Your Thoughts On The Pace Of Baseball

Mayhem

Banned
MLB players want 'voice' in changes

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/1...ving-voice-concerning-changes-speed-pace-play

In an offseason in which baseball has committed itself to speeding up the pace of games, several players told ESPN.com this week that players want "a voice" in this process and they're concerned that, so far at least, no one except the players' union has asked them what they thought.

"Players are very interested in being involved in these discussions," veteran pitcher Kevin Slowey said. "We just want to be part of a collaborative effort to address these issues. And we want to have a voice. We don't want to overpower any other voices. We'd just like to have our voice heard."

"It's just important for us to have a say," Mets outfielder Curtis Granderson said. "It doesn't need to be all 750 of us. It's just important to have three or four players who can say, 'Hey, we've noticed this, and we feel this way.'"

No active players were among the seven members appointed last month by commissioner Bud Selig to a pace-of-game study committee. MLBPA executive director Tony Clark is one of the members, along with MLB's Joe Torre, Mets general manager Sandy Alderson, Red Sox chairman Tom Werner, Red Sox partner Michael Gordon, commissioner-elect Rob Manfred and Braves president John Schuerholz, who is the committee chairman.

Manfred told ESPN.com, in an email, that Clark "represents all major-league players and was included on the committee to give players a voice. Tony and I have discussed the fact that it is important for players to interact directly with the committee as the process moves forward. Tony is in the best position to select representative players that should be involved."

Manfred also said his "expectation" is that, at some point in the process, the committee "will hear directly from players."

Players who did not want to speak publicly, however, told ESPN.com they're concerned that player involvement in these discussions will be limited.

Those players said they were disappointed by the lack of players on the committee, but Clark expressed hope that players will be actively consulted and listened to before the committee recommends any changes to the game.

"Player involvement is very important to this discussion or any other discussion, but particularly related to those involved with the game being played on the field," Clark said. "We're interested in having the dialogue. Our guys have concerns, and they're interested in being part of the solution. And now we'll see where it goes."

In order to gauge player opinion, ESPN.com reached out to players who have been active in the union and have been involved in the past in helping to lay the groundwork for change on important issues such as replay and baseball's Joint Drug Agreement. Not all of those players were willing to be quoted. However, they outlined several areas of concern over what they are seeing and hearing about baseball's pace-of-game approach:

• That too much of the blame for slowing the game -- and most of the responsibility for fixing it -- seems to have been placed on players. Players complained that Selig has made a number of comments about how "aggravated" he is with hitters who step out of the box after every pitch and start "adjusting all the crap [they] have on." That tone, said one player, "isn't helping."

• That almost none of the talk so far has been about other ways to speed up games, particularly shortening commercial breaks between innings.

• That there has been very little discussion about how modern analytics may be slowing games, such as the emphasis on hitters taking more pitches to run up pitch counts and extensive matchup information that encourages more pitching changes and substitutions.

That while players are generally in favor of shorter games, they haven't been shown survey data documenting exactly what fans are telling baseball it needs to change and what those changes would accomplish.

"I would guess that players have no problem with games being shorter," Diamondbacks reliever Brad Ziegler said. "But if you're talking about pitchers who have built up a routine for 15 or 20 years and now they're going to be asked to change it, that's something they should discuss with the players first."

Ziegler was referring to pace-of-game innovations now being studied in the Arizona Fall League that include 20-second pitch clocks for pitchers with no one on base, and rules that require hitters to keep one foot in the batter's box.

All players whom ESPN.com spoke with said they were in favor of having those measures tested in the Fall League, but that they don't want to see them automatically implemented without extensive study and conversation. While players agree there's a need to eliminate dead time, they are worried about the possibility they could feel rushed at an important juncture in a game.

"If I don't feel right, or I'm not on the same wavelength with my catcher, I want to have the ability to step off and regroup, or call the catcher to the mound," Slowey said. "Any one pitch can change a ball game. And any one game can change the course of a season. I don't think we want to look back and say, 'Who knows what might have been if that hadn't happened.'"

Granderson said he played in the Arizona Fall League a decade ago when similar rules were being studied, and the restrictions on hitters leaving the box were so effective that "it's something I've done ever since," he said. But he expressed fears about the unintended consequences of having a pitch clock on the scoreboard in a packed stadium.

"The interesting thing is, what if fans in the stadium start counting down all at once?" he asked. "You could have a situation where there are 10 seconds on the clock, and fans are yelling, '3-2-1,' and messing the pitcher up. ... And the next thing you know, the hitter and the pitcher are both rushing to the clock because they don't want a violation."

