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Iran leads calls for Israel to give up nuclear weapons

Little Red Wagon Repairman

Step in my shop and I'll fix yours too.
Israel having nuclear weapons makes Iran want them which makes Saudi Arabia want them and so on. Israel joining the NPT, renouncing possession of nuclear weapons, and being as open and transparent in inspections as they would expect rival nations to be seems like a step forward possibly toward a nuclear-free-weapons zone in the Middle East.

http://news.yahoo.com/iran-leads-calls-israel-nuclear-weapons-183322471.html

Iran leads calls for Israel to give up nuclear weapons
AFP
April 27, 2015 2:33 PM


United Nations (United States) (AFP) - Iran on Monday led calls by non-aligned nations for Israel to give up its nuclear weapons as a major conference got underway on advancing prospects for a nuclear-free world.

Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif addressed the conference on the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) ahead of a meeting with US Secretary of State John Kerry on the landmark nuclear deal reached this month.

Zarif insisted that the 120-nation Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) is demanding that "Israel, the only one in the region that has neither joined the NPT nor declared its intention to do so, (...) renounce possession of nuclear weapons."

Israel is considered a nuclear-armed state although it has never acknowledged its status and has refused to join the NPT, a treaty that imposes obligations on signatories.

Israel is sending an observer to the month-long NPT conference for the first time in 20 years.

Zarif said non-aligned nations are also seeking "as a matter of high priority" to set up a nuclear-free-weapons zone in the Middle East.

The planned zone was agreed at the previous conference in 2010, but there was no action on the proposal.

- Back to the Cold War -

The 190 signatories of the NPT opened a month-long conference to review progress over the past five years in reducing the nuclear threat with much of the focus centered on the fate of US and Russian stockpiles.

UN chief Ban Ki-moon implicitly criticized the United States and Russia for failing to advance nuclear disarmament, a setback he said marked a return to a Cold War mindset.

In a speech delivered by his deputy Jan Eliasson, Ban said a nuclear-free world was the "historic imperative of our time."

"I am deeply concerned that over the last five years this process seems to have stalled," the UN leader said.

The secretary-general complained that instead of stepping up nuclear disarmament "there has been a dangerous return to Cold War mentalities."

Since it entered into force in 1970, the world has seen a drastic cut in warheads, but UN officials have raised alarm over the failure to move toward deeper cuts.

The United States and Russia have made little headway in reducing stockpiles since 2011, and the crisis over Ukraine is stoking distrust, dimming prospects for future cooperation.

The NPT is seen as a grand bargain between five nuclear powers -- Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States -- and non-nuclear states which agreed to give up atomic weapon ambitions in exchange for disarmament pledges.

Ban said the action plans agreed at the last conference must be implemented, or the NPT "could risk fading in relevance."
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
Would only be fair. But I don't see Israel (And the USA, for that) accepting to sign treaties like that any time soon.
 

Little Red Wagon Repairman

Step in my shop and I'll fix yours too.
Would only be fair. But I don't see Israel (And the USA, for that) accepting to sign treaties like that any time soon.

We give Israel a nice warm blanket at the UN whether Republicans or Democrats are in charge. Our politicians are bought and paid for.

2116628215.jpg
 
The fundamental difference is that Israel has never threatened to wipe Iran from the map whilst Iran constantly threatens to do that to Israel, all it takes is for a religious fanatic to seize power in Iran and they would not hestitate to nuke Israel and clense the region of Jews and Christians. I would love a nuclear weapon free world but the sad reality is that Israel needs the deterrent when there is a nation our there who openly calls for their destruction.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Since the United States has declared that a nuclear attack on Israel would be considered the same as an attack on the United States, I don't see that the Israelis need to have a nuclear arsenal on hand.
 
