Israeli Attacks Gaza Strip, Killing 200+

[Philbert]

Never EVER greet a Muslim man by extending your right paw !
It'll go over like Di - No - Mite if you do.

I know what you meant to say, but...it's the left hand that can get you killed. That's the butt hand.
We wouldn't want someone we liked to go up to Achmed and extend his left hand to shake...

 

[costporsche]

none of the alqueada leaders said anything about this. this is just proof that the alquada terrorism is not linked and not the same as the Palestinian liberation movement. as such, we cant view them in the same light.

this issue is way deeper and older than most, if not all, of us here.

 

[LBP 76]

Re: Hamas wages Iran's Proxy war on Israel

Since I have a good deal of personal knowledge on subjects that I talk about, and you so obviously don't (although that never seems to stop you), your approval is so useless and trivial as to not matter at all.
Please keep any approval of my posts you may have, a secret known only to yourself.

Care to exchange some of your juvenile condescention for some factual proof of my supposed errors?

 

[Philbert]

none of the alqueada leaders said anything about this. this is just proof that the alquada terrorism is not linked and not the same as the Palestinian liberation movement. as such, we cant view them in the same light.

this issue is way deeper and older than most, if not all, of us here.

What are you refering to?
As for the issues being ancient, you are confusing the Eastern European conflicts maybe?
The Hebrews and the Arabs got along quite well many years ago, the conflict began, more or less, with Nasser and his ambitions to "rule" all the Middle East, and other political reasons. Local people usually get along well when living alongside each other.
Judaism and Islam are very closely related in history, Abraham being the Father of the Hebrews and his brother Ishmael being the father of the Arab race. Both are Semetic religions, and share many commonalities.
Once again, ambition and politics is the root cause of the Middle Eastern conflict.

 

[costporsche]

the fact that OBL and his cronies havent said anything and have stayed out of this?

You can't bring NYC, London, etc. into this since these are two seperate movements that have different objectives and no correlation to each other.

 

[Philbert]

Re: Hamas wages Iran's Proxy war on Israel

Fine. Factually prove me wrong once. Just once on a point of your's I disagreed with. You couldn't do it in the other Muslim thread and you haven't done it here either.

Several times you have thrown that out..."prove to me"...and you don't get it.
If you can find a fact that is wrong, you prove it.
I know what I am saying, and you are just making things up as you go along. I don't need to prove anything; but since it seems to be a big deal to you, go for it...prove me wrong. Be sure to include the source.
I can take it.
I care more for knowledge than I do about being right. I know that is an alien concept to you, but maybe when you grow up someday you'll understand.
Maybe.

 

[LBP 76]

Re: Hamas wages Iran's Proxy war on Israel

Several times you have thrown that out..."prove to me"...and you don't get it.
If you can find a fact that is wrong, you prove it.
I know what I am saying, and you are just making things up as you go along. I don't need to prove anything; but since it seems to be a big deal to you, go for it...prove me wrong. Be sure to include the source.
I can take it.
I care more for knowledge than I do about being right. I know that is an alien concept to you, but maybe when you grow up someday you'll understand.
Maybe.

Hello?

YOU were the one that said in post #153 above that I 'finally got something right'. Which means you are saying I got everything else before wrong.

So what were they?

If there are SO many then surely you can point out and factually prove just 1.

Just 1.

 

[costporsche]

uhh... I think there was a miscommunication here... everyone here is over 18. Let's try to show this by refraining from ad hominem attacks. This goes to everyone.

Also, isn't Ishmael the son of Abraham?

And I never said "proof" on to you. I said that to the general audience here, which includes you, the other posters in this thread, and the lurkers. Just because soemthing was obvious to me doesnt mean that it was for everyone else.

when I said "this issue is way deeper and older than most, if not all, of us here.", I specifically said "if not all", just in case there was anyone here over the age of 60 years. That's the age of this occupation.

You mentioned that "ambition and politics" is the root cause of this. I can't (and havent) really agree(d) or disagree(d) with that.

 

[Philbert]

uhh... I think there was a miscommunication here... everyone here is over 18. Let's try to show this by refraining from ad hominem attacks. This goes to everyone.

Also, isn't Ishmael the son of Abraham?

And I never said "proof" on to you. I said that to the general audience here, which includes you, the other posters in this thread, and the lurkers. Just because soemthing was obvious to me doesnt mean that it was for everyone else.

when I said "this issue is way deeper and older than most, if not all, of us here.", I specifically said "if not all", just in case there was anyone here over the age of 60 years. That's the age of this occupation.

You mentioned that "ambition and politics" is the root cause of this. I can't (and havent) really agree(d) or disagree(d) with that.

You keep refering to things without a reference, so I am not sure what you are talking about.
However...you are right, I was wrong. Ismael was Abraham's eldest son, from Hagar his younger Egyptian wife. The connection of the Islamic peoples to Abraham is through Ismael.
And there hasn't been an occupation for 60 years, not by Israel. The occupation refers to the territories gained by Israel in the 6-Day war.

 

[costporsche]

israel still controls/occupies those territories.

and whats unclear bout my posts? May be i can clear it up...

