Islam Mandatory, Christianity Optional in French Schools

[SabrinaDeep]

I invite you to translate and read the comments by the French people. As usual, the only islamophobic are the politicians with an agenda and just a bunch of brainwashed idiots who bend over to Islam for fear of retaliation. The majority of people start having enough of this bullshit and i forecast black times for this worldwide generation of communist politicians with an agenda for globalized slavery.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/politiqu...era-obligatoire-les-lumieres-facultatives.php

 

[Supafly]

I agree with you on the issue of the character of making one mandatory, one optional. Yet my reasons are contrary to your view.

I think the decision was rather made for not upsetting the judeo-christian community, as the classeswould will be in large portions about then history of the religions, with all their failings. That is what I get from the article.

Well, living next door to France, I will know VERY soon, our papers will go wild over this program

 

[assari]

Western people vote and elect their leaders, leaders want that millions of Arabs refugees come to the Western countries so this is a democratic event.

 

[SabrinaDeep]

I agree with you on the issue of the character of making one mandatory, one optional. Yet my reasons are contrary to your view.

I think the decision was rather made for not upsetting the judeo-christian community, as the classeswould will be in large portions about then history of the religions, with all their failings. That is what I get from the article.

Well, living next door to France, I will know VERY soon, our papers will go wild over this program

Damn, these cuckold Christians and Jews...now we gotta study Islam to please them...

 

[Jagger69]

A strong case for not allowing any type of religion to be taught in public schools.

 

[Johan]

One should know that the article was written not by an actual journalist but the spoke-prson of Sens Commun, a right-wing christian lobby.

Also, studying Islam does not mean forcing islam on students. It means trying to understand the religion, give students different perspectives on it, look at it from a historical perspective, a social perspective.
It can be profitable for muslims and non-muslims. Non-muslims (christians, jews or atheists) would learn about this religion, which would be a good thing 'cause most non-muslims know very little about Islam (the same way that non christiand know little about christianity) and muslims would be given a different pespecive on their religion, a different pojt of view about things they are told in their families on in the mosquee.

 

[SabrinaDeep]

One should know that the article was written not by an actual journalist but the spoke-prson of Sens Commun, a right-wing christian lobby.

Also, studying Islam does not mean forcing islam on students. It means trying to understand the religion, give students different perspectives on it, look at it from a historical perspective, a social perspective.
It can be profitable for muslims and non-muslims. Non-muslims (christians, jews or atheists) would learn about this religion, which would be a good thing 'cause most non-muslims know very little about Islam (the same way that non christiand know little about christianity) and muslims would be given a different pespecive on their religion, a different pojt of view about things they are told in their families on in the mosquee.

1) I thought you were against any religions at school
2) I thought you were a fan of Thomas Jefferson
3) I thought you at least could understand the difference between mandatory and optional
4) You are a joke.

 

[Will E Worm]

The better option is deportation.

Here’s What Happened When Norway Started Deporting Radical Muslims

http://toprightnews.com/heres-what-happened-when-one-nation-started-deporting-radical-muslims/

Calls to deport Muslims, restrict Islam grow in wake of Paris attacks

http://www.examiner.com/article/calls-to-deport-muslims-restrict-islam-grow-wake-of-paris-attacks

 

[Johan]

A strong case for not allowing any type of religion to be taught in public schools.

Actually I think religions should be taught in public schools. But taught academicaly. Student should study christianism, Judaïsm, Islam and even Buddhism or Hinduism. Kids shpould learn about the very basics of these religions and how they influenced History (and how History influenced religions as well), Art, Science, etc...
Religion's influence of History, Art, Science, Geo-politics, etc. is to huge for kids to be left clueless about them.

What shouldn't be done in public schools is Bible/Quran/Torah studies.

1) I thought you were against any religions at school
2) I thought you were a fan of Thomas Jefferson
3) I thought you at least could understand the difference between mandatory and optional
4) You are a joke.

1) I thought you would understand the difference between studying christianism/Islam/Judaïsm and studying the Bible/Quran/Torah
2) Nope. I'm just an advocate of secularism
3) I do
4) Coming from you, I take it as a compliment.

 

[Deepcover]

One should know that the article was written not by an actual journalist but the spoke-prson of Sens Commun, a right-wing christian lobby.