Since the United States has declared that a nuclear attack on Israel would be considered the same as an attack on the United States, I don't see that the Israelis need to have a nuclear arsenal on hand.
Will future presidents enforce that? I think the Jews of Israel want their protection in their own hands as history has taught them that anti-Semitism never goes away and when conditions get bad in any country the Jews are often the first to get blamed for it.
 

Little Red Wagon Repairman

Step in my shop and I'll fix yours too.
IMO, if one country attacks another I think it is more likely that Israel attacks Iran instead of Iran attacking Israel. Netanyahu is not exactly seen as a peaceful man either. Avigdor Lieberman, Israel's Minister of Foreign Affairs, is even worse and more intolerant. Israel having and hiding the fact they have nuclear weapons makes things difficult in our negotiations with Iran about their nuclear program. I assume Iran wants to survive and be able to protect themselves without having to rely on someone else as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/06/w...-tough-tone-on-possible-iran-strike.html?_r=0

Netanyahu Says He’d Go It Alone on Striking Iran

By JODI RUDORENNOV. 5, 2012


JERUSALEM — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Monday reiterated his willingness to attack the Iranian nuclear program without support from Washington or the world, returning to an aggressive posture that he had largely abandoned since his United Nations speech in September.

“When David Ben-Gurion declared the foundation of the state of Israel, was it done with American approval?” Mr. Netanyahu asked in an interview broadcast on Israel’s Channel 2 on Monday night. “When Levi Eshkol was forced to act in order to loosen the siege before 1967, was it done with the Americans’ support?

“If someone sits here as the prime minister of Israel and he can’t take action on matters that are cardinal to the existence of this country, its future and its security, and he is totally dependent on receiving approval from others, then he is not worthy of leading,” Mr. Netanyahu added. “I can make these decisions.”

Though American officials, including President Obama, have always acknowledged that Israel ultimately has the right to decide how to defend itself, Mr. Netanyahu’s tough tone and timing — on the eve of the American presidential election — are sure to reignite rifts with Washington over how best to prevent Tehran from developing a nuclear bomb.

As has been the case over the past two years, however, it is impossible to know whether his hawkish words are harbingers of deeds or part of a strategic campaign to scare nations into increasing economic and diplomatic pressure on Iran.

“I am not eager to go to war,” Mr. Netanyahu said in the seven-minute interview. “I have been creating very heavy pressure, and part of this pressure comes from the knowledge some of the most powerful nations in the world have that we are serious. This isn’t a show, this is not false.”

Besides the creation of diplomatic tensions if Israel were to act alone against Washington’s wishes, there is a more practical concern: the Israeli military lacks the capacity to penetrate all of Iran’s underground nuclear facilities, and thus could most likely only delay the potential development of a nuclear weapon by a few years. The United States has bunker-busting bombs that could do far more damage.

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The interview was broadcast on “Fact,” a program often compared to “60 Minutes,” at the end of an hourlong documentary on Israeli decision making regarding Iran over the past decade. The program highlighted the opposition of Israel’s own security establishment to a unilateral strike, saying that Mr. Netanyahu and his defense minister, Ehud Barak, ordered the Israel Defense Forces to prepare for an imminent operation in 2010 but were rebuffed by the chiefs of their military and international intelligence service.

Among those interviewed was Ehud Olmert, the former prime minister currently contemplating a political comeback. He accused Mr. Netanyahu of “spitting in the face” of Mr. Obama and “doing anything possible to stop him from being elected president of the United States,” a harsh critique in a country that regards safeguarding its special relationship with Washington as a sacred priority.

“What’s all this talk, that we will decide alone on our fate and that we won’t take anybody else into consideration?” said Mr. Olmert, who is expected to make Mr. Netanyahu’s relationship with Mr. Obama a mainstay of his campaign if he runs. “Can someone please explain to me with which airplanes we will attack if we decide to attack alone, against the opinion of others — airplanes that we built here in Israel? With which bombs will we bomb, bombs that we made by ourselves? With which special technologies will we do it, those that we made by ourselves or those that we received from other sources?”

