Trans Pacific Partnership

[xfire]

Anyone know anything about this?

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/11/14/tpp_exposed_wikileaks_publishes_secret_trade

WikiLeaks has published the secret text to part of the biggest U.S. trade deal in history, the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). For the past several years, the United States and 12 Pacific Rim nations have been negotiating behind closed doors on the sweeping agreement. A 95-page draft of a TPP chapter released by WikiLeaks on Wednesday details agreements relating to patents, copyright, trademarks and industrial design — showing their wide-reaching implications for internet services, civil liberties, publishing rights,and medicine accessibility. Critics say the deal could rewrite U.S. laws on intellectual property rights, product safety and environmental regulations, while backers say it will help create jobs and boost the economy. President Obama and U.S. trade representative Michael Froman reportedly wish to finalize the TPP by the end of the year and are pushing Congress to expedite legislation that grants the president something called "fast-track authority." However, this week some 151 House Democrats and 23 Republicans wrote letters to the administration saying they are unwilling to give the president free reign to "diplomatically legislate." We host a debate on the TPP between Bill Watson, a trade policy analyst at the Cato Institute, and Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen’s Global Trade Watch.

 

[xfire]

Yup, FOX NEWS is on it too.

Well, I can tell you, I don't like it, not one bit. There better be some 'splaining and justifications coming from the administration for this secret pile of shit.

 

[Supafly]

In Europe, especially in Germany, we are very aware of the dangers we bring over us if our governments sign these papers. The US standards for food are a disaster, gen-manipulated and sodden with chemicals, and the author of this article points out another danger:

US Companies can sue if they feel they have it worse in Europe, because of our social standards. Union and workers rights, all that would be up to get kicked out the door, no actaul court involved

...

These so-called "partnerships" are in fact vehicles by which US corporations make themselves immune to the sovereign laws of foreign countries in which they do business. A sovereign country that attempts to enforce its laws against an American corporation can be sued by the corporation for "restraint of trade." For example, if Monsanto wants to sell GMO seeds in France or US corporations wish to sell genetically-modified foods in France, and France enforces its laws against GMOs, the Transatlantic Trade Partnership allows France to be sued in jurisdictions outside the courts of France for "restraint of trade." In other words, preventing the entry into France of a prohibited product constitutes restraint of trade.

...

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Th..._Corporate_Corporations_Power-141012-777.html

 

[Johan]

I totally agree with what supadupafly said and the quote he made.

In France too, many people are outraged of this so-called "partnership", concerned over american corporations abele to selle their products in Europe even if the don't fit Europe's standats and lesgislations. California would be able to ban french foie gras but France wouldn't be able to ban US genetically modified Food ?! :dunno:

And many people are also outraged that the negotiations are held behind closed doors, that the people are left unaware of what is discussed.

 

[Johan]

 

[Supafly]

...
California would be able to ban french foie gras but France wouldn't be able to ban US genetically modified Food ?! :dunno:

And many people are also outraged that the negotiations are held behind closed doors, that the people are left unaware of what is discussed.

Sadly, I can't rep you for this. ANOTHER big reason to be against this. No good things stem from these secret talks, looking back

 

[BlkHawk]

Also can't rep Johan. If any one wants to stay up to date on this, and related copyright law, subscribe to the RSS on a news site that has been covering this for three years. I can't link it here, I cannot even spell the name here, and will probably be banned if I try to get around the censor.. There is nothing illegal, no links to copyrighted material, and it is just a news site that covers copyright law, and promotes changing it.

A Google search for: Freak copyright news will bring the site up as the first result.

 

[tvstrip]

In Europe, especially in Germany, we are very aware of the dangers we bring over us if our governments sign these papers. The US standards for food are a disaster, gen-manipulated and sodden with chemicals, and the author of this article points out another danger:
US Companies can sue if they feel they have it worse in Europe, because of our social standards. Union and workers rights, all that would be up to get kicked out the door, no actaul court involved
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Th..._Corporate_Corporations_Power-141012-777.html

Wait, so are we to understand that the TPP will also allow US companies to override domestic laws?
What if US companies want full access to sell gum to Singapore?
Or in the context of Freeones, what happens if US Porn Studios want to sell uncensored porn in Japan? Talk about a paradigm shift!

