Your God Given Rights!

[Jagger69]

Just to play devils advocate here, I would say if you really believe that, then prove it. In that respect people that think there is a religious basis to rights can be no less wrong than you, unless you can show either there is no God, or if there is that he didn't give people any rights just because of the fact they exist.

I guess I could be a smart-ass and ask you to prove that my assertions are NOT correct, but, quite obviously, this cannot be done. The discussion here is certainly quite subjective so perhaps I should have prefaced my statements by making it clear that my stand on this question is strictly my considered opinion. However, in response to your post, I would ask you to simply look around you. Look at yourself and ask "What rights did God give me that separates me from other creatures?". To me, the answer is obvious. Nothing....except free-will. ******* have the same right to live, to breathe, to eat, to *****, to ****, ****, fuck and have baby ******* as we do. However, these are all instinctive. None of them come from a conscious process of decision-making based upon the question "What do I want to do?". Of course, this is an extension of human intelligence, which, by transferrence, obviously also separates us from other creatures but would certainly not be confused with a "right"....more like a "gift". Again, in my way of thinking, the only "right" that is derived from this greater intelligence level is the right to free-will. Those of you with a more religious take on the universe can disagree....after all, it's your free-will right to do so!

Now, whether God exists or doesn't is really not the debate....it's whether or not certain "rights" as we call them are inherently ours simply by His divine providence. Let's assume God does exist (whatever that might mean). Your stance is based on the assumption that there is both an omnipotent and omniscient God if indeed he has granted us these rights. If this is true and He has granted us these rights, where in the fuck have they been and what the hell has He been doing for all those thousands of years when people had virtually no rights? It was not until social philosophers of the late 18th century created an enlightenment that led to the aforementioned documents that, luckily for many of us, are still being observed and adhered to today. Now, it may well have been God who had these philosophers do this but the act itself was carried out by men. To go to the next step and declare that these rights are therefore "God-given" is a serious stretch to say the least unless you are willing to admit that everything, good or bad, is God-given.

And that, my friend, is a whole other debate....

Great discussion and post, d-rock! :thumbsup:

 

[RealMenSwallow]

God given rights are acceptable rights for all human beings. Rights that are sometimes taken away, through things like slavery. Now obviously where ever you live, you have no rights, this is why one would take the allotted amount of time to complain about the rights of the US. I am deeply saddened to hear this. Clearly you must either live under a communist regime or in the jungle where only the basic rules of survival exist. For which your opinion of the US is dead on accurate.

But for those of us who live here, who also have a similar opinion: there is a cure. Go do something you've always wanted to do, but known you'll get arrested for. Go steal a car. Or pick up prostitutes. Hell, even become a prostitute. Turn your world into Grand Theft Auto. Do whatever the flying fuck you want, and let's just see what happens. These things call "rights" protect everyone from doing whatever the fuck they want.

....In theory at least....:bawling:

 

[Jagger69]

You're so far off. I think I'll laugh. :1orglaugh

Instead of simply laughing me off, why don't you enlighten me, oh wise one? Present a lucid and convincing argument and I am all ears, believe me.

And please give this "socialist" bullshit a rest....my views on this subject are not based on a political ideology so try another avenue, OK?

 

[Jagger69]

Remember it was the "intellectuals" that elected Hitler.

Just plain inaccurate, WEW. Hitler was appointed chancellor by von Hindenburg, not elected.

 

[Will E Worm]

Just plain inaccurate, WEW. Hitler was appointed chancellor by von Hindenburg, not elected.

Nope and you are what you are.

Also, anyone who says that the guns or any rights should be taken from the American people is guilty of treason and is a traitor.

I heard Europe and Canada might take people like that.

Hitler came to power with 75 percent of the vote, and this is because so-called intellectuals gathered support behind him.

Article

 

[Jagger69]

Nope and you are what you are.

LOL....I don't know where this guy got his "facts" but there was no election, dude. Look it up. Hitler was appointed chancellor on January 30, 1933 by German President Paul von Hindenburg. It is a matter of historical fact. There are hundreds of internet sources that back it up. Here's one from an extremely reliable historical website:

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/h-chancl.htm

If you refuse to acknowledge irrefutable facts, I have no where else to go with you my friend.

Also, anyone who says that the guns or any rights should be taken from the American people is guilty of treason and is a traitor.

I heard Europe and Canada might take people like that.