But when shown a video of Mr. Olmert’s retort, Mr. Netanyahu was not cowed. “If what I just heard is that on this matter which threatens our very existence, we should just say, we should just hand the keys over to the Americans and tell them, ‘You decide whether or not to destroy this project, which threatens our very existence,’ well, that’s one possible approach, but it’s not my approach,” he said. “My approach is that if we can have others take care of it, or if we can get to a point where no one has to, that’s fine; but if we have no choice and we find ourselves with our backs against the wall, then we will do what we have to do in order to defend ourselves.”

After years in which Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Barak pursued the Iranian threat in close partnership, the prime minister now seems virtually alone in his defiant stance, as other leaders attempt to distinguish their positions ahead of Israeli elections on Jan. 22. While Mr. Netanyahu said in his Sept. 27 speech at the United Nations that the critical moment for preventing Iran from developing a weapon would most likely come next spring, Mr. Barak last week pushed the timetable back further, and offered a new explanation of Israel’s reduced sense of urgency.

The crux of Mr. Barak’s argument, made in an interview with Britain’s Daily Telegraph, was based on reports by the International Atomic Energy Agency, the most recent in August, showing that Iran had 189 kilograms, about 416 pounds, of uranium enriched to the 20 percent level — from which it could relatively easily be further enriched to weapons grade. Roughly half of that was diverted to civilian use in a form that could not be easily turned into bomb fuel. But Iran has continued production and by most estimates, at current rates, would have roughly a bomb’s worth by next summer.

That “allows contemplating delaying the moment of truth by 8 to 10 months,” Mr. Barak said.

But several high-ranking Israeli officials and analysts said that Mr. Barak’s explanation was overly simplistic. While the diversion was clearly a factor, they said, it was not a new development: the nuclear agency had reported a similar transfer of enriched uranium in May, and that had hardly cooled the rhetoric of either Mr. Barak or Mr. Netanyahu through the summer. And both men have long warned of secret centrifuges that could be spinning without outside knowledge, enabling rapid replenishment of the enriched stockpile.

“Netanyahu backed away because he was getting the message that he was going too far and this could do damage, this was not helpful either to Israel or to stopping Iran,” said Emily Landau, an Iran expert at the Institute for National Security Studies at Tel Aviv University. “It might be easier for Barak to now say that it’s because of the technical issue, but it’s not a real issue. Relations with the United States is a much more substantial, real issue, but it’s more difficult to give that as your explanation.”

Graham Allison, a Harvard professor of government who specializes in international security, called Mr. Barak’s statement “kind of a convenient excuse,” adding that “the reason they really blinked” was that the prime minister was unable to convince a majority of his cabinet of the wisdom of acting alone.

“The big phenomenon here is what I’ve called the revolt of the Israeli security barons,” Mr. Allison said. “I can’t think of a prior Israeli government or an analogous case anywhere where there’s such a clear gap between a prime minister on one hand and his security establishment on the other.”
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Will future presidents enforce that? I think the Jews of Israel want their protection in their own hands as history has taught them that anti-Semitism never goes away and when conditions get bad in any country the Jews are often the first to get blamed for it.

True, there's no guarantee on that. But with it being written into U.S. law, by way of the Cranston Amendment, that the U.S. is obliged to support Israel monetarily no matter what, the President has little say in the matter. The Israeli lobby is the most powerful political lobby in the United States. So while something could change in the distant future, I seriously doubt that it will in my lifetime.

And considering the war crimes that have taken place in Gaza (that will go completely unpunished), I can't say that I blame the Iranians for their position... though I have no love for the Iranian leadership.
 
The fundamental difference is that Israel has never threatened to wipe Iran from the map whilst Iran constantly threatens to do that to Israel, all it takes is for a religious fanatic to seize power in Iran and they would not hestitate to nuke Israel and clense the region of Jews and Christians. I would love a nuclear weapon free world but the sad reality is that Israel needs the deterrent when there is a nation our there who openly calls for their destruction.

