http://www.twincities.com/columnists/ci_17367244?source=rss&nclick_check=1
And people bitch about cutting education funding; clearly lack of funding is not the problem.
More money can't fix schools, but interested parents can
- Thread starter Bloodshot Scott
- Start date
http://www.twincities.com/columnists/ci_17367244?source=rss&nclick_check=1
And people bitch about cutting education funding; clearly lack of funding is not the problem.
Facetious
Moderated
We could also dismantle the U.S. Dept. of Edukation bureaucracy... what a complete piece of shit that turned out to be.. . . thank you, jimmy carter. It's no wonder why the rest of the world is leaving us in the dust, these †freakin democrats† don't believe that American kids are worthy of being numero uno in any discipline! In fact, they don't even want kids to be loyal to or much less become a legal citizen of this country. My, the times have changed, Ima tellin you.
Bad . . . bad amerika! :nono: Shame on this nation!
God damn it (amerika) in fact! :cussing:
† (not all democrats mind you, just the freakin commy-collectivist-welfare state-democrats) ...
Bad . . . bad amerika! :nono: Shame on this nation!
God damn it (amerika) in fact! :cussing:
† (not all democrats mind you, just the freakin commy-collectivist-welfare state-democrats
) ...teachers unions are destroying education. Right now private and homeschools are the only hope for the next generation. I predict in the next 10-20 years the best and brightest will never have set foot in a government school. Jimmy Carter is an idiot but I would be hard pressed to figure out who the bigger idiot is between him and Barack Hussein Obama.
L3ggy
Special Operations FOX-HOUND
We could also dismantle the U.S. Dept. of Edukation bureaucracy... what a complete piece of shit that turned out to be.. . . thank you, jimmy carter. It's no wonder why the rest of the world is leaving us in the dust, these ?freakin democrats? don't believe that American kids are worthy of being numero uno in any discipline! In fact, they don't even want kids to be loyal to or much less become a legal citizen of this country. My, the times have changed, Ima tellin you.
Bad . . . bad amerika! :nono: Shame on this nation!
God damn it (amerika) in fact! :cussing:
? (not all democrats mind you, just the freakin commy-collectivist-welfare state-democrats
Don't you mean Amerikan kids?
Rey C.
Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
I agree that more money (alone) can't fix the secondary public education disaster in the U.S. And I agree that parents are (or should be) the primary soldiers in that fight. But when parents become fully involved, if the schools aren't funded to a level that they can provide up to date books in good condition and facilities that are clean and not over burdened, their efforts will be wasted.
There are MANY issues, not just one. And there are no magic bullets. Every school district has its own set of problems, and varied solutions to those problems. In L.A., maybe it's huge numbers of illegal alien children or kids from homes that are Spanish speaking only. In D.C., maybe it's kids from violent neighborhoods with high unemployment. In West Virginia or Mississippi, maybe it's school districts with very low tax receipts, and they can't afford up to date books or high enough teacher salaries to attract the best and brightest.
But when I saw a report last night about a school district that was paying the average teacher $71K a year, yet student test scores were some of the lowest in that state (I don't recall the state... somewhere up north though), that does stick in a lot of people's craw.
Personally, I liked Michelle Ree (former school chancellor in Washington, D.C.). I liked the approach that she was taking. But even she couldn't turn a bad, uninterested parent into a good, interested parent.
P.S. The attitudes of Americans (in general) toward education is also part of the problem, IMO. Just look at some of the responses on this board when the topic of a teacher sleeping with her (underage, usually male) students comes up. Maybe a porn board, full of guys who are probably 18-25, isn't a good indicator. But I always find it troubling and rather sad when people pop up and say, "Man, them kids shoulda just kept quiet, man! She had big titties. I wouldn't a said nuthin'! That kid was a faggot pussy for blabbin', man!"
Maybe they don't have kids now. But at some point, at least some of these people will have kids. And I'm guessing that their current (child-like) attitudes toward what school SHOULD be about will affect their parenting styles and attitudes in the future. In other words, GIGO (garbage in, garbage out).
There are MANY issues, not just one. And there are no magic bullets. Every school district has its own set of problems, and varied solutions to those problems. In L.A., maybe it's huge numbers of illegal alien children or kids from homes that are Spanish speaking only. In D.C., maybe it's kids from violent neighborhoods with high unemployment. In West Virginia or Mississippi, maybe it's school districts with very low tax receipts, and they can't afford up to date books or high enough teacher salaries to attract the best and brightest.
But when I saw a report last night about a school district that was paying the average teacher $71K a year, yet student test scores were some of the lowest in that state (I don't recall the state... somewhere up north though), that does stick in a lot of people's craw.