 

[bobjustbob]

Come on now. We just want to make your lives a little easier. Do it for the children.

 

[BlkHawk]

Think SOPA part 2. One of the clauses in the discussion would require ISP's to monitor what their customers download, and notify the customer of any copyright violations. It is even broader than that anyone providing Internet access would fall under this with the wording currently in use. Think coffee shop with free wifi, first the ISP would notify the coffee shop than the shop would have to notify the customer.

The really annoying thing is the discussions on this have been going on for three years, and no press allowed, all done behind closed doors. All information we have has been from whistleblowers. This agreement would be between US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Japan. One other proposal would extend copyright from life of the artist plus 70 years, to life of the artist plus 100 years.

Another is making it a criminal offense to download (therefore view) copyrighted material on an individual level. Currently it is a civil offense, and usually has to involve uploading copyrighted material. Considering how broad copyright is that is anyone who has been to YouTube.

Canada has brought one saving grace into the argument that would allow individual nations to use their laws in regard to breaking DRM, and encryption. In the US if you convert a DVD you purchased to a digital file that plays on your phone, you are actually breaking the law. You circumvented CSS encryption to do that.

We have people who do not understand technology trying to write laws to prevent copywrite abuse, but since they don't understand technology I don't think they are even aware of how broad this possible new agreement is. They have invited several members of the MPAA as advisors, but no one from any of the technology companies.

 

[jonno2004]

Scary one this, thanks for posting!

 

[tvstrip]

Canada has brought one saving grace into the argument that would allow individual nations to use their laws in regard to breaking DRM, and encryption. In the US if you convert a DVD you purchased to a digital file that plays on your phone, you are actually breaking the law. You circumvented CSS encryption to do that.

I'm very curious as to what you're referring to, and how much you know about the subject. C-32?

 

[BlkHawk]

I'm very curious as to what you're referring to, and how much you know about the subject. C-32?

I freely confess to not knowing a lot about Canadian copyright law. I assume you are referring to Bill C-32 about digital locks that was voted down in 2010, and not Bill C-32 Victims Bill of Rights that was read this year http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=6510370&Language=E&Mode=1

The copyright C-32 after being voted down, got revived as C-11 and passed in 2012, yes it is harsh, and prevents DRM/Digital Lock circumvention. However, for whatever reason Canada's delegation to the TPP agreement is proposing that a nations local laws should be used in this regard instead of those in the agreement;

Google Freak Copyright News (first link)
Compared to the previous draft that leaked last year there are also some positive developments to report.

For example, Canada put forward a proposal that permits countries to allow exceptions to technological protection measures. This would make it possible to classify DRM-circumvention as fair use, for example. A refreshing proposal, but one that’s unlikely to be approved by the U.S.

I cannot link to the article quoted, as the URL is filtered on this board, use the Google search. (Again nothing illegal on that site just news articles related to copyright law.)

As further illustrated here Canada is actually leading in the number of objections to US demands:
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2014/10/...g-opponent-u-s-intellectual-property-demands/

Michael Geist actually has a lot of good information on this subject, I recommend following his blog as he knows far more about it (especially Canadian law) than I do.

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/

 

[Jagger69]

A reminder for concerned conservatives and liberals alike to band to together and oppose President Obama's sell-out to the big multinational corporations with his desire to "fast-track" this secretive and vile proposed agreement. Just say "NO" to the TPP!!!

 

[xfire]

Thanks for the reminder, Jag, it's good to remember the shadow government is working non-stop to fuck us all, Republicans and Democrats all the same.

 

[Supafly]

 

[Johan]

After Getting Called Out, Elizabeth Warren Accuses Obama Of Deliberately Hiding Trade Details


Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) called on President Barack Obama to make details of the trade pact he is negotiating public a day after Obama said that Warren and other critics were wrong on the facts of the deal.

The Obama administration has briefed members of Congress on the deal, called the Trans-Pacific Partnership, but has blocked members from publicly discussing specifics. Last month, an Obama administration official told The Huffington Post that the briefings on the deal were classified because they were sensitive and ongoing.

But on Wednesday, Warren accused the administration of deliberately hiding unpopular details from the public.

