Irreconcilable differences

[mongo18]

I don't post here as much as I used to, because it does get exhausting and I have (arguably) better things to do. But I do keep an eye on things. I've been meaning to post a thread like this for a while, and reading through the bullshit that whimsy and FOUser#4510856320198a have been spraying all over the board in the last 24 hours has finally motivated me.

trump isn't the problem, he's just a vile piece of shit that's profiting off the problem. The real problem is the republican party, and the far right that seems to be resurgent in many western nations. They reject expertise, they deny facts, they celebrate ignorance and baseless hatred. Trying to reason with them is pointless, as anyone on this board will surely understand. They've drawn their line and nothing will bring them back across it. If anything, their line keeps receding while they argue that that's where it always was. If we really try to crystallize the problem, it might not even be the far right, rather willful ignorance and rejection of the truth that has brought us climate change deniers, anti vaxxers, flat earthers, and now trump supporters. But of all these manifestations of the problem, I think the far right is by far the most dangerous.

So how does it end??? That's what I want to know. We can get rid of trump, but that doesn't get rid of his cult, which is global (yes, there are MAGA bumper stickers here in Australia, unfortunately, the USA doesn't have a monopoly on stupidity and cowardice). At some point, those of us that are trying to move forward, to advance society, and continue on the trajectory of increasing knowledge, freedom, and standards of living for all humankind, are going to bump up against the immovable, recalcitrant right, and realize that not only are they holding us back, but they are the biggest threat to our future.

They can't be argued or reasoned with. They can't be left alone and lived alongside, because they won't stop until they've forced everyone to live by their rules. So what the fuck do we do with/about them???

I've read that the resurgence of the far right is just a death throe, that they are on the verge of becoming extinct. It's a nice thought, but I have a hard time putting my faith in the hope that they're just going to fade away. They've managed to completely subvert US democracy in only a few decades, so obviously they're a threat that can't be ignored.

I don't know if there can be a peaceful way forward from here. Another US civil war to shut down these rowdy rednecks for a couple more centuries might be the only option.

Does anyone see any realistic way to bring these extreme right wingers back into the fold? Because I sure don't.

 

[xfire]

It's been going on for a long time, every mass shooting adds to the casualty list of the undeclared and unacknowledged hot civil war that's raging in this country.

 

[mongo18]

I guess I could also frame it this way:

It all starts with the idea that everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions, which I absolutely still support. But what if a wrong opinion gains enough traction that it becomes a threat to the majority? How do we defend against that without becoming what we're trying to defend against, given that debating, education, and shouting in faces has proven completely ineffective?

 

[xfire]

You can't fix these fucking people. They sincerely believe their own bullshit, rooted in racism and evangelical Christianity. They're a lost cause. Trump knows this and exploits the fuck out of them.

 

[mongo18]

That's what I'm getting at. If they can't be fixed, and they can't be coexisted with, what do we do about them? How is this going to play out?

 

[xfire]

I don't know. I don't discuss politics with my friends and family in real time or online. The only person I discuss politics with in person is my wife, but that's only because we have the same political views. I talk politics here and on twitter because I don't use my actual identity on either platform. I don't post anything political on facebook just cheezburger memes. I know that this shit is not going to end well.

 

[UnderBro]

"Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." - Will Durant

Here are a few films recommendations for those you who are having a hard time getting through your conservative friends and relatives:

The Brink (2019)

The Family (2019)

 

[FOUser#4510856320198a]

Here are a few recommendations for those of you who are having a hard time getting through to your Trump-obsessed, liberal pussy friends and relatives:

Is It Possible To Recover From Humiliation?

 

[Rey C.]

I don't know if there can be a peaceful way forward from here. Another US civil war to shut down these rowdy rednecks for a couple more centuries might be the only option.

Does anyone see any realistic way to bring these extreme right wingers back into the fold? Because I sure don't.

It all starts with the idea that everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions, which I absolutely still support. But what if a wrong opinion gains enough traction that it becomes a threat to the majority? How do we defend against that without becoming what we're trying to defend against, given that debating, education, and shouting in faces has proven completely ineffective?

I picked out your posts, because just a couple of weeks ago I heard a friend of mine's son saying some of the exact same things (including the civil war part) - only he's pegged to the right instead of to the left. The irony was too much to pass up. Especially on this section of the site, I don't post much anymore either. Juvenile name calling contests don't really interest me, and I figure that there are other things that I can be doing with my time. But yours was an interesting post, so...