Personally, I liked Michelle Ree (former school chancellor in Washington, D.C.). I liked the approach that she was taking. But even she couldn't turn a bad, uninterested parent into a good, interested parent.
P.S. The attitudes of Americans (in general) toward education is also part of the problem, IMO. Just look at some of the responses on this board when the topic of a teacher sleeping with her (underage, usually male) students comes up. Maybe a porn board, full of guys who are probably 18-25, isn't a good indicator. But I always find it troubling and rather sad when people pop up and say, "Man, them kids shoulda just kept quiet, man! She had big titties. I wouldn't a said nuthin'! That kid was a faggot pussy for blabbin', man!"
Maybe they don't have kids now. But at some point, at least some of these people will have kids. And I'm guessing that their current (child-like) attitudes toward what school SHOULD be about will affect their parenting styles and attitudes in the future. In other words, GIGO (garbage in, garbage out).
CollierAlda
Banned
Nice effort I like to read about school money policy Thanks! for your latest news.woman you want helping you to fulfill your needs and make you come, to keep you coming back for more. And believe me she will!
Parents are where it starts, individuals wanting to learn is where the rubber meets the road. A kid who wants to read and gain knowledge will succeed in any situation regardless of how much money per capita his/her school gets.
But it aint too cool these days to be a seeker of knowledge. If pop culture is a sign, it's much cooler to be an idiot who can barely speak.:2 cents:
But it aint too cool these days to be a seeker of knowledge. If pop culture is a sign, it's much cooler to be an idiot who can barely speak.:2 cents:
Rey C.
Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Excellent post! :clap:
Some people on here seem to think that I make fun of Sarah P@lin (and those of her ilk) because of her politics. In truth, I don't believe that she has a true understanding of her political beliefs. Like a well trained parrot, she has simply learned a few words and she just speaks... and the Pavlovian dogs who support her begin barking. I actually make fun of her because I see her as representative of what's wrong with America. If she truly understood her own beliefs, she wouldn't claim to be a "physical conservative" and accuse others of being "soshilists", while she has championed extreme socialist policies herself (a massive windfall profits tax which was then distributed to "the people"). Even if a person agreed with every single belief that I have, I would NEVER celebrate a person who is seemingly proud of their own ignorance and puts themselves up as a poster child for stupidity.
I dislike Palin for the same reason that I so strongly dislike those Jersey Shore kids: they represent ignorance and stupidity to me. But being stupid and ignorant seems to have caught on as a fashion trend in modern day America.
A society that celebrates "dumbassity". Teachers who are worried more about getting tenure than about the kids. Some others (only a few, I hope) who see their classrooms as a place to troll for easily controllable sex partners. Parents who are disconnected from their kids, and care more about keeping up with the Joneses. Kids who are plugged into video games and reality TV shows. Politicians and a public that still don't realize that just having a high school diploma means very little these days. IMO, we're just all kinds of fucked up in this country.
meesterperfect
Hiliary 2020
i've been saying for years that you can toss all the money you want at education and it won't change it much.
It is the parents who have the ability to change it by being responsible parents.
Unfortunately, with the government giving people a free ride for reproducing as much as they can responsible parents are becoming an endangered species in the USA.
And all we can do is sit back and watch it happen.
It is the parents who have the ability to change it by being responsible parents.
Unfortunately, with the government giving people a free ride for reproducing as much as they can responsible parents are becoming an endangered species in the USA.
And all we can do is sit back and watch it happen.
Rey C.
Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
It's interesting that you seem to think that teachers' unions are the root cause of the problem. Because even though I see the AFT and the NEA as less that productive or helpful MUCH of the time, I believe yours is an opinion similar to those who believe that ALL of GM's and Chrysler's issues could be traced to the UAW and CAW. And yet, we have the shining example of Ford's success to counter that claim. Ford should have been the first to fail, if that was true. Ford had the same or worse contracts as GM and Chrysler, and it had an even heavier debt burden. What many don't take into account, or don't realize, is that the UAW doesn't represent the people who design automobiles or the people who design the manufacturing systems. It is those systems, in these days of automation, that determines whether the process yields a well made, relatively defect free, "pretty" car, or a hunk of junk that is uglier than sin. In the case of teachers' unions, I happen to live in a right-to-work state. So while unions exist, they have no where near the influence that they do in states that are not right-to-work. IMO, these are overly simplistic, knee-jerk responses to a much more complex issue.