Article

As Robert DiNiro would say....."Are you talkin' to me????". I don't know what the fuck you are talking about pal....nowhere in my post does it say that I am for the dissolution of the second amendment. Have some substance to your accusations before you just arbitrarily throw them out there.

BUT....just for the sake of argument let's say I was indeed for the dissolution of the second amendment (or any other amendment for that matter). You are saying that I would then be a traitor and guilty of treason??? What kind of twisted, fucked-up pretzel logic is that? Read my signature and you'll know where I stand on the protection of constitutional rights.....especially the one that says I am free to express myself no matter what you or any other reactionary extremist has to say about the subject. I will, however, protect and defend your right to make a total ass out of yourself by making such statements.

Wow....

 

[Dawn]

What is the point about intellectuals? They are fascist in essence now? And they are also comploting for socialism to take over the world?

So the intellectuals are secretly working to subvert democracies to establish social-fascist governements?

 

[Dawn]

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are nothing more than a foundation. Foundations are created to help support any further additions and are used as a shoulder to lean on for stability. Foundations aren't indestructible though. Foundations can only support so many additions before they begin to weaken themselves, and once that happens, the whole entire foundation will have to be ripped up and completely re-done.

I could add a thing or two but basically, in my opinion, you nailed the truth somewhere in your reasoning and argumentation Chief

:2 cents:

EDIT:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

That's the spirit that should be preserved and will never get old: the Preambule.

 

[Baill Inneraora]

Also, anyone who says that the guns or any rights should be taken from the American people is guilty of treason and is a traitor.
Article

I guess by that logic, anyone who wanted to ban flag burning through support of the Flag Protection Amendment is a traitor because it would deny other citizens their 1st amendment rights.

 

[titsrock]

I have launched into alot of this discussion in the 2nd Amend. thread. So I won't rehash my views here again. But...

The Chef said this

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are nothing more than a foundation. Foundations are created to help support any further additions and are used as a shoulder to lean on for stability. Foundations aren't indestructible though. Foundations can only support so many additions before they begin to weaken themselves, and once that happens, the whole entire foundation will have to be ripped up and completely re-done.

I'm not saying that we're at that point with the Constitution and Bill of Rights, but the foundation was built over 200+ years ago, and it's going to have to be replaced sooner than later or everything this nation has built on top of it is going to crumble.

I agree with Paragraph 1. I'm not sure I agree with Paragraph 2. I don't think we will need to replace the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. They are what makes America, America.

HOWEVER...the Founding Fathers and the 18th Century Farmer were not prescient beings. We do have to trust that Knowledge and Human Intelligence GROWS and therefore some ideas that address modern times need to be implemented into the Constitution as new amendments.

I believe Corporate Lobbying is a major problem with our Gov't and restrictions need to be placed on it. This means "reworking" the section about the right to petition gov't in the 1st Amendment.

I believe there are too many guns today and this has adverse affects on our society and culture. Modern weaponry is much more deadly than the musket and the flintlock ******. So, yes, the 2nd Amendment needs to be reviewed.

I believe a Universal Healthcare Amendment should be added to the Constitution.

I am in favor of uniting America and breaking down regional biases. When Hurricanes wipe out New Orleans and Florida this affects me even though I don't live in those areas. I do not believe in a states-only:dunno: approach to some things. I believe a strong Federal Gov't SHOULD LEAD the reconstruction of the World Trade Center and to leave this to New York and petty real estate squabbles AFFECTS us all.

 

[Will E Worm]

What is the point about intellectuals? They are fascist in essence now? And they are also comploting for socialism to take over the world?

So the intellectuals are secretly working to subvert democracies to establish social-fascist governements?

They think much too highly of themselves and are easily deceived.

So yes, they are the pawns, as are a lot of the college students that are taught by Socialist in their ivory towers.

America is not a Democracy, we are a Constitutional Republic.

LOL....I don't know where this guy got his "facts" but there was no election, dude.

Wrong. :tongue:

The intellectuals supported and backed Hitler.


Also, Hitler wasn't a "right-winger", he was a Socialist.

"Hitler repeatedly called for national renewal. He and his National Socialists benefited from the recent upheaval in the Soviet Union and the rise in fear and disgust for Bolshevism. His party's posters read:

If you want your country to go Bolshevik, vote Communist. If you want to remain free Germans, vote for the National Socialists."