Also, studying Islam does not mean forcing islam on students. It means trying to understand the religion, give students different perspectives on it, look at it from a historical perspective, a social perspective.
It can be profitable for muslims and non-muslims. Non-muslims (christians, jews or atheists) would learn about this religion, which would be a good thing 'cause most non-muslims know very little about Islam (the same way that non christiand know little about christianity) and muslims would be given a different pespecive on their religion, a different pojt of view about things they are told in their families on in the mosquee.

Yes that is true. Went to a Catholic hs and studied different religions including Islam. No one argued about it since it was part of the curriculum.

 

[SabrinaDeep]

Actually I think religions should be taught in public schools. But taught academicaly. Student should study christianism, Judaïsm, Islam and even Buddhism or Hinduism. Kids shpould learn about the very basics of these religions and how they influenced History (and how History influenced religions as well), Art, Science, etc...
Religion's influence of History, Art, Science, Geo-politics, etc. is to huge for kids to be left clueless about them.

What shouldn't be done in public schools is Bible/Quran/Torah studies.



1) I thought you would understand the difference between studying christianism/Islam/Judaïsm and studying the Bible/Quran/Torah
2) Nope. I'm just an advocate of secularism
3) I do
4) Coming from you, I take it as a compliment.

So what would you teach about Islam, leaving the Quran out of the equation? How Mohammed raped little girls? How Islam brought and is currently bringing poverty, desolation, destruction, annihilation of adversaries religious groups, erasure of cultural artifacts, oppression in any territories it has touched? Are you suggesting that your fucked up politicians intend to make learning Islam mandatory at schools in order to discourage people from ever opening the Quran and keep them away from your fav religion?

Can't you see how many times you contradict yourself and get beaten up by your own words? Aren't you tired of it? Everybody knows that if they made Christianism and Judaism mandatory and Islam optional you would have played your stupid islamophobic card: whom are you trying to fool, joke? When you make Islam mandatory and the rest optional you privilege one religion over the others, my dear secularism supporter of my ass. My Christian son must learn about Islam and might learn about Christianism if he decides to put some more hours on it, while your muslim son learns about Islam and will never be given the chance to explore different options. You support secularism like it's true that the sun revolves around earth. You are a trolling joke. No, it's not a compliment.

 

[Johan]

So what would you teach about Islam, leaving the Quran out of the equation? How Mohammed raped little girls? How Islam brought and is currently bringing poverty, desolation, destruction, annihilation of adversaries religious groups, erasure of cultural artifacts, oppression in any territories it has touched? Are you suggesting that your fucked up politicians intend to make learning Islam mandatory at schools in order to discourage people from ever opening the Quran and keep them away from your fav religion?

I would teach that there was a time when muslim countries were way ahead of christian countries about science, art, philosophy, etc. Then, for some reasons, tables have turned. Now we are the humanists and the progressies and they are the conservatives and the radicals.
I would insist that Both Bible and Quran can be used to build humanists and progressist civilisations or integrist and conservative civilisations, depending on how theinterpretation of the scriptures.

At the very beginning of History, the dominating civilisations were from the middle-East : Egypt, Babylonia, Assyria, etc... These civilisations were way ahead of western civilisation. Then came Greece, Macedonia (Alexander the Great) and Rome became the #1 civilisations in the world (both in terms military power and cultural influence). Then, before it collapsed, the Roman empire was splitted inot the Eastern and the Western Empire and only the Eastern survived and became the Byzantine Empire and was #1 until the Arabs rised and over-powered the Byantin empire. Then around the XVIth century, Western Europe (and later the US) took the #1 spot once again.
Who can say for sure that the tables are not going to turn once again soon or later ?

Can't you see how many times you contradict yourself and get beaten up by your own words? Aren't you tired of it? Everybody knows that if they made Christianism and Judaism mandatory and Islam optional you would have played your stupid islamophobic card: whom are you trying to fool, joke? When you make Islam mandatory and the rest optional you privilege one religion over the others, my dear secularism supporter of my ass. My Christian son must learn about Islam and might learn about Christianism if he decides to put some more hours on it, while your muslim son learns about Islam and will never be given the chance to explore different options. You support secularism like it's true that the sun revolves around earth. You are a trolling joke. No, it's not a compliment.