My mother was a public school teacher for many years (from the 1940's to the 60's). She has no use for teachers' unions. But she also has no use for bratty children or disinterested parents. My ex-fiance was working on her masters in education and was to become a teacher. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but she bore something of a resemblance to Salma Hayek. So imagine being in a classroom where your teacher is a busty, young Latina who is a stunner. She didn't last a full semester as a student teacher in a local public school. Through one of my former professors, we were able to get her set up in a private school, where the DISCIPLINE was much stricter... and her appearance would be less of an issue. She did well there. But the difference was not whether the school was public or private, but that the school had parents who were VERY engaged (most of the time) and the kids didn't act like a bunch of untrained zoo animals. There is an old Italian term which describes a child who has not been raised properly: "un maleducato". And it's not a teacher's job to raise your kid or teach him manners!
The same parents who home school their kids could also get involved with a PTA/PTO organization. They could even run to be on the school board. But the bottomline is, if you've raised a holy nightmare of a child, a private school is not going to be able to correct your parenting mistakes. And home schooling such a child will simply produce a socially retarded version of what the public school system would produce.
As for who is the bigger idiot... I will nominate someone that you likely agreed with more than your nominees: George W. Bush. 'Twas your boy George who blessed us all with "No Child Left Behind". That unfunded federal mandate forced states to undertake measures which they previously had not done... or if they did, they did it willingly. The Spanish speaking kid, whose family has not yet learned to speak English... instead of obligating him to learn the language of the land, Bush's act forced states to hire Spanish speaking teachers and even teach Spanish only classes (with English as a second language). According to what I've read about a situation in Nashville, it is now a violation of that child's civil rights to keep him segregated from the general population for more than one year. Even if he struggles and slows everybody else down, within a year, he must be placed into the general student population. Who paid for that? Not Bush. Not the federal government. Suckers like me, at the local level, who may not even have kids, but do own property. I guess there were some good things about the act too. But there is no escaping the FACT that it was an unfunded federal mandate, that was dreamed up by some of the same scalawags who now claim to be the second coming of a Reagan Revolution. I was born at night, but it most certainly was not last night. Nice try, but sorry... my memory is not THAT short. :hatsoff:
So what they are saying, somewhat in a roundabout way, is that the money they keep increasingly putting into public education isn't as effective as children and their families being in a good socioeconomic situation to start with.
...Of course those same people that complain about money being put into education not being effective and calling for cuts or stops in increases in spending because of that will probably also be the first ones to bitch about taxing richer people more that can more easily afford it for the benefit of society and easing the burden on everybody else, or enacting laws to actually improve the overall quality of life of the everyday person, or just spending resources so those those child's parents will be in a situation where they will be more able to encourage them get a good education, watch over them, and get involved in their child's life instead of having both of them work all the time.
...Of course those same people that complain about money being put into education not being effective and calling for cuts or stops in increases in spending because of that will probably also be the first ones to bitch about taxing richer people more that can more easily afford it for the benefit of society and easing the burden on everybody else, or enacting laws to actually improve the overall quality of life of the everyday person, or just spending resources so those those child's parents will be in a situation where they will be more able to encourage them get a good education, watch over them, and get involved in their child's life instead of having both of them work all the time.
meesterperfect
Hiliary 2020
yeah thats one way too look at it. tax the rich and so called rich more to ease the burden on the middle class.
or another way is stop supporting the millions who have kids they can't afford or have them knowing that the gov will support them for the next 18 years.
that should ease the burden of the working people a bit also, doncha think?
or another way is stop supporting the millions who have kids they can't afford or have them knowing that the gov will support them for the next 18 years.
that should ease the burden of the working people a bit also, doncha think?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41702438/ns/us_news/
Shame is vastly under-rated.... interesting tactic.
Shame is vastly under-rated.... interesting tactic.
The problem you have is you have those kids who want to learn and those who don't. College isn't for everybody yet the way the educational system is set up it essentially pushes everybody towards it. What I'd do is set it up so it's like a lot of other countries where the ones who aren't academically gifted learn something useful like a trade that way when they're done high school they actually have something to look forward to other than working at McDonalds or Walmart for $8.00 an hour.
You split the classes, one for the college bound, one for the trades bound. College bound has a regular school day while the trades bound do four hours of school work and four hours of hands on learning whether that be in the classroom or on the job.
You split the classes, one for the college bound, one for the trades bound. College bound has a regular school day while the trades bound do four hours of school work and four hours of hands on learning whether that be in the classroom or on the job.
Didn't they have a system like the in place only a couple decades ago? I talked to my boy's uncle who is a mechanic and apparently they had auto shop back in his day. We only had metal and wood shop (and architecture) when I was there, but it sounds like they may have had a system to weed out and affectively direct kids in the right direction.
Nothing to be ashamed of, of course, as we all learn differently and some may be more fit for certain fields than others.
Agree 100%. That's the way the system USED to work, until all of these idiotic lefties ruined the system by insisting "everyone should go to college." A premise which is blatantly false. Of course the colleges ate it up due to increasing numbers (which meant more money for them) so they dumbed down the dgree requirements; as a result, we have a shortage in the skilled labor force which technical schools used to fill, and a lot of college grads who are functionally retarded.