 

[Wainkerr99]

I don't think this news link has been posted yet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7808231.stm

 

[Facetious]

I know what you meant to say, but...it's the left hand that can get you killed. That's the butt hand.
We wouldn't want someone we liked to go up to Achmed and extend his left hand to shake...

:hatsoff: :o
Just don't shake hands when in doubt ! Bow, peck 'em on the cheek . . . something :dunno: :rofl2:




Aside -
Will Fatah and Hamas finally go at it ?
Abbas (Pal Authority) is pleading with Hamas to stop firing the rockets into Israel but to no avail. The Hamas militants seem to want to draw the Israeli ground forces into the Gaza. If this is, in fact, the case, a closely observed cease fire / cooling off period should be in order.

:2 cents:

 

[Philbert]

I am watching the situation closely...this would seem to be developing as a good opportunity for Fatah to take back control of Gaza. They love to shoot off those expensive weapons we bought them.
You are gonna see a lot more dead "civillians" if that happens.
For some close to the scene intel, check out the debka.com website...Israeli intel former and current members provide a good bit of info, albeit selected for Western consumption.

 

[BlueBalls]

The continued carpet bombing of Gaza is absolutly disgusting, what do the Israelis think in doing this they are going to do, change the minds of those moderate Palistinians which would result in a regiem change, No it is not the only thing this continued abuse of power is giving adequate propaganda to all those extreamists and in turn is going to lead to many more of those moderates running towards them.

Israel has the right to retaliate of course it does, but you would think they would show a little more restraint. Blindly bombing anywhere they can see is the actions of a group of thugs. The Israelis are dropping leaflets over Gaza telling those innocents who are getting in the way of the bombs to leave, well, where are they supposed to go? There is no where to go!

 

[Voyeur De Jour]

Guest111, going back a page, you said that no information we find is going to be 100% free of bias. Correct. That's why we

Go back and read that Heritage Foundation (US conservative think tank) article from 25 years ago (I posted the link). They document how one-sided so many of the UN resolutions were where any fair minded person would have at least shared the blame between the parties involved.

It's also amazing that so little has changed in the last quarter century.

I also looked at the liberal Brookings Institution for articles THEY have on Israel. While not as sympathetic as Heritage, you won't find any that are as critical as the UN. And this is the same UN that puts countries that have, until very recently, accepted slavery on the human rights committee.

D-rock, great post. A lot of your post could also be applied to September 11th and the lack of significant reaction of Muslims around the world.

The Palestinians have been on the wrong side of the biggest, most important issues in the 20th century. They supported the Nazis in WWII, they supported the USSR in the cold war and they support radical (hateful) Islamic fundamentalism now. But we can't put this out or factor this into the current equation.

People bending over backwards to support the Palestinians and forgive them for their barbaric acts reeks of political correctness. Covering for them is NOT going to help the situation, instead it only makes it worse (again, very little has changed in the last 25 years ... and this is largely the effect of people making excuses for them).

It's like making excuses for a misbehaving child in school. At some point the child has to start behaving and do the work given to him in order to pass and move on. Merely making excuses for the child and passing him as a matter of policy (wouldn't want to hurt his self-esteem!) means he isn't prepared to function in the real world. So, he graduates and becomes a dysfunctional member of society ... ending up in jail or dead.

The Palestinians have become that dysfunctional member of the international society and whenever they do wrong, there are endless people willing to see them as the innocent victim and their opponent as a cruel bully. Making excuses for them merely prolongs this bad behavior of their's ... and like the juvenile delinquent above, this political correctness will only make things worse for them in the long run.

 

[Facetious]

I am watching the situation closely...this would seem to be developing as a good opportunity for Fatah to take back control of Gaza. They love to shoot off those expensive weapons we bought them.
You are gonna see a lot more dead "civillians" if that happens.
.

and Israel will somehow be held to account for every one of those civilian war deaths.
I can hear it already . . "If it wasn't for Israel, none of this would have happened in the first place !"

 

[guest111]

As far as debating, I'm probably done. I have been doing it with other people in public. And it feels like I'm going in circles..
And some of the things i have said, especially the conversations about something being "bias", has been misinterpreted, which is to be expected on an internet forum.

Hopefully, some have seen the other sites and links i have posted all through the thread.

I'm just going to post articles (if that)



Israeli troops enter Gaza Strip

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7809959.stm



Propaganda war: trusting what we see?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7809371.stm

 

[guest111]

and Israel will somehow be held to account for every one of those civilian war deaths.
I can hear it already . . "If it wasn't for Israel, none of this would have happened in the first place !"

eh....

Look at the history. They have to be even SOMEWHAT accountable.
Anyone who believes that they are not accountable whatsoever, I wonder about..

Who even broke this ceasefire???

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians

 

[guest111]

No more communal eating??

I know for a fact that it still occurs in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

 

[guest111]

At least 435 Palestinians killed in Gaza in one week, At least 75 children and 21 women have been killed during the offensive on one of the world's most densely populated areas.

http://www.focus-fen.net/?id=n165554