1) I have no "muslim" son. I have no son, nor daughters. And if I had one he would choose the religion he wants but I wouls strongly advise him to choose to be an atheists.
2) Secularism means being neutral about religions, not pushing one over the others. To me, studying one of them from a neutral perspective is not favorising it.
If I say "Islam can be good and it can also be bad", am I pushing Islam ? What if I say the same about christianism, am I pushing christianism ?

 

[Jagger69]

Actually I think religions should be taught in public schools. But taught academicaly. Student should study christianism, Judaïsm, Islam and even Buddhism or Hinduism. Kids shpould learn about the very basics of these religions and how they influenced History (and how History influenced religions as well), Art, Science, etc...
Religion's influence of History, Art, Science, Geo-politics, etc. is to huge for kids to be left clueless about them.

What shouldn't be done in public schools is Bible/Quran/Torah studies.

We're splitting hairs here. I didn't say that religion shouldn't be discussed....I said it shouldn't be taught. I remember taking World Civ I in high school and we discussed Zoroastrianism and its influence in the development of ensuing religions, how it affected ancient history, etc. I can still remember my teacher's description of the religion as being (paraphrasing here) "It was a monotheistic religion that saw the world as a struggle between the forces of good and the forces of evil". Now, even though this is not entirely correct and is certainly not a detailed description, it was more than sufficient for the purpose of the class (which was to teach history, not religion). When I entered college (and began a tuition-based curriculum), I chose to take a World Religions class that not only taught the tenets of the major world religions but compared and examined their relative levels of merit with much analytical discussion that often grew quite animated....but, again, this was not publicly-funded nor was I required to take it. I paid for it (well, my parents did) and chose to take it. Big difference.

 

[SabrinaDeep]

I would teach that there was a time when muslim countries were way ahead of christian countries about science, art, philosophy, etc. Then, for some reasons, tables have turned. Now we are the humanists and the progressies and they are the conservatives and the radicals.
I would insist that Both Bible and Quran can be used to build humanists and progressist civilisations or integrist and conservative civilisations, depending on how theinterpretation of the scriptures.

At the very beginning of History, the dominating civilisations were from the middle-East : Egypt, Babylonia, Assyria, etc... These civilisations were way ahead of western civilisation. Then came Greece, Macedonia (Alexander the Great) and Rome became the #1 civilisations in the world (both in terms military power and cultural influence). Then, before it collapsed, the Roman empire was splitted inot the Eastern and the Western Empire and only the Eastern survived and became the Byzantine Empire and was #1 until the Arabs rised and over-powered the Byantin empire. Then around the XVIth century, Western Europe (and later the US) took the #1 spot once again.
Who can say for sure that the tables are not going to turn once again soon or later ?



1) I have no "muslim" son. I have no son, nor daughters. And if I had one he would choose the religion he wants but I wouls strongly advise him to choose to be an atheists.
2) Secularism means being neutral about religions, not pushing one over the others. To me, studying one of them from a neutral perspective is not favorising it.
If I say "Islam can be good and it can also be bad", am I pushing Islam ? What if I say the same about christianism, am I pushing christianism ?

Egypt, Babylonia, Assyria,...none of these "countries" were Islamic...there is no Islam before 7th century. Islam has never been ahead of anybody in anything, but repression. You are a joke.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

Egypt, Babylonia, Assyria,...none of these "countries" were Islamic...there is no Islam before 7th century. Islam has never been ahead of anybody in anything, but repression. You are a joke.

Johan is refering to the Golden Age of Islam, a period in the Middle East where religion did not interfere and Islamic countries flourished in economics, politics, science, art, etc. People could believe whatever they wanted as long as they did not infringe other's rights. It ended once the economy and politics collapsed (partly because of the crusades) and Islam tightened it's grip and indeed became repressing. The progress made in that period was significant.

Islamic Golden Age

 

[SabrinaDeep]

Johan is refering to the Golden Age of Islam, a period in the Middle East where religion did not interfere and Islamic countries flourished in economics, politics, science, art, etc. People could believe whatever they wanted as long as they did not infringe other's rights. It ended once the economy and politics collapsed (partly because of the crusades) and Islam tightened it's grip and indeed became repressing. The progress made in that period was significant.