Rey C.
Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
I agree with that, Doc. In fact, where I grew up, they had that. Kids could go to vocational school (starting around 9th grade, I think) for half a day. That was an outside facility that all the kids from the various schools in the county could attend. There were also classes in school called "industrial arts": automotive repair, wood and metal working, etc. And in 12th grade, there was a program called Distributive Education. Kids in that program could leave school around noon time and go to an outside job.
I didn't go that route, but I think the vocational school taught electronics, drafting and things like that. I assume those programs still exist, and if so, they've probably been updated to include CAD/CAM and CNC programming.
But those things do cost money. To properly outfit a CNC lab with just a couple of CNC mills and lathes could be anywhere from $150K to over $500K for 5 axis machines. Each student wouldn't need a lathe or mill, but each would need a computer and a license to AutoCAD and something like MasterCAM or FeatureCAM. I don't know what the educational discount is, but I'll assume about $2K for each student in the class. So if you have 50 stations, that's another $100K. So it takes money. But IMO, it's money well spent.
But I think you and I are on the same page here. I don't think college is the right path for everybody. There is nothing wrong with becoming an automotive tech and making $60K a year, a journeyman machinist making $70K a year or a radiology technician making whatever they make (in excess of $50K a year, I'm sure). I'd say that a kid who takes one of those paths will be on a more solid footing after school than the kid who gets a 4 year degree in Sociology. But the kid who doesn't do any of those things, and just has his high school diploma or GED... in this economy, that kid is fairly well fucked.
IMO, what's really scary about high school age kids these days is so many of them can barely read & write or perform even basic math calculations. So many of our kids can't even keep up with kids who sleep on dirt floors and live in 3rd world huts. That's really scary. And there's no excuse for it. Kids need to get away from the pointless video games and reality TV shows, and get tuned in to math and science classes. Parents need to become more involved in their kids' education. And both parents and schools need to work together to make sure that more of our kids are globally competitive. The federal government doesn't decide the ins & outs of what is or isn't taught at a micro level. That's decided by state and local governments, and locally elected school boards. So each parent has the opportunity to have a say... but it seems few take that opportunity.
I didn't go that route, but I think the vocational school taught electronics, drafting and things like that. I assume those programs still exist, and if so, they've probably been updated to include CAD/CAM and CNC programming.
But those things do cost money. To properly outfit a CNC lab with just a couple of CNC mills and lathes could be anywhere from $150K to over $500K for 5 axis machines. Each student wouldn't need a lathe or mill, but each would need a computer and a license to AutoCAD and something like MasterCAM or FeatureCAM. I don't know what the educational discount is, but I'll assume about $2K for each student in the class. So if you have 50 stations, that's another $100K. So it takes money. But IMO, it's money well spent.
But I think you and I are on the same page here. I don't think college is the right path for everybody. There is nothing wrong with becoming an automotive tech and making $60K a year, a journeyman machinist making $70K a year or a radiology technician making whatever they make (in excess of $50K a year, I'm sure). I'd say that a kid who takes one of those paths will be on a more solid footing after school than the kid who gets a 4 year degree in Sociology. But the kid who doesn't do any of those things, and just has his high school diploma or GED... in this economy, that kid is fairly well fucked.
IMO, what's really scary about high school age kids these days is so many of them can barely read & write or perform even basic math calculations. So many of our kids can't even keep up with kids who sleep on dirt floors and live in 3rd world huts. That's really scary. And there's no excuse for it. Kids need to get away from the pointless video games and reality TV shows, and get tuned in to math and science classes. Parents need to become more involved in their kids' education. And both parents and schools need to work together to make sure that more of our kids are globally competitive. The federal government doesn't decide the ins & outs of what is or isn't taught at a micro level. That's decided by state and local governments, and locally elected school boards. So each parent has the opportunity to have a say... but it seems few take that opportunity.
When it comes to equipment usually its donated by companies as they see the students as an investment as they'll be part of their work force. That's pretty much how the trades system works here in Alberta where the school gets some government funding but it relies also on donations from private companies who are linked to that trade.
I'm with you on the high school diploma these days meaning nothing and just going to college for the sake of saying you went there and got some shitty diploma or degree you can't even use to land a job is just a waste of time. I honestly wish when I was in high school and they were doing the whole thing about planning your future they would have informed me about the trades because as a 17 year old I didn't know a damn thing but instead they pushed the post secondary route and wasted two years of my life, which I could have used to get my journeyman status a lot earlier and made more money a lot sooner instead of having to pay off student loans.
maildude
Postal Paranoiac
My vote for POTW.:hatsoff:
Similar threads
