Sen. Arlen Specter holds town hall meeting about health care reform - Lebanon, Pennsy

[Friday on my mind]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka4ZY0dDVXk
9:19

There are more related links at youtube.

Caught some of this on C-Span last night.The crowd must have been one of the most moronic groups of people I have ever seen.I did not hear one question which was a rational coherent one, they all but one (one nurse got up and said she supported reforms) were just some right wing rant with almost never any basis in fact as to what is being proposed.Specter takes an hour and a half of this,the things you have to do/put up with to try to get elected.:eek:

This kind of thing is going on in lots of places right now.The conservatives and health care status quo lobby's have done heck of a job in whipping up the lunatics.


Here is a CNN story on the event.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/11/specter.town.hall/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

 

[CH3NO2]

Re: Sen. Arlen Specter holds town hall meeting about health care reform - Lebanon, Pe

Here we go again....

 

[Jagger69]

Re: Sen. Arlen Specter holds town hall meeting about health care reform - Lebanon, Pe

^
Yes....this subject has been beaten to death here but....

Read Section 1233 of H.R. 3200 here:

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

It is a tedious read (fucking lawyers!) but I see nothing in the bill that would provide for "death panels" or any such nonsense. It is a fabrication of the highest degree designed to frighten those who are so obviously and so easily influenced by such tactics.

The comments by some at the meeting were so off-the-wall that it made me wonder to what issue they were actually referring. One gentleman referred to the "erosion of our rights" and the proposed closure of Guantanamo under the Obama administration and another lady called upon Senator Specter to "protect the constitution" (like the part that refers to "promote the general welfare" maybe? :dunno. How any of this is relevant to the proposed health-care bill is beyond me. It's pretty obvious that many in attendance were simply anti-Obama.

I think there is a lot of reactionary fear and resulting anger from the degree of change that some perceive as occurring way too fast and without enough thought about possible ramifications. We must all remember that this is a bill that may be (and likely is) a long way from being a finalized version that might go up for a vote.

Be against the bill by all means if that is your predisposition. Just tell the truth. To infer that there will be "death panels" who will decide whether you may live or die is preposterous. I still want to hear what these detractors suggest that we do about the 50 million Americans without any health care at all and many millions more who are ****** to pay outrageous premiums for extremely limited coverage if some sort of health care legislation is not enacted.

What's the plan, Stan? These "town-hall" meetings are a joke.

 

[Friday on my mind]

Re: Sen. Arlen Specter holds town hall meeting about health care reform - Lebanon, Pe

^

What's the plan, Stan? These "town-hall" meetings are a joke.

Yeah the rhetoric is astounding that you hear at the town halls.There can be debate and congressman/women have duty to hear out the people.But the people have some duty in all this as well,like don't just make stuff up and twist things to fit your agenda and treat people the way you would want to be treated.All that was in short supply from this group.

Here is a link to the full 1 hour 18 minute event with Specter.He's asked about the Quaran,the constitution etc.The people ask the most inane questions asking Specter to promise to not support all kinds of sillyness that no politician looking to get re-elected would ever support in the 1st place.One guy says "I hope somebody is keeping track of all these promises he (Specter) is making.Specters response is " it's all on tape ".Yeah it's all on tape how little brains you and your neighbors have.:tongue:



http://www.cspan.org/Watch/Media/20...+Arlen+Specter+DPA+Health+Care+Town+Hall.aspx

 

[Hot Mega]

Re: Sen. Arlen Specter holds town hall meeting about health care reform - Lebanon, Pe

Demos have only themselves to blame. I swear these guys couldn't sell iced water in hell.

The case to be made for health care reform is not necessarily about what is being offered to the health care recipient but the fact that the current institution is bankrupting the country.

Where in the world is that case being made???

And why aren't the detractors hit squarely between the eyes with their phony outrage over debt??? They don't really give a **** about debt or else they would have been marching on D.C. over the $12-16 billion PER MONTH we were spending in Iraq concocting a "democracy".