Amadinejad never said the words "wipe Israel off the map". It was a mistranslation from the Persian translator.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...d-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html
 
As much as Iranian rhetoric is against Israel they are more likely to strike Saudi Arabia if anyone, they are already fighting a proxy war against them in Yemen (they support the Shite Houthis rebels who have been bombed by the Saudis) and who knows if this will spill over into an out all sectarian war between Sunnis and Shias, hardcore Sunnis like ISIS consider the Shias to be heretics and by exterminating them (they execute all Shia prisoners) they believe they are carrying out God's will. I'm just saying it could get very messy and when you have radicals who don't fear death and think they will be rewarded for their actions in heaven rational thinking can go out the window.
 

Little Red Wagon Repairman

Step in my shop and I'll fix yours too.
True, there's no guarantee on that. But with it being written into U.S. law, by way of the Cranston Amendment, that the U.S. is obliged to support Israel monetarily no matter what, the President has little say in the matter. The Israeli lobby is the most powerful political lobby in the United States. So while something could change in the distant future, I seriously doubt that it will in my lifetime.

Hey Rey, do you know how much money and other aid we give Israel per year? Is there a running tally of how much we've given them overall? Also, since the US and Israel are such good friends can you tell us how Israel reciprocates in the friendship? Do you know which politicians have been corrupted the most by AIPAC?
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Hey Rey, do you know how much money and other aid we give Israel per year? Is there a running tally of how much we've given them overall? Also, since the US and Israel are such good friends can you tell us how Israel reciprocates in the friendship? Do you know which politicians have been corrupted the most by AIPAC?

Finding reliable sources for such data isn't easy. But yes, there are a number of sites that attempt to track such aid, both on an annual basis and the running total. Just from memory, I seem to recall that the total (which I *think* includes loan guarantees) is around a quarter of a trillion dollars now. Without the loan guarantees, most of the estimates I've seen are in the $150 billion range. But there are so many slippery, backdoor deals hidden under the Cranston Amendment (public/private entities and partnerships) that it's hard to say which estimates are accurate. I don't recall what the total is annually. Around $10 billion maybe? :dunno:

As far as which politicians have been most corrupted by AIPAC, well, I think you can pretty much just play pin the tail on the jack ass traitor with any of the prominent national leaders in both of the two major parties. Some more than others (like Ted Cruz), but it seems that when it comes to Israel, they all know to sing the same song. The neocon and Evangelical factions of the GOP seem to have the most traitors to the Republic though.

BTW, I'm still waiting for my Bank of America/U.S. Trust PW banker to offer me the same (or even a similar) deal as Israel has with the U.S. I mean, hell, as long as they agree to always lend me at least enough money to make my loan payments every year (forever), how could I ever miss a payment??? What's a modest $10 million personal loan between friends (are the folks at BofA not my friends? :(), so I can do one last big real estate deal before I hang up my spurs? Come on! I'm good for it... as long as they're good for it. And if anybody who's not my friend tries to screw up my deal, BofA should call their loans and cancel their business checking accounts. That's what friends do for friends, right? What will I do for BofA? Well, not a damn thing. It doesn't work that way. They're my friend. I'm not their friend.

And this, amigos, explains why Israel has NEVER missed a loan payment. :hatsoff: You're welcome.
 

georges

Moderator
Staff member
I hope Israel wrecks the shit out of Iran like they did with Irak by destroying the Ozirak nuclear plant
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
I hope Israel wrecks the shit out of Iran like they did with Irak by destroying the Ozirak nuclear plant

As long as they do it with your money and not mine, I'm OK with that. But since I know they'll be doing it with my money and not yours, I'm not OK with that.