No offense intended, but both of your (you and my fiend's 20-something son) impassioned diatribes remind me of that scene from Jerry McGuire. "Who's with me? Who's with me?!" And he goes marching toward the door.... alone. Remember it? Then the girl follows him out the door, more out of pity than actual conviction. In truth, what most people really want is a job, a warm place to sleep, food on the table, a decent education and safety for their children. People may care (more or less) about many other things. But those necessities are the bread in the panem et circenses deliverable that the overlord class knows must be maintained. A lot of what the activists on the right and the left are speaking about, or are arguing about, are legitimate concerns - and I don't believe that either is wrong in standing up for what they actually believe in (whether I agree or not). But if and when it comes down to actually laying down life and limb, those folks (who *think* that their side is the majority) will for the most part be marching alone into battle. And if it comes down to ANTIFA types doing battle with Proud Boy types in actual gun battles on city streets, the National Guard will simply be dispatched (by the string pullers) and they'll all be mowed down. The people who actually pull the strings simply won't have it.

Not saying that some sort of very limited dust up couldn't happen. But I don't believe that it would amount to much. Whether they're on the left or the right, if you want some troublesome Americans (or others) to sit down and shut up, just threaten to cancel the Super Bowl, the World Series and the Emmys/Grammys/Tonys. That's right, just cut off the circuses in panem et circenses. :elaugh: With that, Repub or Dem, leftie or rightie, male or female, Black or White, Jew or Gentile, straight or gay... most all would button their lips and stand down quick! Maybe sad, but certainly true. :yesyes:


It just comes down to the age old nature of the beast. Remember Mencken's words: The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.

And those words are precisely why I refuse to follow either herd of sheeple.

 

[georges]

I don't post here as much as I used to, because it does get exhausting and I have (arguably) better things to do. But I do keep an eye on things. I've been meaning to post a thread like this for a while, and reading through the bullshit that whimsy and FOUser#4510856320198a have been spraying all over the board in the last 24 hours has finally motivated me.

trump isn't the problem, he's just a vile piece of shit that's profiting off the problem. The real problem is the republican party, and the far right that seems to be resurgent in many western nations. They reject expertise, they deny facts, they celebrate ignorance and baseless hatred. Trying to reason with them is pointless, as anyone on this board will surely understand. They've drawn their line and nothing will bring them back across it. If anything, their line keeps receding while they argue that that's where it always was. If we really try to crystallize the problem, it might not even be the far right, rather willful ignorance and rejection of the truth that has brought us climate change deniers, anti vaxxers, flat earthers, and now trump supporters. But of all these manifestations of the problem, I think the far right is by far the most dangerous.

So how does it end??? That's what I want to know. We can get rid of trump, but that doesn't get rid of his cult, which is global (yes, there are MAGA bumper stickers here in Australia, unfortunately, the USA doesn't have a monopoly on stupidity and cowardice). At some point, those of us that are trying to move forward, to advance society, and continue on the trajectory of increasing knowledge, freedom, and standards of living for all humankind, are going to bump up against the immovable, recalcitrant right, and realize that not only are they holding us back, but they are the biggest threat to our future.

They can't be argued or reasoned with. They can't be left alone and lived alongside, because they won't stop until they've forced everyone to live by their rules. So what the fuck do we do with/about them???

I've read that the resurgence of the far right is just a death throe, that they are on the verge of becoming extinct. It's a nice thought, but I have a hard time putting my faith in the hope that they're just going to fade away. They've managed to completely subvert US democracy in only a few decades, so obviously they're a threat that can't be ignored.

I don't know if there can be a peaceful way forward from here. Another US civil war to shut down these rowdy rednecks for a couple more centuries might be the only option.

Does anyone see any realistic way to bring these extreme right wingers back into the fold? Because I sure don't.

Maybe you should talk more about the bullshit spread by those defending Obama and his cronies as well as the leftist mainstream media constantly slandering and insulting Trump, I am not even talking about the antifa and the protesters against Justice Kavanaugh and those participated in the bullshit with than wrongful, unproven and false fabricated accusations against him and those served the cause of the democrats. I am not also mentionning how some police officers have been ambushed and killed by some felons/thugs with a case as big as the harraps dictionnary and as usual the hatred against law enforcement officers in the USA is caused by radical left protesters .

