What was Hitler's endgame?

Thought we could get some interesting topics on the front page for once.

Can any historians enlighten us on what Hitler's goal was? He thought the aryan people should rule the world and wanted to expand the Reich, but to what extent? Global domination wasn't practical back then, so invading North America clearly wasn't going to happen. Even with the sinking of the Bismarck, the Royal Navy was too powerful, not to mention the US Navy. Getting enough troops and war machines over seas wouldn't work.

Most empires want expansion, but was there any documented plans about global domination? Did he even believe it was feasible?
 

Mr. Daystar

In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
Actually, he was madman enough to believe he could. Photos were discovered of the New York City skyline, taken from German U-boats, that were in New York harbor. He signed a pact with Russia, then turned on them, and I personally believe after Japan did some of his dirty work, he would have turned on them too. In fact, if he wasn't so arrogant, stubborn, and paranoid, and trusted, and listened to his Generals....the war would have been much different. We still would have kicked his ass, but we very well may have had to drop atomic bombs on Berlin, before we dropped any on Japan. Of course this is just my quickly typed out, personal opinion, and I can't say I did research, or plotted a strategy to come to this conclusion. But it does seem somewhat plausible to me. I'm curious as to others thoughts, and what flaws they may find in my theory.
 
Hitler had plans to invade the United States using rocket-pack-wearing super soldiers. There was a documentary about it called The Rocketeer by Disney Pictures.
 

Jagger69

Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
World domination without a doubt. He felt it was Aryan destiny. Those who survived outside the Aryan "greater Germany" (after the war-inspired border expansion to obtain lebensraum) would serve as vassals to support the infrastrucure of Deutschland and the "Thousand-Year Reich".

It's all right there in Mein Kampf if you can stand to read it.
 

xfire

New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
It's all right there in Mein Kampf if you can stand to read it.

^^ That. His immediate plan was to destroy the Soviet Union and establish "living space" for Aryans. Hitler established the order he planned to export to the rest of the world, konzentrationslager or concentration camps for nations that were conquered. Good thing he didn't wait five years before starting the war, the technology Germany had in development could have swung the tide if it had been about that much further along.
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
To establish a homeland for the German people.

Wipe out Communism.


I don't see anything wrong with these two goals.
 
As others have said, world domination. This was evidenced by his highly illogical and rushed ways of carrying things out; attacking Russia, using way too many resources helping the Italians, slaughtering millions of people, etc. Had he been more patient and logical, he could have gotten a lot closer to his dream than he actually did. Back in those days, Germany would have crushed anybody in a one-on-one war.


One things for sure ; Eurovision would have been very, very different.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl2: Posts like this one make me glad I'm back.
 
To establish a homeland for the German people.

Wipe out Communism.


I don't see anything wrong with these two goals.

Isn't Germany a homeland for the German people? And wiping out communism is a laudable goal but not when you're willing to kill millions of people to do it and what you'd replace it with would be just as bad if not worse.


If the U.S. carrier fleet had been caught at Pearl Harbor or if Midway had gone the other way, Japan would have had free reign in the pacific. They could've then gone on to seize or destroy the Panama Canal locks. The U.S. west coast would've been ripe for a carrier bombing campaign and invasion. The Japanese did land troops on American soil in Alaska. If Hitler would've maintained his alliance with Stalin at least until Britain had fallen and the western alliance was defeated, the U.S. would've been isolated, still an awoken giant for sure but a much tougher if not impossible slog. I think it would've been inevitable that Germany and Japan along with possibly the Soviets would've eventually dealt with the U.S. once and for all.
 

John_8581

FreeOnes Lifetime Member
By Hitler attacking Stalin's Russia, history was repeated, as that was the same thing that hurt Napoleon in 1812. Germany could not have a war with two fronts and survive...

STDiva said:
... Getting enough troops and war machines over seas wouldn't work....

The Battle of The Bulge was a dreadful defeat for the German army, because their Panzer tanks ran out of gasoline.
 

Mayhem

Banned
I honestly don't think an invasion of North America was ever in the cards (other than in a *sigh* someday kind of way). He would have taken the bomb/rocket the East Coast route if he could have, but to help him out in Europe. But I don't think that even during his biggest coke/morphine binges did he ever seriously consider the possibility.
 