Socialism = ****

 

[Dawn]

They think much too highly of themselves and are easily deceived.

So yes, they are the pawns, as are a lot of the college students that are taught by Socialist in their ivory towers.

America is not a Democracy, we are a Constitutional Republic.

I'm sure it's not your goal but you have no idea how much it's insulting for me and other people with universitarian formations, Will E.



Sidenote:
I vote liberal in a social-democracy like Canada.
I would vote Libertarian in a Constitutional Republic like USA.
But... i'm a subverted pawn according to your statements :dunno:

 

[Will E Worm]

I'm sure it's not your goal but you have no idea how much it's insulting for me and other people with universitarian formations, Will E.

Sidenote:
I vote liberal in a social-democracy like Canada.
I would vote Libertarian in a Constitutional Republic like USA.
But... i'm a subverted pawn according to your statements :dunno:

I didn't say everyone in colleges are pawns. But, too many are.

But, I doubt anyone in the National election is going to help.

You have to start at the local and state levels.

 

[assholebythedoor]

It shouldn't be altered in any way shape or form. It should be upheld to the furthest extent to abide by. Nobody has the reason to change civilization or the manner of which is placed within our grasp. people should not have the right to say they have it all figured out. When looking at our economy and the state of disbelief followed by a union of communist disguised as political assists. Bending the truth and leading us to disarray. There should be a proven asset among today's society to tell other individuals with the same goals and aspects. They are not allowed to tread on common ground and not be looked at as a thief or particular criminal and adviser of irregular injustice. There should be a reason why, how and whom which determines self gratitude. Without a law for understanding the policies of correction. We as Americans will be left behind


Marvin Lee Gray

 

[Jagger69]

Wrong. :tongue:

The intellectuals supported and backed Hitler.

LOL....no one will ever accuse you a being an intellectual, that's for sure. Sad when a man refuses to face facts even when they are plainly presented to him.

Also, Hitler wasn't a "right-winger", he was a Socialist.

"Hitler repeatedly called for national renewal. He and his National Socialists benefited from the recent upheaval in the Soviet Union and the rise in fear and disgust for Bolshevism. His party's posters read:

If you want your country to go Bolshevik, vote Communist. If you want to remain free Germans, vote for the National Socialists."

Socialism = ****

You parrot words like "right-winger" and "socialist" like you know something about them. A national socialist is about as far right-wing as you can get. If you want to pretend that Hitler was anything but an extreme right-wing nutball then go ahead and keep trying to fool yourself. It's pretty obvious you don't want to have a dialogue so there really isn't any point in continuing this with you. Have a pleasant evening and please don't forget to take your medication.

 

[titsrock]

I didn't say everyone in colleges are pawns. But, too many are.

How many is too many? Can you cite any actual statistic for this claim?

But, I doubt anyone in the National election is going to help.
You have to start at the local and state levels.

Ah. So the Wackoes are now going to "start at the local and state levels." Start what, *********** gas masks for the pending revolution?

It will be very comical to see how such a rabid "Libertarian" mob fights the Republicans for "control" of "Conservativism."

 

[Dawn]

It will be very comical to see how such a rabid "Libertarian" mob fights the Republicans for "control" of "Conservativism."

Especially with few "left" libertarians in the mix!

 

[LBP 76]

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government."

That's one reason we have the right to own weapons.

To protect ourselves from a destructive and despotic government that would take away our rights and make us slaves.

I'll say it again...how is your rifle/handgun gonna protect you from a B-2 bomber dropping a JDAM on you from 30,000 feet?
If the government wants you dead...your dead.

 

[assholebythedoor]

not necessarily there could be different outcomes of the situation.

 

[Will E Worm]

Ah. So the Wackoes are now going to "start at the local and state levels." Start what, *********** gas masks for the pending revolution?

There will be no "revolution". that is communism's wording.
It will be a restoration of the Republic.

I'll say it again...how is your rifle/handgun gonna protect you from a B-2 bomber dropping a JDAM on you from 30,000 feet?
If the government wants you dead...your dead.

Think again. Somalia kicked America out of its country.

No one can pay a mercenary or solider enough to fight a war that is not theirs.

Go to youtube and watch some videos about Militias, they have the determination and a lot of firepower. Including, Flame throwers, and automatic weapons, tanks and so on.

not necessarily there could be different outcomes of the situation.

There can be different outcomes.