All Americans who are in favor of transferring all of the financial obligations inherent in the Cranston Amendment to France, raise your right hand. Yep, yep, yep, gotcha, yep, yep, another one over there, yep, I see ya, yep, yep. OK then... looks like the ayes have it. Georges, they're all yours now. We'll send you the transfer paperwork (into financial slavery) next week and you can pop a check for $250 billion, made out to the U.S Treasury, in the mail anytime within the next 30 days. Enjoy your new eternal friendship.
 
If Netanyahu goes alone on striking Iran, I say Israel should face the consequences of that alone. Wether Iran, Egytp, Jordan, Syria, Arabia, Qatar or any other country retaliates, no western country should be of any assistance to Israel.
 

Little Red Wagon Repairman

Step in my shop and I'll fix yours too.
Finding reliable sources for such data isn't easy. But yes, there are a number of sites that attempt to track such aid, both on an annual basis and the running total. Just from memory, I seem to recall that the total (which I *think* includes loan guarantees) is around a quarter of a trillion dollars now. Without the loan guarantees, most of the estimates I've seen are in the $150 billion range. But there are so many slippery, backdoor deals hidden under the Cranston Amendment (public/private entities and partnerships) that it's hard to say which estimates are accurate. I don't recall what the total is annually. Around $10 billion maybe? :dunno:

As far as which politicians have been most corrupted by AIPAC, well, I think you can pretty much just play pin the tail on the jack ass traitor with any of the prominent national leaders in both of the two major parties. Some more than others (like Ted Cruz), but it seems that when it comes to Israel, they all know to sing the same song. The neocon and Evangelical factions of the GOP seem to have the most traitors to the Republic though.

BTW, I'm still waiting for my Bank of America/U.S. Trust PW banker to offer me the same (or even a similar) deal as Israel has with the U.S. I mean, hell, as long as they agree to always lend me at least enough money to make my loan payments every year (forever), how could I ever miss a payment??? What's a modest $10 million personal loan between friends (are the folks at BofA not my friends? :(), so I can do one last big real estate deal before I hang up my spurs? Come on! I'm good for it... as long as they're good for it. And if anybody who's not my friend tries to screw up my deal, BofA should call their loans and cancel their business checking accounts. That's what friends do for friends, right? What will I do for BofA? Well, not a damn thing. It doesn't work that way. They're my friend. I'm not their friend.

And this, amigos, explains why Israel has NEVER missed a loan payment. :hatsoff: You're welcome.

So we see them as a friend but they see us as a host?

As long as they do it with your money and not mine, I'm OK with that. But since I know they'll be doing it with my money and not yours, I'm not OK with that.

Same here. I wouldn't have such a problem with the Israelis if we weren't so closely tied to them bankrolling them. Wouldn't it be more patriotic to keep the money here and use it for things America needs? Israel seems like the ultimate welfare queen waving the anti-Semite card instead of the race card. Benjamin Netanyahu plays a pretty good Al Sharpton for the Israelis too.

If Netanyahu goes alone on striking Iran, I say Israel should face the consequences of that alone. Wether Iran, Egytp, Jordan, Syria, Arabia, Qatar or any other country retaliates, no western country should be of any assistance to Israel.

Agreed.
 
The fundamental difference is that Israel has never threatened to wipe Iran from the map whilst Iran constantly threatens to do that to Israel, all it takes is for a religious fanatic to seize power in Iran and they would not hesitate to nuke Israel and cleanse the region of Jews and Christians. I would love a nuclear weapon free world but the sad reality is that Israel needs the deterrent when there is a nation out there who openly calls for their destruction.

Agreed.

Hey Rey, do you know how much money and other aid we give Israel per year? Is there a running tally of how much we've given them overall?

Here's a chart dating all the way back to 1949 https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/U.S._Assistance_to_Israel1.html

The average per year thus far in this century has been around 2.5 billion.
Under the supposed Israeli hater Obama that total has eclipsed 3 billion each of the last 4 years.


On a positive note I'd like to commend people in here for not supporting this. Wrong is wrong.

Yep.
 
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