BlkHawk

Closed Account
How long of a rant do you want? This might be quite long. Initially he didn't want the non-aggression pact with the Soviets, he wanted an alliance with the UK. He considered the UK descended from Aryan stock, and felt they would view communism as a greater threat to Europe than Fascism. That obviously didn't happen, hence the treaty with the Soviets to buy him time in the East.

He figured once Poland, and France fell that the UK would than ask for peace terms, again didn't happen. Once realizing the Luftwaffe wasn't causing the UK to drop out, and an invasion wasn't possible he turned to the invasion of the USSR. He made three bad assumptions here.

1. Believing the UK didn't have the resources with the uboat blockade to mount a successful landing in mainland Europe. He was partially correct, he didn't count on the USA getting involved, and supplying the needed resources.

2. He had Mussolini, and Italy as a partner (thankfully for Europe though:)). Italy already occupied Albania, a small part of Southern France, Libya, Italian East Africa (basically Somalia and a bit of others), and Abyssinia (Ethiopia). Basically Mussolini wanted a bigger share of the pie, and some of the so called glory. He started attacks into Egypt-Sudan from Libya and IEA, he eventually lost IEA, and Abyssinia to the British, Australians, New Zealanders, and British India. His forces from Libya were repelled and driven back deep into Libya. He invaded Greece from Albania, and stalled out, than losing ground there as well. It was now 1941, and Mussolini asked for help, Hitler started forming the Africa Korps in January, and deployed them in February. He also diverted a large army to the Balkins to take Yugoslavia, then Greece. In doing this he delayed Operation Barbarossa (the invasion of the USSR) from early Spring 1941 till late June 1941. This gave the army less time to accomplish their goals before the Russian Winter started.

3. He planned on defeating the USSR the way he beat France. Break through the front lines with several spearheads then with several pincer movements cut off and capture the bulk of the Red Army. Than capture Moscow and force terms on the Soviets, to surrender everything West of Moscow to the Reich, and let the Soviets have to the east to establish a puppet state like Vichy France. After he consolidated, and depopulated his conquests in Eastern Europe, and the Caucasus' he probably would have finished off the Soviets, and forced terms on the British. The first part worked he captured a great deal of equipment, and over a million Soviet POWs. Army group South got bogged down in the Caucasus region, Army Group North stopped at Leningrad and laid siege for three years, Army Group Center got to within thirty miles of Moscow befor being diverted South to help take the Caucasus oil fields. Then Winter hit, momentum was lost and the Eastern Front became the most brutal war in human history for the next three years.

I haven't read up on this since the nineties, so more recent historians may have uncovered more information. From what I read then, after taking Moscow, he wanted the British to sign a peace treaty where they keep the islands, and the colonial empire, without Eygpt. Germany would have Europe, part of West Asia, and North Africa. That's where Hitler probably would have stopped as they didnt have the manpower or resources to go further. His successors may have tried to go beyond that. He never intended for a war with the USA in fact that didn't happen until Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, the USA declared war on Japan, then Germany, and Italy declared war on the United States as part of their treaty with Japan. The USA then declared war on Germany and Italy.

As for one poster suggesting Japan would have invaded the Western US, never would have happened, not in the forties, probably not even the fifties, if ever. For proof look up what historians have uncovered about the proposed invasion of Australia. Prior to the Battle of the Coral Sea the IJN (Imperial Japanese Navy) proposed an invasion of just North Australia. The IJA (Imperial Japanese Army) opposed this as unfeasible, as nearly three quarters of the army was already deployed in Korea, Manchukuo, French Indo China, and Burma. If the IJA knew they didn't have the troops needed for the much smaller, much closer to supply lines, and much less populated area of North Australia, than they damn well knew they couldn't touch the West Coast of the US with an invasion army. The part of Alaska they did take were the far Western Aleutian islands. Damn near the center of the Northern Pacific, per Google, that's 2,700 miles West of California.

As I said I read most of this in the nineties, so new discoveries may have been made, plus I may have forgotten a few things. I could cite sources, but I'm tired and I doubt few people will read this book anyway.

Sorry for the long post.
 
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A Japanese invasion of the American mainland would've been far fetched but with the U.S. pacific fleet decimated the west coast would have definitely been vulnerable to one if the Japanese had had the resources. At that point, Midway would've been a forward operating base for the Japanese if not also Hawaii.