Trump unlike Obama isn't bowing in front of other countries and this is where the difference lies in. When you are for sanctuary cities, you favor illegals as well as criminals and unsafety for other citizens. Democrats love sanctuary cities and most of those cities are run by them. What about Democrats like Occasio Cortez, Ilhan Omar and Tlaib embracing far leftist socialist, antisemitic and antiamerican values, you give them a free pas??? We have seen the so called facts during the collusion dellusion thread which were all fabricated bs made by former Obama devotees who will stop at nothing to impeach Trump with baseless and false accusations. The far left with is perhaps way much more dangerous than the far right. How many deaths have caused stalinism, maoism and nazism? Far too much too count. Because if one is for his country and is a patriot, according to you he should pointed with the finger? What a nice display of tolerance coming from someone who supports Democrats so blindly without even asking question . Maybe some Australians don't like socialists and that is understandable. Like Reagan says "socialism is the equal distribution of misery". Name me please one positive thing socialism have brought to your country.

Remember Trump is America first, pro business, pro 2nd amendment and supports beak and claws all the law enforcement and military personnel. For many Americans, he represents the core values of what made America proud. A country without core values isn't a respected country.

People are fed up with leftist mainstream medias and all the impeachment circus. The leftist mainstream medias are part of the problem ,they are highly biased and unrealistic. See what results it has given with the elections in UK when a far leftist and an antisemite like Jeremy Corbyn lost. Leftists protesters got violent and threatened other people ... Again a nice display of tolerance from the unhinged left.

In politics, there is no really in between , you are either for a party/an idea or against it. In politics, in order to impose yourself you must have strong ideas and convictions and that make the differences irreconciable and alliances impossible.

 

[xfire]

Trump unlike Obama isn't bowing in front of other countries and this is where the difference lies in.

Trump is a timeshare, currently being occupied by Putin's Russia & Saudi Arabia, he's a fucking laughing stock no one respects, merely enjoying the power of the leverage of the office he holds, and you TrumpTards are fools.

 

[mongo18]

I picked out your posts, because just a couple of weeks ago I heard a friend of mine's son saying some of the exact same things (including the civil war part) - only he's pegged to the right instead of to the left. The irony was too much to pass up. Especially on this section of the site, I don't post much anymore either. Juvenile name calling contests don't really interest me, and I figure that there are other things that I can be doing with my time. But yours was an interesting post, so...

No offense intended, but both of your (you and my fiend's 20-something son) impassioned diatribes remind me of that scene from Jerry McGuire. "Who's with me? Who's with me?!" And he goes marching toward the door.... alone. Remember it? Then the girl follows him out the door, more out of pity than actual conviction. In truth, what most people really want is a job, a warm place to sleep, food on the table, a decent education and safety for their children. People may care (more or less) about many other things. But those necessities are the bread in the panem et circenses deliverable that the overlord class knows must be maintained. A lot of what the activists on the right and the left are speaking about, or are arguing about, are legitimate concerns - and I don't believe that either is wrong in standing up for what they actually believe in (whether I agree or not). But if and when it comes down to actually laying down life and limb, those folks (who *think* that their side is the majority) will for the most part be marching alone into battle. And if it comes down to ANTIFA types doing battle with Proud Boy types in actual gun battles on city streets, the National Guard will simply be dispatched (by the string pullers) and they'll all be mowed down. The people who actually pull the strings simply won't have it.

Not saying that some sort of very limited dust up couldn't happen. But I don't believe that it would amount to much. Whether they're on the left or the right, if you want some troublesome Americans (or others) to sit down and shut up, just threaten to cancel the Super Bowl, the World Series and the Emmys/Grammys/Tonys. That's right, just cut off the circuses in panem et circenses. :elaugh: With that, Repub or Dem, leftie or rightie, male or female, Black or White, Jew or Gentile, straight or gay... most all would button their lips and stand down quick! Maybe sad, but certainly true. :yesyes:


It just comes down to the age old nature of the beast. Remember Mencken's words: The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.

And those words are precisely why I refuse to follow either herd of sheeple.

You always take a ton of words to say nothing of value, and you completely missed my point.

Don't give me that "both sides are the same" bullshit. People who are too stupid or lazy to figure out what's actually going on use that line to try to make themselves sound cynical and worldly. The left don't support unethical, immoral, and illegal behavior in their leaders. That's part of the reason the dems have been losing so many elections, because they can't find a leader everyone's on board with. Republicans will vote for whoever has the R, no matter what that person does or says, and whatever criminal or stupid or otherwise behavior they display will be praised, supported, and excused. Republicans are loyal to their party first, their country and all their other supposed principles a distant second. Senate republicans are already publicly stating they'll acquit the president, before they've even considered the evidence and charges.
On top of that, this democrat controlled house has passed around 400 bills that the senate hasn't even voted on. The senate has passed about 70 bills this year. To say that both sides are the same shows a distinct lack of brains or spine.

