bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
Dump a tab on the rookie? Give him some grunt? What?
Is Martin a big pussy, or Incognito a fucking goon, or is there more to this?
- Thread starter bobjustbob
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I'm going with Incognito and a large part of the Miami Dolphins that were either involved in stuff like this or did nothing when they knew it was going on are complete slime. It's pretty bad the people jumping to Incognito's defense like the culture of this type of stuff around the league makes it alright. Hazing isn't a good thing. It's unacceptable and this goes even beyond that.
Just think of what would happen at most people's jobs if a person in a leadership position threatened a coworker to the point that person was justifiably worried about their and their families safety, practically extorted 10% of that person's (and extorted others) income for their own vacations and frivolous spending even though the one doing the extorting is a millionaire, generally made another coworkers life a living hell, and generally has a long rap sheet of being a complete douchebag at their current job, the jobs before that one, and in college. All this is happening while the company looked the other way and even people above that person encouraged parts of it.
I have a feeling that when all is said and done there is a good chance Martin is going to cash out big, justifiably, due to lawsuits with the team, especially after this if he can't reasonably find another job in the league. Even if Martin is right for doing this the good ol boys network for the NFL will make it hard to get future employment. Add all that together it also tells why players are rightfully afraid to come out in incidences like this.
Just think of what would happen at most people's jobs if a person in a leadership position threatened a coworker to the point that person was justifiably worried about their and their families safety, practically extorted 10% of that person's (and extorted others) income for their own vacations and frivolous spending even though the one doing the extorting is a millionaire, generally made another coworkers life a living hell, and generally has a long rap sheet of being a complete douchebag at their current job, the jobs before that one, and in college. All this is happening while the company looked the other way and even people above that person encouraged parts of it.
I have a feeling that when all is said and done there is a good chance Martin is going to cash out big, justifiably, due to lawsuits with the team, especially after this if he can't reasonably find another job in the league. Even if Martin is right for doing this the good ol boys network for the NFL will make it hard to get future employment. Add all that together it also tells why players are rightfully afraid to come out in incidences like this.
Martin probably won't play another down in the NFL, because of concerns over loyalty and trust. In other words, if you think this has only gone on in the Dolphins' locker room, you're sorely mistaken. Look at how many former NFL players have either directly or indirectly come to Incognito's defense, while there is little if any outrage on the sports channels from former players or even less sympathy for Martin. Martin is now a pariah. He ratted out a fellow player, and no one can trust him, and the general manager that will allow that to enter their locker room does not exist.
I think the rest of the league is pissed at Incognito, because he took the hazing WAY too far, and now the spoiled babies of the NFL won't get to haze each other anymore, like they used to. However NFL players are MUCH more pissed at Martin, for exposing what really goes on in their up-until-now insulated locker room world. "That's the way we've always done it," is just about the shittiest reason imaginable for engaging in any behavior. You do realize that's how white Southerners justified Jim Crow laws and lynchings, right?
However, what I find most concerning is the contention amongst former players that coaches and other team authorities aren't allowed access to what goes on in the locker room. I've heard no less than four former players strongly assert that coaches are not allowed to know exactly what players are doing to each other, and the coaches, general managers and owners accept that. (?!?!?!?!?!) However, I think the lawsuit settlement that's going to afford Martin a VERY comfortable lifestyle for the rest of his life is gonna change the "culture of the locker room" completely. And rightfully so.
I think the rest of the league is pissed at Incognito, because he took the hazing WAY too far, and now the spoiled babies of the NFL won't get to haze each other anymore, like they used to. However NFL players are MUCH more pissed at Martin, for exposing what really goes on in their up-until-now insulated locker room world. "That's the way we've always done it," is just about the shittiest reason imaginable for engaging in any behavior. You do realize that's how white Southerners justified Jim Crow laws and lynchings, right?
However, what I find most concerning is the contention amongst former players that coaches and other team authorities aren't allowed access to what goes on in the locker room. I've heard no less than four former players strongly assert that coaches are not allowed to know exactly what players are doing to each other, and the coaches, general managers and owners accept that. (?!?!?!?!?!) However, I think the lawsuit settlement that's going to afford Martin a VERY comfortable lifestyle for the rest of his life is gonna change the "culture of the locker room" completely. And rightfully so.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
..."culture of the locker room"
That's the key here. Players present and past recognize these kind of things as being of the status quo. Coaches allow these things because they were once players and believe this is a part of being on a team. Stay out of the locker room? Bullshit. All of these players are under contracts from rookies to veterans. They are are all under your command. Is your GM going to manage your players? Let him do that and the coaches just play video and make X's and O's.