But a full scale invasion of the U.S. would had to have happened after Japan and Germany secured victory in their respective theaters and consolidated their won territories. That could've been years or decades.

The most determining factor in this alternate history of course would be which country could deploy the atomic bomb first. The Germans were pursuing a nuclear weapon but it was not priority. Had Germany been first across that finish line along with their advanced ballistic missile program, it would've been a U.S. delegation signing surrender papers on a battleship in Chesapeake Bay, no invasion needed.
 

BlkHawk

Closed Account
A Japanese invasion of the American mainland would've been far fetched but with the U.S. pacific fleet decimated the west coast would have definitely been vulnerable to one if the Japanese had had the resources. At that point, Midway would've been a forward operating base for the Japanese if not also Hawaii.

Resources were the key, the Japanese knew they didn't have the available troops, the Americans didn't until after the war.

But a full scale invasion of the U.S. would had to have happened after Japan and Germany secured victory in their respective theaters and consolidated their won territories. That could've been years or decades.

This, if invasion of North America happened it wouldn't have been until the 1950's or later.

The most determining factor in this alternate history of course would be which country could deploy the atomic bomb first. The Germans were pursuing a nuclear weapon but it was not priority. Had Germany been first across that finish line along with their advanced ballistic missile program, it would've been a U.S. delegation signing surrender papers on a battleship in Chesapeake Bay, no invasion needed.

This would have been far more likely over an actual invasion. Germany had a few issues here. They lost several scientist who could have performed the work, such as Enrico Fermi to the US prior to the war. The Germans were also trying to build a reactor with heavy water as a neutron moderator. Where as the Manhatten project was mostly using graphite as a neutron moderator. From my limited understanding it is somewhat easier, though more dangerous to use graphite. I'm no physicist so I could easily be wrong about that. I do know Russia is the only nation that built commercial reactors with graphite, and common uranium (U-238), Chernobyl was one. The rest of the world used commercial reactors with U-238, and heavy water; or enriched uranium (U-235), and light water.

This is a good link about commercial reactors for those of us who aren't physics majors: http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/nuclear-fuel-cycle/power-reactors/nuclear-power-reactors/
 
Hitler had plans to invade the United States using rocket-pack-wearing super soldiers. There was a documentary about it called The Rocketeer by Disney Pictures.

Actually he curled in his bunker while the German youth were protecting Berlin.Instead of fighting, he took hisown cowardly life with close assocoates. Some Furereh!
 
Hitler was a skilled politician, orator and terrible warlord.

He was maybe suicidal desire maniac who wanted to cause as much destruction as possible.
 
How long of a rant do you want? This might be quite long. Initially he didn't want the non-aggression pact with the Soviets, he wanted an alliance with the UK. He considered the UK descended from Aryan stock, and felt they would view communism as a greater threat to Europe than Fascism. That obviously didn't happen, hence the treaty with the Soviets to buy him time in the East.

He figured once Poland, and France fell that the UK would than ask for peace terms, again didn't happen. Once realizing the Luftwaffe wasn't causing the UK to drop out, and an invasion wasn't possible he turned to the invasion of the USSR. He made three bad assumptions here.

1. Believing the UK didn't have the resources with the uboat blockade to mount a successful landing in mainland Europe. He was partially correct, he didn't count on the USA getting involved, and supplying the needed resources.

2. He had Mussolini, and Italy as a partner (thankfully for Europe though:)). Italy already occupied Albania, a small part of Southern France, Libya, Italian East Africa (basically Somalia and a bit of others), and Abyssinia (Ethiopia). Basically Mussolini wanted a bigger share of the pie, and some of the so called glory. He started attacks into Egypt-Sudan from Libya and IEA, he eventually lost IEA, and Abyssinia to the British, Australians, New Zealanders, and British India. His forces from Libya were repelled and driven back deep into Libya. He invaded Greece from Albania, and stalled out, than losing ground there as well. It was now 1941, and Mussolini asked for help, Hitler started forming the Africa Korps in January, and deployed them in February. He also diverted a large army to the Balkins to take Yugoslavia, then Greece. In doing this he delayed Operation Barbarossa (the invasion of the USSR) from early Spring 1941 till late June 1941. This gave the army less time to accomplish their goals before the Russian Winter started.