And my point wasn't to agitate for war, it was actually the exact opposite. I have no idea how we can reconcile with these people who will look you in the eye and swear that up is down and anyone who says otherwise is a traitor or an idiot. Facts are facts, and anyone who says different is either lying or deluded, and either one is dangerous in numbers. So I'm wondering how 2 good sized groups of people can continue to co-exist and progress, when they can't even agree on what facts are?

 

[georges]

Trump is a timeshare, currently being occupied by Putin's Russia & Saudi Arabia, he's a fucking laughing stock no one respects, merely enjoying the power of the leverage of the office he holds, and you TrumpTards are fools.

You seem to forget that your dear community organizer Obama who exchanged five islamic terrorists in exchange of Bowe Bergdahl , tried to implement a fucked up health care systems which was copy pasted model on the french healthcare system, licked the Iranian's ass with a dangerous nuclear deal and gave 1 billion $ in cash to them, didn't bring back manufacturing plants to USA and didn't care about veterans nor about law enforcement personnel. Obama devotees are dellusional and out of touch with the reality fools. Obama was a laughing stock at all levels and the economy was nowhere flourishing as it is today with Trump.

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

You seem to forget that your dear community organizer Obama who exchanged five islamic terrorists in exchange of Bowe Bergdahl , tried to implement a fucked up health care systems which was copy pasted model on the french healthcare system, licked the Iranian's ass with a dangerous nuclear deal and gave 1 billion $ in cash to them, didn't bring back manufacturing plants to USA and didn't care about veterans nor about law enforcement personnel. Obama devotees are dellusional and out of touch with the reality fools. Obama was a laughing stock at all levels and the economy was nowhere flourishing as it is today with Trump.

So blind.
So easily swayed.
Such a fool.

 

[FOUser#4510856320198a]

You seem to forget that your dear community organizer Obama who exchanged five islamic terrorists in exchange of Bowe Bergdahl , tried to implement a fucked up health care systems which was copy pasted model on the french healthcare system, licked the Iranian's ass with a dangerous nuclear deal and gave 1 billion $ in cash to them, didn't bring back manufacturing plants to USA and didn't care about veterans nor about law enforcement personnel. Obama devotees are dellusional and out of touch with the reality fools. Obama was a laughing stock at all levels and the economy was nowhere flourishing as it is today with Trump.

AND BINGO WAS HIS NAME-O! :clap:

:rofl2: He just completely pants-ed you, in front of the whole school, too. :rofl2:

 

[georges]

So blind.
So easily swayed.
Such a fool.

I am not the one who supported the socialist presidency of Obama during 8 years and neither do I need the leftist bs mainstream media diatribes and constant whining to make my mind. :crybaby: So please speak for yourself.

 

[xfire]

He just completely pants-ed you, in front of the whole school, too.

Any autistic idiot can stand in front of the school and shout like Corky, interesting fact, only the kids in Special Ed clapped.

:rofl:

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

I am not the one who supported the socialist presidency of Obama during 8 years and neither do I need the leftist bs mainstream media diatribes and constant whining to make my mind. :crybaby: So please speak for yourself.

You have lost sight of reality.
You flail in the dark spewing lies you have heard on propaganda channels.
If something doesn’t fit you ignore that fact.
Just sad.
Inform yourself.

 

[Johan]

socialist presidency of Obama

Unless you consider bailing-out wall street, not prosecuting wall-street criminals, refusing to increase the minimum wage, making Bush's tax-cuts permanent and breaking deportation records ( he deported even more people than Trump ) to be socialist policies...

 

[mongo18]

Now we have mcconnell, graham, and a whole bunch of other republican senators who have announced very publicly that this impeachment trial in the senate is already rigged and they're going to vote to acquit no matter what charges and evidence are presented. The system of checks and balances that the US system relies on has been subverted, and the one mechanism for protecting the country from a criminal president has been broken by senators publicly vowing to break their oath of office with no regard for the consequences.

What happens after that? Maybe the south was right, and the civil war never ended, it just went cold, and this is the USA losing. When the majority are powerless against a minority government, democracy has already been lost. The question now is, can the US get it back?