"The government doesn’t want you to read this massive new trade agreement. It’s top secret," Warren said in a statement on her website. "Why? Here’s the real answer people have given me: 'We can’t make this deal public because if the American people saw what was in it, they would be opposed to it.'"

"If the American people would be opposed to a trade agreement if they saw it, then that agreement should not become the law of the United States," Warren continued.

Warren also said that there were provisions in the deal that would allow companies to ship jobs overseas and weaken environmental or labor rules. The Massachusetts senator also said that Congress should have the ability to amend the deal to get rid of objectionable provisions -- something that Obama does not want it to do.

During an appearance on "The Rachel Maddow Show" Wednesday evening, Warren said that she worried that the authority Obama sought to bypass Congress on the deal could be used by future presidents after Obama left office. Warren added that while ordinary citizens had been blocked from seeing the trade deal, businesses that could be affected by it were privy to details.

During a town hall on Tuesday, Obama disputed that the deal was secret, noting that his administration had held 1,700 briefings on it and that it had "unprecedented" labor and environmental standards. The deal, Obama said, is "the most progressive framework for trade we have ever had."

"When you hear folks make a lot of suggestions about how bad this trade deal is, when you dig into the facts, they are wrong," Obama said. "I would not be putting this forward if I was not absolutely certain that this was gonna be good for American workers," Obama said, noting that virtually everything he had done since coming into office had been to help the middle class.

http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?740420-Trans-Pacific-Partnership

I think we can all agree on the fact that, if we had nothing to fear about the TPP, it wouldn't be so secret...

 

[Supafly]

Senator Warren cites 'rigged' process in concerns on trade deal
Senator Elizabeth Warren explains to Rachel Maddow why she is reluctant to give fast track power to President Obama on a new trade deal, citing concerns that the crafting of the deal is 'rigged,' and insisting that the deal be made public first. Duration: 7:59

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/...-trade-deal-432572483526?cid=eml_mra_20150423

 

[Straight Shooter]

Sorry but I'm breaking from my fellow liberals with my support of the TPP. The TPP is not NAFTA. The TPP has the strongest labor and human rights protections we've ever seen in a trade agreement. This deal will put us in a better position in relation to China because it will allow us to set the rules in regard to global trade. I don't know about you guys but I certainly don't want China making the rules when it comes to global trade. The opponents of the TPP, namely Warren, are doing the same thing the GOP are doing with the Iran Deal in that they're engaging in fear mongering and knocking a deal that isn't even written and complete yet.

 

[Jagger69]

Sorry but I'm breaking from my fellow liberals with my support of the TPP. The TPP is not NAFTA. The TPP has the strongest labor and human rights protections we've ever seen in a trade agreement. This deal will put us in a better position in relation to China because it will allow us to set the rules in regard to global trade. I don't know about you guys but I certainly don't want China making the rules when it comes to global trade. The opponents of the TPP, namely Warren, are doing the same thing the GOP are doing with the Iran Deal in that they're engaging in fear mongering and knocking a deal that isn't even written and complete yet.

This is way different than the Iran negotiations because opposition to the TPP is not necessarily partisan-based and the opposition is not sending proactive letters to foreign nations in a preemptive effort to undermine the POTUS nor are we suggesting war as an alternative. All we are saying is hold your goddamned horses and quit pissing on my back and telling me that it's raining. Why not release the details if this is such a slam-dunk good deal for the average joe? Where is it written that "we" will set the rules? It's an international agreement. All we are going to do is sign on to whatever is agreed to.....we're not "setting" anything. Allegedly (according to the wikileaks report), the labor and environmental guidelines are non-binding, Iceman. Workers will continue to be exploited and air and water pollution will continue unabated. Intellectual property rights will be beefed up to raise the cost of health care and allow foreign corporations to sue as if they had sovereign status in order to supersede American laws. Additionally, it could place limitations on internet access. More American jobs will be lost in a race to make cheaper and cheaper flat-screen TVs.

I'm not fundamentally opposed to international trade agreements by any stretch. I am not, however, supporting a secretive deal that causes diametrically opposed political oddities like Barack Obama and Ted Cruz to jump into bed together. If it's such a good deal for the American worker, let's see the fuckin' thing in its entirety and knock off this secret "fast track" horseshit designed to hoodwink an unsuspecting American public.