Manfred attempted to allay those fears by reiterating he felt it was "important to have player input on any on-field changes," and that any rule changes would have to be bargained with the union. But before it reaches that point, players remain hopeful that their input will be solicited and valued.

"We're certainly open to hearing anything the other side wants to tackle," said Slowey, who pitched for the Marlins last year and is currently a free agent. "I don't think great ideas always come from one side. They can come from anywhere. The more people you listen to, the better chance you have of finding a solution. ...

"My hope," he went on, "is that something they have on their schedule is to reach out to us and say, 'Get us a dozen, or two dozen, pitchers who can give us input on this. And the same goes with batters, on the rules about stepping out of the box. Our hope is that they'll say, 'We want to sit down with you guys because we want to get this right.'"

We've only had 160 years to get used to the length of a game. I find it particularly ironic that now that everyone has an electronic device glued to the end of their nose, now it's important to get them back on the street so they can get hit by a bus.

It also occurs to me that the only people complaining...are the people complaining. I honestly don't detect any great desire among the proletariat to speed up the games.
they haven't been shown survey data documenting exactly what fans are telling baseball it needs to change
Exactly. I don't think any such data exists.
 
Hitters just need to stop stepping out of box walking away to readjust their batting gloves.

NBA players shoot two free throws faster from a pitcher throwing two pitches.

Second, catcher should give pitchers a head nod or something when there is only a runner at 2nd if the catcher feels the runner is leaning to far off of 2nd. See this to many times in this situation where the pitcher will stare at 2nd for about 15-20 seconds each pitch watching the runner.
 

Jagger69

Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
The fact that there are few, if any, time constraints on a baseball game is one of the things that creates a distinction between it and virtually every other major sport. There's no clock to limit performance....nine players play nine innings or, if needed, as many innings as it takes to determine a winner. That being said....games nowadays are excessively long in my opinion. It's not unusual for just a regular 9-inning game to go 3 1/2 or even 4 hours. I don't know what can be done about it and, as the OP stated, I don't feel any particular overriding need to do anything about it. If you're a baseball fan, you'll watch as long as you have to. If you're not a baseball fan, you're not watching to begin with so what difference does it make?
 

bobjustbob

Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
Cutting the commercial time between innings would be the easiest and least intrusive way to shorten the game. It's also the last thing the owners and networks want to do. But that's a full of shit concern considering that they fill the airwaves with live reads, crawler spots, and billboard time during these longer innings. 15 minutes lost selling beer and dogs at the stadium won't be popular either. It wouldn't hurt to get those batters back into the box. That shit is annoying. Maybe not with a clock but having umpires give that subtle hint that the strike zone may start growing wider for these antics.
 
baseball is so slow in my opinion that i would rather watch old people eat corn on the cob without their dentures for an hour than watch a whole baseball game
 
baseball is so slow in my opinion that i would rather watch old people eat corn on the cob without their dentures for an hour than watch a whole baseball game

Would you rather have grandma take the corn cob using it as a prop to teach a friend how to perform fellatio? I might agree to sit through a few innings to avoid that. As a Dodger fan I show up in the 3rd inning and leave in the 7th anyway.


tommy-lasorda-asleep-dodgers-game.jpg
 
i dont know what is wrong with you but your posts make me laugh my ass off alot

Thanks. I think Bob still worries about me.

th2.jpg

"Don't move her into your house."

th2.jpg

"You move one into the house and the rest of the family will follow.
Remember why we pay hookers, so they will leave. "


th2.jpg

"That orange cone and yellow tape blocking your
bathroom door is there for a reason. I know what you eat."


th2.jpg

"Get off your dead ass, toss your keys to a guy to finish your kitchen,
and pack up your bong for a motel for a week. "
 

bobjustbob

Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
bob is angry but wise it seems

Angry? I'm a cuddly little fuzz ball.

About Dino, I don't think it is worry, more like concern. I've seen this kind of behavior before. So as not to derail this thread I'll tell the story on Dino's No more hooker thread.
 
If you ask any ten people who are not fans of baseball what their number one issue with the game is and I guarantee that most of those ten will cite the length of games. As the old Detroit skipper Jim Leyland use to say…. “Baseball is a marathon, not a sprint.” Baseball is calculated from every pitch, every swing, and every throw. There are mound visits, there are pitching changes, there are pinch runners and there are pinch hitters. Baseball is a slow game, and some would say it is like a game of chess. With the institution of expanded replay and manager challenges the game has been stretched out even longer. Don’t get me wrong, I’m in favor of replay and getting the call right. But it does add to the length of some games.