3. He planned on defeating the USSR the way he beat France. Break through the front lines with several spearheads then with several pincer movements cut off and capture the bulk of the Red Army. Than capture Moscow and force terms on the Soviets, to surrender everything West of Moscow to the Reich, and let the Soviets have to the east to establish a puppet state like Vichy France. After he consolidated, and depopulated his conquests in Eastern Europe, and the Caucasus' he probably would have finished off the Soviets, and forced terms on the British. The first part worked he captured a great deal of equipment, and over a million Soviet POWs. Army group South got bogged down in the Caucasus region, Army Group North stopped at Leningrad and laid siege for three years, Army Group Center got to within thirty miles of Moscow befor being diverted South to help take the Caucasus oil fields. Then Winter hit, momentum was lost and the Eastern Front became the most brutal war in human history for the next three years.

I haven't read up on this since the nineties, so more recent historians may have uncovered more information. From what I read then, after taking Moscow, he wanted the British to sign a peace treaty where they keep the islands, and the colonial empire, without Eygpt. Germany would have Europe, part of West Asia, and North Africa. That's where Hitler probably would have stopped as they didnt have the manpower or resources to go further. His successors may have tried to go beyond that. He never intended for a war with the USA in fact that didn't happen until Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, the USA declared war on Japan, then Germany, and Italy declared war on the United States as part of their treaty with Japan. The USA then declared war on Germany and Italy.

As for one poster suggesting Japan would have invaded the Western US, never would have happened, not in the forties, probably not even the fifties, if ever. For proof look up what historians have uncovered about the proposed invasion of Australia. Prior to the Battle of the Coral Sea the IJN (Imperial Japanese Navy) proposed an invasion of just North Australia. The IJA (Imperial Japanese Army) opposed this as unfeasible, as nearly three quarters of the army was already deployed in Korea, Manchukuo, French Indo China, and Burma. If the IJA knew they didn't have the troops needed for the much smaller, much closer to supply lines, and much less populated area of North Australia, than they damn well knew they couldn't touch the West Coast of the US with an invasion army. The part of Alaska they did take were the far Western Aleutian islands. Damn near the center of the Northern Pacific, per Google, that's 2,700 miles West of California.

As I said I read most of this in the nineties, so new discoveries may have been made, plus I may have forgotten a few things. I could cite sources, but I'm tired and I doubt few people will read this book anyway.

Sorry for the long post.


This is as accurate as you're going to get in a brief synopsis. Hitler wanted a few things...

1-Liebensraum (or in German, "room to live"), a German-dominated homeland
2-Revenge for the humiliation suffered by Germany after WW1
3-Purification of aryans...i.e. get rid of Jews, Roma and other undesirables (Hitler read a lot of Nietzsche but he corrupted it)

Once Germany either occupied or controlled Europe/North Africa (historically, the Roman Empire +), and the Middle East (oil), he'd have his first and second goals down. Then he'd have commenced to finishing off #3.
 
The German military high command should of never supported Hitler after making this deal too rid the SA leadership and absorb Hitler's secret army into the German military because of homophobic fears in the military about the SA high command: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives

The military heads where the last line to stop Hitler insane plans as he came to power, and stupid PM Hindenburg making him president.

And for the atrocities, blame the SS and not the regular German military.
 
As others have said, world domination. This was evidenced by his highly illogical and rushed ways of carrying things out; attacking Russia, using way too many resources helping the Italians, slaughtering millions of people, etc. Had he been more patient and logical, he could have gotten a lot closer to his dream than he actually did. Back in those days, Germany would have crushed anybody in a one-on-one war.

One on one vs Western Europe. But never vs Russia or USA.

Despite the western front and helping Italy, the Russian still ended up facing 3/4 of the German forces. And out numbered them 5:1.

Russia was caught off guard at the beginning of Operation Barbarossa because of bad leadership from Satlin's command purges. And Hitler made a mistake pulling his Pazners units to the south when the German military was 20-15 miles outside of Moscow, Hitler sent those units south to help the south army secure the oil fields in the Caucasus. After they rejoin the move on Moscow, we all know the story. Bogged down by a bad winter and the Russians regrouped. I'm saying, Stalin got lucky that Hitler did not move on Moscow in the late summer and early fall of 1941.
 
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