This is clearly not just a Miami problem. This **** is league wide and I'm sure in the college ranks.
That's the key here. Players present and past recognize these kind of things as being of the status quo. Coaches allow these things because they were once players and believe this is a part of being on a team. Stay out of the locker room? Bullshit. All of these players are under contracts from rookies to veterans. They are are all under your command. Is your GM going to manage your players? Let him do that and the coaches just play video and make X's and O's.
This is clearly not just a Miami problem. This **** is league wide and I'm sure in the college ranks.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
One thing I forgot, has anyone here been a rookie in a firehouse or police station or EMT?
"Wash my car rookie." FUCK YOU! Go home and tell your wife to wash your fucking car.
"Wash my car rookie." FUCK YOU! Go home and tell your wife to wash your fucking car.
I work for probably the biggest international sports corporation in the world, (FIFA) and I can tell you there for a while when there was all kinds of scandals at the top of the corporation, the **** rolled downhill to us "peons." Hence, everyone associated with FIFA, from the boardrooms to the support staffs to the stadium maintenance to the players themselves had to go through a training seminar, wherein it was clearly established that harassment of any kind would not be tolerated in any venue. And they went to special pains to assert this especially pertained to the locker rooms. Of course, club soccer locker rooms are different, in that it's not unusual to have ******** players involved. (If you're not chosen by a pro club by the time you're 9-12, you're probably not going to play in any elite league in Europe. For example, some years ago, FC Barcelona took an 8 year old promising, but rather sickly Argentine *** into their organization, and paid for his medical issues. You might have heard of him. Lionel Messi. And teams will, from time to time, bring the better young players into the fold at the end of seasons and such to get them acclimated to the rigors of the pro game.)
With that in mind, it's important to remember for all the talk of locker room culture and NFL traditions and such, it's still a business, and as I said in my original post, it won't surprise me in the least to see the Dolphins and the NFL pony up a considerable amount of cash to Martin over this. (With a gag order, of course.) And it also wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn the NFL is having seminars in all the teams' training facilities, wherein players will be told in no uncertain terms what will and will not be tolerated. Nothing like a Richie Incognito to make the whole organization suffer...
With that in mind, it's important to remember for all the talk of locker room culture and NFL traditions and such, it's still a business, and as I said in my original post, it won't surprise me in the least to see the Dolphins and the NFL pony up a considerable amount of cash to Martin over this. (With a gag order, of course.) And it also wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn the NFL is having seminars in all the teams' training facilities, wherein players will be told in no uncertain terms what will and will not be tolerated. Nothing like a Richie Incognito to make the whole organization suffer...
Jack Davenport
Banned
Martin needs to invest in a nice set of pliers.
The pussification of America. 300 lb NFL offensive linemen curling up into little balls like a bitch??? We are truly doomed.
Yeah, because having a juvenile jock mentality and solving ones problems through ******** when there is a reasonable alternative is so much better. The world would be a much better place if people did that instead of acting like adults.
PlasmaTwa2
The Second-Hottest Man in my ******'s Basement
I'll never understand how these guys can turn hazing into such a fucked up ******. I understand messing with the rookies a little but there are obvious red lines to that. Hide his bag? That doesn't hurt anyone, so ok. Make him wear something funny during practice? Getting a little worse, but still fine. Having a well known moron like Incognito threaten a player and orchestrate an entire table to get up and leave when he sits down even though his race a well known fact? That's unacceptable. This is just racism being projected as a team-building exercise and I hope the NFL comes down HARD on the Dolphins and Incognito for it. Not just for the sake of the team and the league, but for all sports. Hazing is a problem in every sport and there needs to be a drastic change to that.
To tell the truth, I think the true pussy here is Richie Incognito. I've found the guys that try to make themselves feel better at the expense of others are the biggest wussies around. More than that, though, what kind of teammate is he? All this talk of NFL traditions and being tough and such; what good is a guy who tries to humiliate a teammate? Seems to me you're wasting your time and effort on something meaningless, and you're pretty much insuring your teammate won't be able to perform at his peak. More times than not, the truly weak man is the guy who tries to act tough, and given all I've seen and read of Mr. Richie Incognito, he's probably the biggest pussy to ever don a football uniform.