 

[Jagger69]

Re: Sen. Arlen Specter holds town hall meeting about health care reform - Lebanon, Pe

And why aren't the detractors hit squarely between the eyes with their phony outrage over debt??? They don't really give a **** about debt or else they would have been marching on D.C. over the $12-16 billion PER MONTH we were spending in Iraq concocting a "democracy".

Well stated and right on the mark. I guess they have no problem parting with a buck as long as the money is being spent to **** people. Turn the situation around and ask them to spend money saving lives by providing health care to every American and suddenly it's a waste of money.

Our priorities are so fucked up in this country.

 

[maildude]

Re: Sen. Arlen Specter holds town hall meeting about health care reform - Lebanon, Pe

Medicare and Medicaid. Hmmmph.

 

[Red Spyder]

Re: Sen. Arlen Specter holds town hall meeting about health care reform - Lebanon, Pe

And why aren't the detractors hit squarely between the eyes with their phony outrage over debt??? They don't really give a **** about debt or else they would have been marching on D.C. over the $12-16 billion PER MONTH we were spending in Iraq concocting a "democracy".

Do you give a **** about debt? If so, why support even more of it?

I mean, with 1/10 of the stimulus, which has not been spent yet, every poor uninsured person could have been insured for at least a year.

 

[Hot Mega]

Re: Sen. Arlen Specter holds town hall meeting about health care reform - Lebanon, Pe

Do you give a **** about debt? If so, why support even more of it?

I mean, with 1/10 of the stimulus, which has not been spent yet, every poor uninsured person could have been insured for at least a year.

Think about what you're saying. The concept of debt doesn't change because it's a government....it's no different from responsible and irresponsible debt in your private life.

Debt is only a problem in two cases; if you have no ability to repay it and/or you operate at consistent deficits.

The other concept regarding debt is what are you going into debt for? If you don't have the $500k on hand to purchase a home but you believe purchasing a home is a worthwhile investment what's wrong with borrowing the money and paying it back over time?

That's different however from borrowing money for some unnecessary expense that will give you no appreciable return.

Here's the rub....a practical person would ask why are you having a problem with a person going into debt to buy a home but you had no problem with another person borrowing money for an expensive, unnecessary vacation? That is analogous difference in the debate over debt to solve a health care crisis that is bankrupting our country versus an unnecessarily costly, unnecessary invasion of Iraq.

:hatsoff:

 

[Member2019]

Okay, let's get one thing straight ...

The conservatives and health care status quo lobby's

I have yet to hear a single "right winger" or Republican say the current system is working correctly.
Most of them say it's totally and extremely fucked up.
Many example issues include ...
- You shouldn't be penalized for not getting it from your employer
- Being at the mercy of your employer for any coverage is extortion
- Pre-existing conditions and other issues are only because you have to change insurances when you change employers
- The government ****** companies to cover non-critical items (e.g., fertility), increasing costs unnecessarily -- I highly recommend people read what Obama ****** companies to do in IL!
- Too many people can afford coverage but don't and aren't ****** to
- Too many employers don't provide proper basic coverage, etc...

I think the common theme from both Democrats and Republicans is that the employer-provided programs are not working! From that is actually where the Democrats and Republican differ.

The Republicans vary from having options outside your employer without penalty to downright outlawing your employer from providing you with any.

The Democrats vary from having some social options and state administered programs to complete, single provider, "everyone gets basic" at the federal.

On the Republican side, McCain's plan was to give everyone an average of $5K/year (depend on dependents) to get their own plan -- increasing or pocketing the difference as you saw fit. In MA, Mitt Romey set up a system that if you make enough money (prorated from 1.5 to 3x the poverty level), yet you don't select a "minimal level of coverage" as defined by the state, the state will penalize you. That was to address people who can afford coverage but don't opt for it, or opt for a lower plan from their employer when their employer offers a better plan (and they are one of the higher paid employees).

Everyone agrees the current system is not free market. The question is if we should "open it back up" and try free market or if we should shut it entirely down altogether, or somewhere in-between.