Pitching and everything associated with pitching is the real culprit for the increase in the length of games. In the year 1963, there was an average of 4.8 pitchers used per batter in a 9 inning game, and in the year 2014, that number climbed to 7.7. In a day and age of bull pen specialists, it’s very common to see 2 and even 3 pitching changes in one inning in late stages of close ball games. Managers have the tools to create match ups they want, and they use them. More pitching changes leads to more mound visits. It also leads to more time for warm up pitches and more time for a pitcher and catcher to confer on how they should pitch to the hitter at the plate.

Check out fangraphs.com for some real interesting statistics on this topic. Even when pitchers are doing what they’re supposed to do, get batters out, they’re dragging out ball games. Strikeouts have been on the rise since the end of the steroid era, and this increases the number of pitches thrown per at bat, which drags out plate appearances.

How do we fix slow games and find a way to pick up the pace? The truth is, most of the keys are already in the rulebook, but they’re not enforced. There are rules that exist that are supposed to speed up pitchers. There is a 12 second pitch clock, but it is rarely enforced. Umpires could limit the number of warm up pitches that are given whenever there is a pitching change – this should be obvious as they’ve been warming up in the bull pen beforehand.

However, after everything has been said and done, baseball attendance is at an all-time high. So clearly, the length of baseball games is not driving fans away from the ballpark. Perhaps we should just leave well enough alone.
 

bobjustbob

Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
The game really has evolved even within the recent decades we have been watching it. Expansion waters down the player pool. Specialized players have been developed and used as a strategy. Look at the huge surge of the relief closer in the 70's and 80's. Then we get 8th inning guys and lefthanders to pitch to one batter. Do these tactics add to the game's time? Sure, but the team has to assemble a group of players ton have the best chance of winning on a daily basis. We just saw the Tigers get ousted because of not enough talent to hold leads.

I'd like to go back to Randy Johnson and run some numbers about him. 618 games pitched with 166 losses. Mind you that some of these games were pitched in relief but when he took the mound in all situations, there was only a 27% chance he would lose the game. His average game went 6 2/3. In the playoffs he came out of the pen to pitch. We don't see this kind of durability today. Everything is pitch count and saving the arm for tomorrow. There is no such thing as a complete game anymore.
 

Mayhem

Banned
Having just watched Game 2 ALCS, this is the game that these people want to shorten. But which part? Except for the fact that Baltimore is down 2 games, this was great baseball.
 

bobjustbob

Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
The Nets are going to play a preseason basketball game with 11 minute quarters. I don't know who's complaining about the length of basketball games but somehow the league wants to try this. There is a complaint that basketball is all about the last 2 minutes and that turns into a foul and timeout fest. Cutting out 4 minutes of regular play isn't going to address that problem.
 

Ace Bandage

The one and only.
Don't fuck with any of it.

I don't want to change the number of innings or games played. I don't want automatic intentional walks. I don't want a clock on the pitcher. I don't want to limit the number of times hitters can step out of the box. I don't want to make batters keep one foot in the box. Baseball is a game not determined by a clock. Let's keep it that way.

If they shorten commercial breaks, that decreases revenue. Nobody is going for that. If you don't like baseball how it is now, don't fucking watch it. The last time they added something new, they let the junior circuit add the DH rule... arguably my least favorite rule in all of professional sports. So let's not fuck with anything else.
 

Mayhem

Banned
Don't fuck with any of it.

I don't want to change the number of innings or games played. I don't want automatic intentional walks. I don't want a clock on the pitcher. I don't want to limit the number of times hitters can step out of the box. I don't want to make batters keep one foot in the box. Baseball is a game not determined by a clock. Let's keep it that way.

If they shorten commercial breaks, that decreases revenue. Nobody is going for that. If you don't like baseball how it is now, don't fucking watch it. The last time they added something new, they let the junior circuit add the DH rule... arguably my least favorite rule in all of professional sports. So let's not fuck with anything else.

^^^ What he said.

After thinking about this further, I have two additional thoughts:

1. This isn't being pushed by baseball fans at all. This entire issue resides with the networks who would be showing a "Family Guy" episode if there wasn't a game going on.

2. There is no viable change that you can make to the pace of baseball that isn't going to be responded to with more pitching changes. Meaning, the changes will cause themselves to become irrelevant, while changing the fundamental nature of the game.

I wish I heard more baseball fans speaking out against this travesty.
 
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