Islamic Golden Age

He's clearly not. Babylonia, Assyria...nothing to fucking do with Islam. They were pre Christian civilizations and since he put them together with Egypt, one must assume that he was talking of Pharaohs Egypt as well.

 

[Johan]

And you dare call me a joke ? You're an ignorant, an idiot, a fool.
I refer to the "golden age of Islam" and to Assyria and Babylonia, and also to Rome, to the Byzantine empire, to european renaissance and what followed 'til now.
My point is that, over History, tables have changed about who was the military and cultural dominating power and that no one can predict for sures that in the future , we will not again be a period during which the Middle East will radiate ot the world while Western civilization will fall back on themselves and go throught a dark age.

My point is that all religions can be used to do good or evil , it just depends on the person who interprets the scriptures and what interpretation he does. Do you know that, in Asia, there is a spike of radical buddhism ?

 

[SabrinaDeep]

And you dare call me a joke ? You're an ignorant, an idiot, a fool.
I refer to the "golden age of Islam" and to Assyria and Babylonia, and also to Rome, to the Byzantine empire, to european renaissance and what followed 'til now.
My point is that, over History, tables have changed about who was the military and cultural dominating power and that no one can predict for sures that in the future , we will not again be a period during which the Middle East will radiate ot the world while Western civilization will fall back on themselves and go throught a dark age.

My point is that all religions can be used to do good or evil , it just depends on the person who interprets the scriptures and what interpretation he does. Do you know that, in Asia, there is a spike of radical buddhism ?

You connect Babylonia Assyria and Pharaohs Egypt with Islam. You are a joke. As usual you divert threads topic into nonsense shit and fail to explain to us why it is good in this case that Islam is mandatory and Christianity and Judaism are optional. WHo gives a shit how the future will be? You always attack Christianity and defend Islam calling everybody islamophobic and now that close to Versailles they show you that Islam is privileged over Christianity and Judaism (at school) you come talking about Babylonia and Assyria, instead of condemning the fact that one religion is privileged over another. Of course if the mandatory one was Christianity... Have a good weekend, joke, and enjoy islamization, until it last.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

I think you guys are discussing past each other.

As far as I understand the article it's about the reformation of education. When it comes to history the study of islam will be mandatory, while medieval christianity becomes optional (history teachers doing the latter should focus on the influence of the church on rural life). The reasoning given would be that in a society in need of integration and national cohesion, this would spark curiousity for other religions, and revulsion for the own Judeo-Christian roots. By cutting the roots (revulsion) one should become more open towards others. Please correct me if I translated / interpreted this wrong.

So first of all it's not about teaching a religion but about discussing religion and it's influence on society. I do agree with Sabrina that one should not only focus on one religion. From a historical perspective all kind of religions had a mayor impact on society and (in this case) France, or the development of Europe in a broader context. To understand the world of today you can't just simply ignore the own roots. But I don't see anything wrong with Johan's reasoning eather. The influence of Islam hasn't always been what it is today.

So... Am I missing something?

 

[georges]

I invite you to translate and read the comments by the French people. As usual, the only islamophobic are the politicians with an agenda and just a bunch of brainwashed idiots who bend over to Islam for fear of retaliation. The majority of people start having enough of this bullshit and i forecast black times for this worldwide generation of communist politicians with an agenda for globalized slavery.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/politiqu...era-obligatoire-les-lumieres-facultatives.php

You can thank the socialist douchebags who voted Hollande, Hollande got electoral voices in exchange of Mosquees constructions. Some articles in French that can be translated and which show what is really happening in France:
http://lagauchematuer.fr/2015/01/29...le-ps-a-negocie-des-mosquees-contre-des-voix/
http://lagauchematuer.fr/2015/04/20...ure-chretiens-profanes-chaque-jour-en-france/
http://lagauchematuer.fr/2015/04/19...nt-des-francais-le-conseil-du-culte-musulman/
http://lagauchematuer.fr/2015/04/25...s-sont-vises-mais-valls-sen-lave-les-mains-2/
A civil war might happen soon at the rate things are going.