In the UK, they have a 2-level system. Everyone gets basic and then people who can afford it "pay up" for better coverage, quicker access, etc... Other nations have an one-size fits all, and there's waiting lines and things not covered. Some strike a balance, but you still have to come to nations like the US to get leading procedures.

I also want to remind people that one of the architects of HMOs and the current penalties on those who are self employed or seek coverage outside of their employer is Ted Kennedy. So, frankly, I consider anything from him to be a purposeful clusterfuck in the private sector designed to push socialized healthcare. That and his preventing wind farms in MA really pisses me off -- let alone his excuses in return on both matters (absolutely pathetic).

 

[Friday on my mind]

Re: Okay, let's get one thing straight ...

I have yet to hear a single "right winger" or Republican say the current system is working correctly.
Most of them say it's totally and extremely fucked up.
Many example issues include ...
- You shouldn't be penalized for not getting it from your employer
- Being at the mercy of your employer for any coverage is extortion
- Pre-existing conditions and other issues are only because you have to change insurances when you change employers
- The government ****** companies to cover non-critical items (e.g., fertility), increasing costs unnecessarily -- I highly recommend people read what Obama ****** companies to do in IL!
- Too many people can afford coverage but don't and aren't ****** to
- Too many employers don't provide proper basic coverage, etc...

I think the common theme from both Democrats and Republicans is that the employer-provided programs are not working! From that is actually where the Democrats and Republican differ.

The Republicans vary from having options outside your employer without penalty to downright outlawing your employer from providing you with any.

The Democrats vary from having some social options and state administered programs to complete, single provider, "everyone gets basic" at the federal.

On the Republican side, McCain's plan was to give everyone an average of $5K/year (depend on dependents) to get their own plan -- increasing or pocketing the difference as you saw fit. In MA, Mitt Romey set up a system that if you make enough money (prorated from 1.5 to 3x the poverty level), yet you don't select a "minimal level of coverage" as defined by the state, the state will penalize you. That was to address people who can afford coverage but don't opt for it, or opt for a lower plan from their employer when their employer offers a better plan (and they are one of the higher paid employees).

Everyone agrees the current system is not free market. The question is if we should "open it back up" and try free market or if we should shut it entirely down altogether, or somewhere in-between.

In the UK, they have a 2-level system. Everyone gets basic and then people who can afford it "pay up" for better coverage, quicker access, etc... Other nations have an one-size fits all, and there's waiting lines and things not covered. Some strike a balance, but you still have to come to nations like the US to get leading procedures.

I also want to remind people that one of the architects of HMOs and the current penalties on those who are self employed or seek coverage outside of their employer is Ted Kennedy. So, frankly, I consider anything from him to be a purposeful clusterfuck in the private sector designed to push socialized healthcare. That and his preventing wind farms in MA really pisses me off -- let alone his excuses in return on both matters (absolutely pathetic).

Watch any of the town halls or what the dems are actually saying and most of them (haven't heard one not say this) say they think private insurance from employers that most people have now is what they will stay with and that what they just want is a public option for people who need it and to offer some competition to help control costs.

That may be not what I think should be done exactly but thats what they are talking about.Private insurance is going to be around it seems and no single payer is in sight.

And I do think overall republicans have offered nothing tangible at all as far as reform goes.The plan from the dems may fall short and need revision later IMO but at leasts it's something?

I watched a couple town halls where specter and a senator from MD faced pretty hostile crowds.The crowds over and over again said leave my/our health care alone,do nothing.Both senators tried to say their plan was if your happy with what ya got keep it.

You would hope that all parties would see something has to be done ,we are gonna go broke this way.

Prof like you are saying in the thread on the 230 mpg car people will just ignore reality and keep heading straight for the brick wall.

And I think we know how adept such people in industries can be in blocking anything they see as possibly hurting their bottom lines.Watch the vid with Specter ,it's amazing what people have come to believe.Somebody helped get them that way.