regulate the laws for stack markets and hedgefunds that make it impossible to do as they do.

The concept of capitalism, as we know it, has completely failed.

You know, the masses get poorer and poorer, and we even have to bail out those banks who ripped us a new one and now they are back but they are not changing their game. The next breaking money bubble is around the corner, and we will be loosing even more of our money, in order to keep those bastards in the game.

Time to change the rules!

well put. i remember my economic teacher mentioning how capitalism will fail. if the poorer get poorer, then there isnt enough rich folks to keep it going. but theres a secret to how capitalism works, DONT BE GREEDY!! share the wealth, but try telling all those assholes who say " im not sharing my money. i went to school for 4-8 yrs. my money." but it just doesnt work that way. you have to share.

 

[saschaxx]

The point is, it is the behemoth hedgefunds and the uncontrolled stock exchanges that were bringing down small countries like they now break Greece (And in future, look out for Portugal and Spain, Ireland...).


You know, the masses get poorer and poorer, and we even have to bail out those banks who ripped us a new one and now they are back but they are not changing their game. The next breaking money bubble is around the corner, and we will be loosing even more of our money, in order to keep those bastards in the game.

Time to change the rules!

You´re right ( almost ) BUT : The hedgefonds + stockmarkets just set the misery of Greece * on the table * ,...so everyone knows now about it. Our damned politicians never would have told us so ....I bet my azz . Greece was clearly LIARS ( about their budget ) when they joined the EU. So if they reached in with lying, why not throw em out ? Because they own too much money to European banks ... Means we throw good money after bad money . I myself NEVER believe that the Greece will get their budget fixed in the time they need and as they told.
Otherwise u´re right : The speculation should be gettin stopped, if necessary by law . And I´m sure, there will follow Portugal + Spain within this year ....
But we have another prob. from now on : The EZB ( European Central Bank ) MUST buy from now on crap - governement - bonds from countries who are suffering ...... you know what that means ?
German news say : The biggest * all-in * ever made in poker - history ...and they are RIGHT .

 

[Supafly]

Yeah and isn't it a funny coincidence that our Finance Minister, the wheelchair-bound Wolfgang Schäuble, has had an 'allergic shock' on sunday just before the big conference in Brussles where those steps were decided on?

They say he got a new medicament and reacted bad to it, but I don't buy that story.

I guess his system collapsed because he learned what will go down in the next months and he will be right on top of all what will hit us.

 

[saschaxx]

They say he got a new medicament and reacted bad to it, but I don't buy that story.

I guess his system collapsed because he learned what will go down in the next months and he will be right on top of all what will hit us.

I dont buy no story from no politician and no bank since years no more. Every housewife knows that u cannot spend more money as you earn , or you will have to PAY ( interest ) .
Vicky Vette + Nina Mercedes for president, one in Europe, one in the US ... but I think these are two intelligent ladys, the are not interested in da job ....lol :rofl::rofl:

 

[saschaxx]

Whenever a politician or a banker tells me : * good morning sir * , I open the door first and take a look outside ...maybe it´s mindnight ..lol

 

[Red Spyder]

well put. i remember my economic teacher mentioning how capitalism will fail. if the poorer get poorer, then there isnt enough rich folks to keep it going. but theres a secret to how capitalism works, DONT BE GREEDY!! share the wealth, but try telling all those assholes who say " im not sharing my money. i went to school for 4-8 yrs. my money." but it just doesnt work that way. you have to share.

Exactamundo!! Greed is not good. Nothing wrong with making money, after all, how can I help the poor if I'm barely keeping myself afloat? And I applaud and admire people who succeed and do things for their community BUT AS LONG AS IT'S NOT JUST GIVING MONEY AWAY. They got to invest in the community in a way that they can help the poor improve themselves. And of course lots of rich folk do help the poor, ever heard of the Gates Foundation? That's just one example. Now, it's not possible that every single one of us will live like a megabillionare. Personally, I'm not that ambitious. But it is possible to live an economically comfortable life, it's all about establishing priorities (i.e. getting your **** together and not waste all your paycheck in ***** and *****) and make sure to live within your means.

A little side opinion here...you're not supposed to make a living on minimum wage. I can see you all's faces :eek: WHAT? Back when I was stuck in a dead end job (Wal-Mart) the only people who worked there and were making a decent living were managers and full time people (bookkeeping, back office people). Part timers didn't earn enough to support a ****** but most of the part timers were students or housewives just making a little extra money, and of course, there were some people who didn't have or wanted to get an education and that was the best (honest) job they could get.

Now, I just came up with this thread since I didn't see anyone else coming up with it and the situation in Greece has been going on for a while. Of course, I saw a few threads ripping right wingers, so I thought about evening up the board

 

[saschaxx]

Now, I just came up with this thread since I didn't see anyone else coming up with it and the situation in Greece has been going on for a while. Of course, I saw a few threads ripping right wingers, so I thought about evening up the board

No bad idea man, rep to you !
If Greece would be a single person, he would be *in-mate* .

 

[Ulysses31]

It's like someone who borrows a lot of money and the interest is so high they can just about pay the interest off let alone reducing the actual initial debt. The Greek government cooked their books as it were to conceal this debt which is why it's suddenly popped up as if it happened overnight. Any bailout will have to be led by Germany as they have the strongest economy. I heard Greek firms used to pay their workers bonuses for coming to work early, you can kinda see where all the money was ******.

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

If body hair could be used as currency, Greece would be the richest country on the planet.

 

[Ulysses31]

Socrates, Plato and Aristotle must be turning in their graves. We should exhume them, extract some DNA, clone them and then get them to run Greece.

 

[saschaxx]

If body hair could be used as currency, Greece would be the richest country on the planet.

You´re wrong, cause them body-hair belongs to us ! :rofl:

 

[saschaxx]

I heard Greek firms used to pay their workers bonuses for coming to work early, you can kinda see where all the money was ******.

And bonuses for an extra language, and bonuses if they come * just in time * to work , 13th + 14th salary per year , extra vacations , and bonuses, bonuses, bonuses ...especially for them civil servants. U should read the German *STERN* magazine, u will fall off ur chair. :rofl:

Fucking corrupted civil servants ....

 

[saschaxx]

Socrates, Plato and Aristotle must be turning in their graves. We should exhume them, extract some DNA, clone them and then get them to run Greece.

These poor guys NEVER would come back to Greece, they´d prefer to live in Northern Siberia I bet my azz.

 

[Ulysses31]

These poor guys NEVER would come back to Greece, they´d prefer to live in Northern Siberia I bet my azz.

They'd probably go somewhere more pleasant like Baghdad or Gaza

 

[bustybbwlover]

Are we witnessing the failure of "liberal" economic policies?

no just one of the lovely nuances of capitalism in general

 

[Facetious]

Exactamundo!! Greed is not good. Nothing wrong with making money, after all, how can I help the poor if I'm barely keeping myself afloat? And I applaud and admire people who succeed and do things for their community BUT AS LONG AS IT'S NOT JUST GIVING MONEY AWAY. They got to invest in the community in a way that they can help the poor improve themselves.

Exactly ! As a good example : Do Not Feed The Bears at Yosemite or any other National Park or forest! :1orglaugh