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Incognito is likely the biggest asshole in pro football today. However, Martin needs to grow some balls and learn to deal with dickheads like him. In my occupation there is a similar process that includes practical jokes and teasing of rookies who experience that type of harassment until they show that they can pass muster. If they display weakness in the process, the tendency is to turn up the pressure on them. It's nothing more that survival of the fittest. Although I think Incognito is a total jerk for saying and doing what he did to Martin (especially the racial comments and the threat to "**** you"), the guy needs to learn how to just let it all slide off his back and move one. It's how your earn the respect of your peers in what is, in reality, a perverted good ol' boys system that establishes the pecking order in the NFL and many other social and business organizations. Fair or politically-correct or not, it's just the way it works. You can either handle it or you can't. Doesn't look like Martin has the cujones to handle it. If he can't, he's not NFL material....period. Maybe he should get a job as a kindergarten teacher or something. :dunno:
When I was in college, all my friends thought it was a HUGE deal that Sigma Chi sought me out to be a member of their frat. I was reticent, because let's face it, fraternities have earned their douchebag rep through the years. However, I was told by a number of people that a Sigma Chi membership looks damned good on a resume, and I wanted to step out of my comfort zone, and so I decided to pledge. And it lasted all of a week. Nothing is worth being degraded. And now I make considerably more money than most, if not all the douchebags that expected me to "go along to get along," so the Sigma Chi membership didn't mean ****.Now, I'm not talking about practical jokes or just giving a guy a hard time. I'm talking about the get down on all fours so some rich idiot can take a paddle to your ass kind of thing. I can take a razzing as well as the next guy, but when he says he's going to **** in my mouth, he threatens my life and the lives of ****** members, and he goes out of his way at every and any occasion to ******* and humiliate me, well, that's not a case of I need to grow some balls. It's a case of this just ain't worth being associated with. No nuts would be to continue to take that level of *****. It takes a lot of balls for Jonathan Martin to not go home, get a baseball bat and a pair of pliers, and go medieval on mr. incognito's skeevy ass. Sometimes the most manly thing you can do is to walk away, because it just ain't worth it.
My workplace is somewhat similar to yours, and it can be fun, but *****, harassment and downright threats to peoples' lives is WAY beyond the pale and not tolerated at any level.
My workplace is somewhat similar to yours, and it can be fun, but *****, harassment and downright threats to peoples' lives is WAY beyond the pale and not tolerated at any level.
bahodeme
Closed Account
Martin could have went to the other end of the spectrum and shot all involved. Luckily he chose to walk away entirely. I blame the organization for this debacle. You bring Incognito, who has a history when he was with Nebraska & St. Louis, had an incident during the team charity golf game after signing him, and you expect him in to provide leadership to the team?! Then you draft a guy whose personality would not fit in that environment.
alexpnz
Lord Dipstick
Bottom line...
Incognito is your typical entitled, jock douchebag who took it a little too for on a guy who graduated from Stanford, who's parents are Harvard lawyers and had never been around animalistic behavior like this before.
2 different worlds....
The only 2 people at fault here are Philbin and Ireland.
Ireland will fall for this and Martin will go play for Andrew Luck and the Colts or Harbaugh in San Francisco.....his Stanford guys.
Incognito will learn his lesson from this incident about today's youth and their more "emo" sides and he will get a job somewhere else...he's too good a player.
Incognito is your typical entitled, jock douchebag who took it a little too for on a guy who graduated from Stanford, who's parents are Harvard lawyers and had never been around animalistic behavior like this before.
2 different worlds....
The only 2 people at fault here are Philbin and Ireland.
Ireland will fall for this and Martin will go play for Andrew Luck and the Colts or Harbaugh in San Francisco.....his Stanford guys.
Incognito will learn his lesson from this incident about today's youth and their more "emo" sides and he will get a job somewhere else...he's too good a player.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
Incognito just filed a suit. Many players past and present created the case for him. Locker room conduct doesn't have standards. Do's and don'ts. How and who decided to cut him? Where in the employee handbook details his violations?
